RE: More on the mini-Cayenne
Discussion
Two issues become confused in such a discussion as this; the ubiquity of the brand and then the type of car they produce.
Personally I have no problem with the type of car provided it is developed well and properly reflects the fun and sporting virtues of Porsche. I do however take issue with the ubiquity of the brand. I suppose ever since the mid-80s Porsche have been moving ever further away from a specialist sports car maker. The numerous 911s and Boxsters that Prosche already produces has already eliminated the rarity of Porsche badge in many parts of the country. I've owned more than a dozen Porsche's but for some years now there's been nothing Porsche makes that really gets me interested.
I agree that if they made this a really innovative coupe sports buggy with amazing versatility and a fun chassis/engine then I'd be interested.
Personally I have no problem with the type of car provided it is developed well and properly reflects the fun and sporting virtues of Porsche. I do however take issue with the ubiquity of the brand. I suppose ever since the mid-80s Porsche have been moving ever further away from a specialist sports car maker. The numerous 911s and Boxsters that Prosche already produces has already eliminated the rarity of Porsche badge in many parts of the country. I've owned more than a dozen Porsche's but for some years now there's been nothing Porsche makes that really gets me interested.
I agree that if they made this a really innovative coupe sports buggy with amazing versatility and a fun chassis/engine then I'd be interested.
shoestring7 said:
DoctorD,
The Porsche company was an engineering consultancy first, in the 30's they worked on various racers as well as what became the Beetle. The first post war product was a sports car built in Austria. The tractors came later as in those days there was more demand for tractors than sports cars.
SS7
The tractors are back! Burberry interior anyone?
DoctorD said:
Strange reactions. This is precisely what Porsche should have done in the first place when considering building an SUV, since making a Porsche that weighs 2.5 tonnes was an oxymoron. A lighter, purely 4 seater SUV aimed at those with a sporting/active lifestyle seems more true to Porsche's brand values than a luxury SUV. This way they should be able to build it nearer the 1700kg mark, giving it half decent fuel economy and even better handling.
The only reason I can see why Porsche built the Cayenne was to platform share with VW and avoid the heavy up-front tooling costs. Now that they've got the money and the know-how they 'should' build a much smaller and more sporting SUV and then slowly phase out the Cayenne.
And as far as degrading the heritage of Porsche, that's ironic, since Porsche started out building tractors and designing the VW Beetle. But Porsche has always been known for engineering excellence and design, so if they can build a mini-SUV that meets these values then good luck to them.
1700kg?? Sod that, more like 1200 kg would do the trick, with a nice big engine. If Porsche did a Rav4 with twice the power then I'd be all over it.
It'd be fun to see Porsche build something like this, but light weight!!! Take the wind out of the anti-4x4 types sails.
cyberface said:
1700kg?? Sod that, more like 1200 kg would do the trick, with a nice big engine. If Porsche did a Rav4 with twice the power then I'd be all over it.
It'd be fun to see Porsche build something like this, but light weight!!! Take the wind out of the anti-4x4 types sails.
That's going to be difficult, considering Bowler's Wildcat weighs 1700-1800 kg... Unless you're not really looking for unbreakable design.
If Little Britain were invloved in the mini-KN project:
Computer says no....
Do u fink there'll be a feem toon. i mite write the feem toon, sing the feem toon.
... so you're sure u want a Mini KN? Yah. OK, but u said u didn't like the KN. Yah, I know, I want that one. I don't like KNs.
911fan said:
Porsche making their brand more mass-available is no wrong thing its own right, but surely too much category pouncing will dilute the meaning of Porsche?
For mini-things they should do it under a diffusion brand. Or upstream they should do an Uber Porsche brand.
Leave the current Porsche name alone!!
That is why IMO Porsche shouldn't have called the Cayenne a Porsche (of styled it as one, for that matter).
In the late '60s when Porsche wanted a small, sub-911 mid-engined sports car, they called it the VW-Porsche 914, signifying its use of VW componants (can you imagine if they'd done that on the Boxster?!).
Even so, the Cayenne owes all but its body (which is hideous) and some of its engines to the Toureg. This is why IMO Porsche would have been better calling it an Audi-Porsche or even a VW-Porsche (given VWs insistance on rivalling its own luxury products).
Still, Porsche kicked themselves very hard in the balls in regard to the Cayenne. Brand dilution gone crazy, and people would still have bought it if it was an Audi or a VW with a Porsche engine.
I mean, when Isuzu wanted to produce a go-faster Trooper, they called upon Lotus to tune it and called it the Bighorn. They didn't try to pass it off as a Lotus itself.
Twincam16 said:
In the late '60s when Porsche wanted a small, sub-911 mid-engined sports car, they called it the VW-Porsche 914, signifying its use of VW componants (can you imagine if they'd done that on the Boxster?!).
some 914's used VW engines some used Porsche engines.
Do you think the the Elise shouldnt be called a Lotus as it uses a Rover/Toyota engines
911fan said:
If Little Britain were invloved in the mini-KN project:
Computer says no....
Do u fink there'll be a feem toon. i mite write the feem toon, sing the feem toon.
... so you're sure u want a Mini KN? Yah. OK, but u said u didn't like the KN. Yah, I know, I want that one. I don't like KNs.
I dont like the Cayenne much, but I saw a white Cayenne turbo the other day.
It was absolutely covered in black road grime, had been lowered, and had "blackout" windows. As it passed and drove away, there were just these four vast exhaust pipes at the back.
I thought to myself, hmmm.....
That looks quite agressive actually!
Overall, Porsche went through a pretty difficult patch in the early to mid 90's. I don't blame them for doing what they are.
Good luck to them.
Seems to me they can't do right for doing wrong... comes back to the age old argument that unless its a 911 or has its engine in the back then it isn't 'proper'..
Very sad.
I don't think there is one car company out there that can't have something derogatory aimed at it. If you want to all concentrate on the -ve's fine....me...I'd rather concentrate on the +ve's... an independant company, rich in all kinds of motoring heritage, making profit, assisting other manufacturers, providing a 1st class product. My only criticisms would be..Cayman or its ilk should be a bit more affordable (new product line?) and the designers could do with living on the 'edge' a bit more stylistically.
Very sad.
I don't think there is one car company out there that can't have something derogatory aimed at it. If you want to all concentrate on the -ve's fine....me...I'd rather concentrate on the +ve's... an independant company, rich in all kinds of motoring heritage, making profit, assisting other manufacturers, providing a 1st class product. My only criticisms would be..Cayman or its ilk should be a bit more affordable (new product line?) and the designers could do with living on the 'edge' a bit more stylistically.
Porsche has to make money, or it wouldn't be here.
But everyone knows they already have made, a lot of money.
Spending a little money sorting out or even acknowledging the known problems like RMS would be first on my list.. .. .. speak to any OPC or specialist they will tell you they see a lot of boxters and some 996’s with this problem.
Having a secondary brand:- thats why they bought 20% of VW no?
It is a sad fact that capitalism has already took over Porsche.
I may of already invested my well earned cash into this brand because as a kid I had a 911 on my bedroom wall but Im sure they don’t give a F*** margin is the motive.. .. .. And will ultimately be their demise.
Panamera, on the other hand, I like and would consider in a few years when available, as long as im not spending 120 grand on a VW… … … if that’s the case ill buy a Bentley.
But everyone knows they already have made, a lot of money.
Spending a little money sorting out or even acknowledging the known problems like RMS would be first on my list.. .. .. speak to any OPC or specialist they will tell you they see a lot of boxters and some 996’s with this problem.
Having a secondary brand:- thats why they bought 20% of VW no?
It is a sad fact that capitalism has already took over Porsche.
I may of already invested my well earned cash into this brand because as a kid I had a 911 on my bedroom wall but Im sure they don’t give a F*** margin is the motive.. .. .. And will ultimately be their demise.
Panamera, on the other hand, I like and would consider in a few years when available, as long as im not spending 120 grand on a VW… … … if that’s the case ill buy a Bentley.
...But I realy like (lots) the idea of a mini-cayenne, if it could be a little bigger than the X3. Please consider wath a wonderful car the cayenne is BUT, ... it´s a little to big ( remember it was made fro USA) for Europe, city streets and small roads. Considre one with 15 to 20 cm less (long) and 5 to 8 cm less (transverse)...
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