Poor demand for cayman
Discussion
This Finance commentary is absolutely correct. That's why the premium over a TT (or anything else) doesn't matter. Audi are rumoured (or is it fact now?) to be slotting that RS4 V8 into the next generation TT and that's bound to push its price up to Cayman levels in any case.
I think someone else has commented that Porsche aren't stupid. Their investment in the Cayman is likely to be cost effective with a quick payback, given that the Boxster is the starting point.
I have no doubt that a lot of buyers want the cahcet of a brnad new Porsche sitting in their drive - they won't want to buy a secondhand 996 or 997. They are also unlikely to be contributors to this forum.
I think someone else has commented that Porsche aren't stupid. Their investment in the Cayman is likely to be cost effective with a quick payback, given that the Boxster is the starting point.
I have no doubt that a lot of buyers want the cahcet of a brnad new Porsche sitting in their drive - they won't want to buy a secondhand 996 or 997. They are also unlikely to be contributors to this forum.
I cant help thinking back to the 968 when I think of the the Cayman. The 968 S was a fine car but carried a huge premium that put it close (in comparitive terms) to the 911. The consequence, poor sales record. Then Porsche introduced the clubsport version and in comparison that sold like hot cakes. I can't help but think the Cayman could go the same way (if they produce a CS version).
I still find it a hard pill to swallow that the Cayman is priced higher than it's soft topped sibling (engine difference included)Yes of course it's going to be better than the Boxster it has the benifit of later technology. If you fitted the Boxster S with the Cayman engine which would you expect to be the higher priced?? Some might say that the Cayman has the engine the Boxster should have had in the first place.
lemon yella rs said:
I cant help thinking back to the 968 when I think of the the Cayman. The 968 S was a fine car but carried a huge premium that put it close (in comparitive terms) to the 911. The consequence, poor sales record. Then Porsche introduced the clubsport version and in comparison that sold like hot cakes. I can't help but think the Cayman could go the same way (if they produce a CS version).
I still find it a hard pill to swallow that the Cayman is priced higher than it's soft topped sibling (engine difference included)Yes of course it's going to be better than the Boxster it has the benifit of later technology. If you fitted the Boxster S with the Cayman engine which would you expect to be the higher priced?? Some might say that the Cayman has the engine the Boxster should have had in the first place.
Agreed..
garyhun said:
Priced similar to a boxster I think it would be a big success and still make a good long term profit for porsche.
As it is I don't think anyone would buy a year old cayman against a new boxster so also bearing in mind dealer mark ups sellers of caymans will be in for a nasty shock!
SparkS.... YOu are wrong - I would definately buy a year old Cayman over a Boxster as I do not want a soft top anymore and the Cayman fills all the boxes for me. As I said in earlier post...it's all a very personal thing!
Ok fair enough let me re-phrase. I think in a year or two when the cayman is no longer the new model, most people (prob. not enthusiasts like on this board but your average boxster / cayman owner) would go for a new boxster for the same money as a year plus old cayman. As lemon yell rs said it reminds me of the 968. You can guarantee there will be a cut price cayman out in a while....
spark_s said:
Priced similar to a boxster I think it would be a big success and still make a good long term profit for porsche.
As it is I don't think anyone would buy a year old cayman against a new boxster so also bearing in mind dealer mark ups sellers of caymans will be in for a nasty shock!
SparkS.... YOu are wrong - I would definately buy a year old Cayman over a Boxster as I do not want a soft top anymore and the Cayman fills all the boxes for me. As I said in earlier post...it's all a very personal thing!
Ok fair enough let me re-phrase. I think in a year or two when the cayman is no longer the new model, most people (prob. not enthusiasts like on this board but your average boxster / cayman owner) would go for a new boxster for the same money as a year plus old cayman. As lemon yell rs said it reminds me of the 968. You can guarantee there will be a cut price cayman out in a while....
Got ya and agree!
In answer to question regarding the price difference of the Cayman over the Boxster a few years down the line, you only have to look at the current line up to see if Porsche buyers are willing to pay extra for the "S" badge on 911's and Boxster’s.
Does the Boxster S command a premium over the plain Boxster in the second-hand market? Does the C4S cost more than a second-hand C4? Of course it does, they don't all level out and cost about the same amount in a few years. So why should the Cayman be any different?
As much as you want the Cayman to fail Rob, Porsche will have spent a lot of time and money trying to find out before hand what the car buying public will and will not buy, Porsche have put their money where their mouth is and think they can sell a car in between the Boxster and 911, who are we to argue?
>> Edited by bumcrack on Wednesday 7th December 18:16
Does the Boxster S command a premium over the plain Boxster in the second-hand market? Does the C4S cost more than a second-hand C4? Of course it does, they don't all level out and cost about the same amount in a few years. So why should the Cayman be any different?
As much as you want the Cayman to fail Rob, Porsche will have spent a lot of time and money trying to find out before hand what the car buying public will and will not buy, Porsche have put their money where their mouth is and think they can sell a car in between the Boxster and 911, who are we to argue?
>> Edited by bumcrack on Wednesday 7th December 18:16
Just one of the silent many who will vote with their wallets when all is said and done.
The cayman could have been the perfect car for me if it was not overpriced and underpowered
I could have lived with the bland looks at the end of the day.
Also we are here just to chat when all said and done,so if it is a winner goodluck to porsche,for those who have bought and are happy,great and as for me i'm sure i can live with the fact that porsche never made the cayman the way i would have liked.
The cayman could have been the perfect car for me if it was not overpriced and underpowered
I could have lived with the bland looks at the end of the day.
Also we are here just to chat when all said and done,so if it is a winner goodluck to porsche,for those who have bought and are happy,great and as for me i'm sure i can live with the fact that porsche never made the cayman the way i would have liked.
rob05 said:
Just one of the silent many who will vote with their wallets when all is said and done.
The cayman could have been the perfect car for me if it was not overpriced and underpowered
I could have lived with the bland looks at the end of the day.
Also we are here just to chat when all said and done,so if it is a winner goodluck to porsche,for those who have bought and are happy,great and as for me i'm sure i can live with the fact that porsche never made the cayman the way i would have liked.
This hits it on the head as to why it's such an subjective subject and that to try to get agreement is nigh on impossible..... and probably undesirable. I love the looks and happy with power but not price. Rob thinks it looks bland! As he says...we're here to chat.
bumcrack said:
In answer to question regarding the price difference of the Cayman over the Boxster a few years down the line, you only have to look at the current line up to see if Porsche buyers are willing to pay extra for the "S" badge on 911's and Boxster’s.
Does the Boxster S command a premium over the plain Boxster in the second-hand market? Does the C4S cost more than a second-hand C4? Of course it does, they don't all level out and cost about the same amount in a few years. So why should the Cayman be any different?
As much as you want the Cayman to fail Rob, Porsche will have spent a lot of time and money trying to find out before hand what the car buying public will and will not buy, Porsche have put their money where their mouth is and think they can sell a car in between the Boxster and 911, who are we to argue?
>> Edited by bumcrack on Wednesday 7th December 18:16
By the same logic, do convertible 997s fetch a preimum over coupe's? They put a roof on a car that was always designed as a convertible, so it will always be a compromise in terms of weight and design, then add a token amount more power and tada, another 5 - 10k please.
It'll sell whilst the image / hype is good. I'm just trying to work out who will buy a cheaper 2.7 (or 3.2?) cayman, presumably with a token 10-20bhp over the equivalent Boxster - all for the bargin price of 5 - 10k more...
I can begin to understand what Porsche were thinking...
1) Initially the thought was to create a £30k Cayman. But theyt soon recognised that the it would be in massive demand-perhaps one that they would be unable to fulfil and if they did then they would transish the brand further (having already managed to make it rather rusty through introducing the monstrosity that is the Cayanne).
2) So it had to be more expensive than the plain old Boxster-but by how much....well enough to keep Boxster sales going-after all this model provides pure profit (its development costs having been already written off..)
3) So they made it expensive but just at the point that the supply meets demand to yeild the greatest profit (ie optimum price elasticity of demand).
4) Now looking at the 997, they have also made the Cayman expensive enough for it not to be a substitute for a basic 997 ie its still expensive enough not to be considered a bargain over a 997. Again, this doesnt canibalise sales for the expensive a(and therefore more profitable model).
Its pure strategy, finance and marketing genuis..based on some whizzbang capacity and profit modelling across Porsche's entire portfilio. The irony is that the Cayman is actually a £30k car in real terms (as it was always designed to be) but this pricing strategy has made it into a £50k which is quite crap for real enthusiasts (who are not as sensitive to marketing hype). What will happen is that the used market (which is generally more price elasticity sensitive) will down price this car in a big way-just as it does with overpriced Mercedes (where the new price premium over brands such as Audi and BMW is quickly erroded).
>> Edited by kamal996 on Thursday 8th December 10:29
1) Initially the thought was to create a £30k Cayman. But theyt soon recognised that the it would be in massive demand-perhaps one that they would be unable to fulfil and if they did then they would transish the brand further (having already managed to make it rather rusty through introducing the monstrosity that is the Cayanne).
2) So it had to be more expensive than the plain old Boxster-but by how much....well enough to keep Boxster sales going-after all this model provides pure profit (its development costs having been already written off..)
3) So they made it expensive but just at the point that the supply meets demand to yeild the greatest profit (ie optimum price elasticity of demand).
4) Now looking at the 997, they have also made the Cayman expensive enough for it not to be a substitute for a basic 997 ie its still expensive enough not to be considered a bargain over a 997. Again, this doesnt canibalise sales for the expensive a(and therefore more profitable model).
Its pure strategy, finance and marketing genuis..based on some whizzbang capacity and profit modelling across Porsche's entire portfilio. The irony is that the Cayman is actually a £30k car in real terms (as it was always designed to be) but this pricing strategy has made it into a £50k which is quite crap for real enthusiasts (who are not as sensitive to marketing hype). What will happen is that the used market (which is generally more price elasticity sensitive) will down price this car in a big way-just as it does with overpriced Mercedes (where the new price premium over brands such as Audi and BMW is quickly erroded).
>> Edited by kamal996 on Thursday 8th December 10:29
kamal996 said:
So what about my contention that the Cayman is correctly priced, its the 911 thats too cheap?
Nope...Porsche wouldnt be making super profits if this were the case..
Surely the 'correct' price is more about the competition rather than the companies profitability?
Competition sort of comes into the equation but its not the overall diver. It all comes down to a profit motive...it about matching the supply and demand at a point that produces maximum profit (NOT REVENUE!-see GM who have huge revenues but little in terms of magrin). Demand is a factor of competition.
The real balance is to make sure whatver the decision that it remains sustainable and doesnt harm the brand. Mercedes is a great example of getting this wrong. Overpricing without a reduction is supply has meant massively discounting the C class.
The real balance is to make sure whatver the decision that it remains sustainable and doesnt harm the brand. Mercedes is a great example of getting this wrong. Overpricing without a reduction is supply has meant massively discounting the C class.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff