what is this heel-toe stuff?

[softinthehead]

i hesitate to ask, given the fairly robust postings of late, but its bugging me, so will someone tell me what heel-toe means, and what its for?

and please, be nice to me, its my birthday and I'm feeling old

[verysideways]

You put your heel approx between the accelerator and brake pedals and *roll* your foot from brake to blip the throttle (imagine braking hard and being able to blip the throttle without having to have three legs and three feet).

Alternatively, press the brake pedal with the ball of your foot and blip the throttle with your heel (so your foot is at an angle)

Some people find it easier to do one way, some the other, some cars are easier to do one method than the other, and if you try it stationary you'll see it takes practice, when you try it moving you'll probably let go of the brake pedal, stab the brake pedal, or rev the nuts off the engine :-)

Before you drive home tonight, sit in your car, engine off, and try it.

[verysideways]

sorry - purpose - to allow you to brake hard and change down a gear and blip the throttle so that engine revs rise to meet the downchange.

[softinthehead]

hmmm.....tempting, but lets face it, I'm going to die if I try it arent I?

[nervous]

softinthehead said:

hmmm.....tempting, but lets face it, I'm going to die if I try it arent I?

happy birthday brotherman sounds like it might be your last

[Paul968]

One of the problems with learning heel & toe is that unless you are braking fairly hard, the pedals are at the wrong heights relative to each other to make it easy. I find it much easier on track, when firm braking means that the brake pedal is lower than for normal road braking, which means that the twist of your foot needed to get your heel to the throttle is less difficult. Or have I just got odd feet?

[hobo]

Try appraching a corner at say, 30mph faster than you should be & changing down gear without H&T. Rear wheels will lock, at which point you'll wish you'd learnt to do it.

Just try it at 'slower' speeds to start with & build it up bit by bit.

[trackdemon]

Worth persevering with - one of the most satisfying aspects of using a manual box is getting this right. It's intended purpose is to make for a smoother drive - and it does - but really, its just more fun for the driver.

[pdV6]

Paul968 said:

One of the problems with learning heel & toe is that ... the pedals are at the wrong heights relative to each othe

Depends on your car's pedal setup. It can be virtually impossible in some cars and very easy in others. I guess this is one of the plus points if you have adjustable pedals.

[nervous]

oy, say happy birthday to the old gits you lot! this may well be his last post...

[Don]

pdV6 said:

Paul968 said: One of the problems with learning heel & toe is that ... the pedals are at the wrong heights relative to each othe Depends on your car's pedal setup. It can be virtually impossible in some cars and very easy in others. I guess this is one of the plus points if you have adjustable pedals.

It is, however, easy to do in every last Porsche I have ever tried.

[verysideways]

a ) Happy Birthday (missed that bit, i was so busy trying to explain the heel/toe)
b ) Relatively easy to do with floor mounted pedals (air cooled 911)
c ) Very easy to do in my old Capri (which is what taught my heel'n'toe and wet rwd dynamics)

[butzi]

Learnt and practiced it on my old falling apart Beetle. On some cars it is just imposible but on Beetle and 911 it's quite easy.

[800]

Agree, old cars it used to be easy. My old E21 was a dream. Most modern cars its almost impossible to do safely.
But, the pedal set-up and progressive brakes on Porsches make it easy.

(Says the poof with the hated Tiptronic )

[weltmeister]

Why is it necessary ?

Allan

[GarrettMacD]

weltmeister said:

Why is it necessary ? Allan

To stop you locking the driven wheels when downchanging.

Say you are at 4000rpm in fourth and 'normal' change down to third. Revs will go straight up to around 6000rpm, risking the wheels locking.

Now, say you are at 4000rpm if fourth, dip clutch and heel-toe to rise the revs to 6000rpm. You now engage third gear and the revs are at 6000rpm, which is perfect for the gear you have selected.

It takes a lot of time and you should NEVER rush it.

If you really want to perfect it you might need to have your brake/gas pedal moved closer together. One of the problems with keeping your foot in the middle of the brake/gas is that as you 'blip' the revs you will often reduce brake pressure, which totally negates the advantage.

Far better to have a solid brake pedal, brake very hard and roll the right side of your right foot onto the gas just before you engage the lower gear. That way you will always get maximum retardation regardless of whether you get the H-T right or not.

Alternatively, you can adapt your driving to cope with a jittery back end when downchanging - did you know that Mika Hakkinen went through the majority of his career without ever using H-T. Useless fact # 456283759,

[silver993tt]

GarrettMacD said:

Alternatively, you can adapt your driving to cope with a jittery back end when downchanging - did you know that Mika Hakkinen went through the majority of his career without ever using H-T. Useless fact # 456283759,

so it's not necesary then

[GarrettMacD]

silver993tt said:

GarrettMacD said: Alternatively, you can adapt your driving to cope with a jittery back end when downchanging - did you know that Mika Hakkinen went through the majority of his career without ever using H-T. Useless fact # 456283759, so it's not necesary then

Not really!!!
If someone is serious about getting up the ladder in racing then it's handy to have, but then most of the cars they would be driving (GT's, F3, F3000, etc) all have sequential boxes anyway, so it's becoming less and less important.

On the road, at road speeds it is near-redundant, but it DOES make you feel like Fangio

[BliarOut]

Just tried it on my tiptronic.... Banged my nose on the screen

[softinthehead]

thank you for all your kind words.

i think i might try it in the wife's jeep first....

does it matter if its an automatic?