CARRERA GT FOR SALE !!
Discussion
Cheap Silver one........?
www.wreckedexotics.com/carreragt/carreraGT_20041211_003.shtml
www.wreckedexotics.com/carreragt/carreraGT_20041211_003.shtml
there are a couple of things which I believe might just help the CGT's cause in the near future.The first is that production has either just ended or is about to end and that has to be meaningful.The second thing is that as early cars start to exit the 2 year warranty period Porsche have to decide whether to make an extendable warranty available going forward.I reckon it won't be cheap but that they'll pretty much have to do it and as such certain big questions over how people care for their cars going forward will get answered.Thirdly, I agree with Flemke and as I've said on the 993 GT2 thread,that wonderful though the GT2 is the CGT should always justify trading at a healthy premium to it and that above a certain amount of cash the smart money is more likely to graduate to a CGT than any 911.My final point broadens this argument a little.The UK market routinely sees people spending circa £150k on new F430 spiders/Ford GT's/612's/Murcialago's etc.I understand that these cars are seen as more usable etc than a CGT but surely the CGT will also continue to justify a pretty meaningful premium to this other (much lesser) group of supercar.
I believe that those who have enquired about warranty extension to Porsche GB have been told none is available, this will really impact the cars desirability, as risking a bill of perhaps another £50-100k in the event of engine failure is not a great prospect, even if a remote one.
I think CGTs will slide to circa £175-£200k, then pretty much stop.
I think CGTs will slide to circa £175-£200k, then pretty much stop.
GuyR said:Unless a particular model of engine has a known, serious flaw, it's hard to believe that the lack of warranty would put much pressure on prices.
I believe that those who have enquired about warranty extension to Porsche GB have been told none is available, this will really impact the cars desirability, as risking a bill of perhaps another £50-100k in the event of engine failure is not a great prospect, even if a remote one.
I think CGTs will slide to circa £175-£200k, then pretty much stop.
If you were seriously considering spending a couple of hundred grand or more on a car, it must be something special that has few possible substitutes (and they themselves are unlikely to have warranties available).
Look at all the cars that have that kind of value today. Most all of them are 10+ years old, and few have warranties. For the people whom I know who buy such things, it might be nice to have the option of getting a warranty (never partaken myself), but it doesn't affect whether they actually get a car.
Furthermore, if it doesn't diminish the prices of cars that are crap and do break (such as certain Modenese contraptions), it's not going to influence the value of proper Teutonic engineering.
as what Flemke said, I wanted a 911, the first one I viewed on private sale I bought the next day.
If I had the money for a CGT I would also factor in the risks involved, I never knew I could buy an extended warranty for the 911 until joining PH a few weeks after buying it, then got one just in case.
If I had the money for a CGT I would also factor in the risks involved, I never knew I could buy an extended warranty for the 911 until joining PH a few weeks after buying it, then got one just in case.
gunner said:
...as I've said on the 993 GT2 thread,that wonderful though the GT2 is the CGT should always justify trading at a healthy premium to it and that above a certain amount of cash the smart money is more likely to graduate to a CGT than any 911....
CGT is at the moment a trophy car, something to be seen in rather than driven. IMHO there's no comparison between CGT and any 911 - different concepts, different goals.
CGT is still in production (I think) whilst the number of GT2s can only dwindle so it wouldn't surprise me to see in years to come the values levelling out i.e. GT2 & '72 RS values in pretty much the same ball park.
Sleep Envy said:
CGT is still in production (I think) whilst the number of GT2s can only dwindle so it wouldn't surprise me to see in years to come the values levelling out i.e. GT2 & '72 RS values in pretty much the same ball park.
CGT production is at its end, 1250 having been produced.
Much of the cause of the pressure on CGT prices came from the US.
In the rest of the world, a buyer had to put down roughly 10% of the net purchase price in order to get a build spot. Once Porsche had 1000 spots spoken for, they committed to the project. In order to maintain your build spot, early on you were asked to make your specification and put down another 10-ish%. If you were going to lay down £50K, there was a decent chance that you actually wanted the car (notwithstanding parasitic speculating car dealers).
The States is by far P's biggest market, and as a group US OPCs have a lot of clout with the factory. The group maintained that the US buyer would normally be unwilling to put down a deposit and wait as long as four years before he got his car. In light of this, the factory offered a different deal to US OPCs. They were not required to advance to the factory a 20% deposit for each car; they were only required to commit to paying for any car they had ordered once it was delivered.
The result of this was that, in contrast to the ROW, the US OPCs ordered many more cars than the number for which they had actual buyers. Since the first, say, eight-ten months of production, much of the pressure on CGT prices has come from the obvious overhang of American supply.
Follow-up demand in the States was aggravated by initial magazine reports that the car's clutch was too demanding to operate (possibly true in a country in which most people have never driven a manual 'box). The low front clearance also put people off, although in reality it is easy enough to work around.
In addition, there was always a small margin between RRP and an OPC's cost, so many OPCs never tried to get involved. To service a CGT requires a specific investment in bespoke equipment and staff training; the cost of this in relation to the uninspiring margins on new sales meant that only a fraction of Porsche's US distribution network was at work finding homes for the cars.
All the above contributed to the present disappointment. Prices certainly could go down further, but people who are expecting the CGT market to be permanently depressed may want to bear in mind that for several years after production ceased, 250GTOs were available for a few grand.
As with most cars of this sort, comprehensive insurance tends to cost 2-2.5% of insured value p.a.
Not wishing to deviate too far from a good ol' thread, but Burzel and imom mentioned earlier about the GT1...seems to me to be the model that nobody mentions; very rarely mentioned on PH, never included in magazine summary sections, rarely talked about versus the C-GT and 959, in fact, I remember only reading one article where Alan McNish drove one on the UK public roads, or am I not reading enough? 
The only regular mention I can think of is the partial commonality of the engine to the 996 GT3/GT2/TT.
[/cue somebody now listing 10 instances of GT1 review/testdrives]
Doesn't seem to also make anyones "Top Ten" list in the occassional poll-thread that sometimes pops up?....any specific reasons? (yeah, I know they're like hens teeth and tres-expensive)...ah, fond memories of seeing it at La Sarthe, he says scrambling into the loft to dig out photos...
The only regular mention I can think of is the partial commonality of the engine to the 996 GT3/GT2/TT.
[/cue somebody now listing 10 instances of GT1 review/testdrives]
Doesn't seem to also make anyones "Top Ten" list in the occassional poll-thread that sometimes pops up?....any specific reasons? (yeah, I know they're like hens teeth and tres-expensive)...ah, fond memories of seeing it at La Sarthe, he says scrambling into the loft to dig out photos...
spenny_b said:The GT1 interior is bog-standard 993. The look of the car from the back is mind-bogglingly ugly. QED
Not wishing to deviate too far from a good ol' thread, but Burzel and imom mentioned earlier about the GT1...seems to me to be the model that nobody mentions; very rarely mentioned on PH, never included in magazine summary sections, rarely talked about versus the C-GT and 959, in fact, I remember only reading one article where Alan McNish drove one on the UK public roads, or am I not reading enough?
The only regular mention I can think of is the partial commonality of the engine to the 996 GT3/GT2/TT.
[/cue somebody now listing 10 instances of GT1 review/testdrives]
Doesn't seem to also make anyones "Top Ten" list in the occassional poll-thread that sometimes pops up?....any specific reasons? (yeah, I know they're like hens teeth and tres-expensive)...ah, fond memories of seeing it at La Sarthe, he says scrambling into the loft to dig out photos...
The 993rs cs is also a special car for sure!
I have had some interesting prices for carrera gt insurance, for a 200k car, from 6,000 down to £1500 from the company that i have been with for 12 years. I thought this was pretty good! Considering parts costs etc.
I think most of the smart money has already moved back into classic/early racers,73 rsr are selling for over 350k with good race history, even cars with a battered past, but fully restored are now commanding this sort of money +.
Try and buy a good/proper 73 rsr or a 911 st,a tr or a r! Bernie eccelstones 73rsr that he had owned for years, he sold it a couple of months ago, a florida dealer bought it in the morning and sold it in the afternoon of the same day, for a lot of money!
The real shame of all this, is the enjoyment factor of driving the cars and racing them has been dulled some what by the value. To the point that its now worth building a fia /msa replica and racing it, rather than the real item. Good /accurate replicas are getting expensive and are being snapped up, and reasonably quickly if they have all the right giggling bits, such as twin spark dizzies, high butterflies ,big injector pumps etc.
993 Gt2 and possibly the rs may well go this way one day, especially when they become eligible for classic lemans or the newish classic endurance series that is supporting the petit lemans series. The problem with the 993rs is that the cup cars will probably fill this slot for historic/old timer racing etc
The gt1 is a different league again, you think carrera gt parts are expensive! Also far less practical than a carrera gt for the road at least. Also possibly not much faster on the track and i would say possibly slower on the road.
I have had some interesting prices for carrera gt insurance, for a 200k car, from 6,000 down to £1500 from the company that i have been with for 12 years. I thought this was pretty good! Considering parts costs etc.
I think most of the smart money has already moved back into classic/early racers,73 rsr are selling for over 350k with good race history, even cars with a battered past, but fully restored are now commanding this sort of money +.
Try and buy a good/proper 73 rsr or a 911 st,a tr or a r! Bernie eccelstones 73rsr that he had owned for years, he sold it a couple of months ago, a florida dealer bought it in the morning and sold it in the afternoon of the same day, for a lot of money!
The real shame of all this, is the enjoyment factor of driving the cars and racing them has been dulled some what by the value. To the point that its now worth building a fia /msa replica and racing it, rather than the real item. Good /accurate replicas are getting expensive and are being snapped up, and reasonably quickly if they have all the right giggling bits, such as twin spark dizzies, high butterflies ,big injector pumps etc.
993 Gt2 and possibly the rs may well go this way one day, especially when they become eligible for classic lemans or the newish classic endurance series that is supporting the petit lemans series. The problem with the 993rs is that the cup cars will probably fill this slot for historic/old timer racing etc
The gt1 is a different league again, you think carrera gt parts are expensive! Also far less practical than a carrera gt for the road at least. Also possibly not much faster on the track and i would say possibly slower on the road.
markbe said:
The most likely thing to affect the prices of the CGT, will be Porsche's next offering in the super car market.
Not to mention the new AMG Merc gullwing,sporting 750bhp!!..
Regards Mark.
Not to mention the new AMG Merc gullwing,sporting 750bhp!!.
. Regards Mark.
I doubt it, Porsche buyers like cars that handle and go round corners and Mercedes haven't yet learnt how to make that happen with their overweight bloated barges (although some are ok as luxury drag-racers).....
Guy
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