Will 18" rims ruin the the ride on a 993?
Discussion
Some of you may have seen a thread I posted earlier in the week about a particular 993 in stock at Gmund which had caught my eye.
(Thread here: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=247968&f=48&h=0 )
During the course of that thread, it came to light that it was an early 993 that wasn't designed to run on 18s but there was also a comment from Ajit, who had previously owned the car, that the ride on the 18s had been too harsh for his taste.
If it doesn't sell before I'm able to get up to Gmund, I intend to go and test drive it and form my own view on whether it's intolerably harsh. I guess it's one of those things that you just have to experience for yourself.
In the meantime, I was hoping I could get some views from other owners who have run a 993 on both 17s and 18s on the differences and whether the increased harshness on 18s outweighs the improved (IMO, of course) appearance as against 17 Cups.
(FWIW, the S2000 I'm currently driving has pretty stiff unforgiving suspension, so I'm not expecting to be wafted along on a cushion of air in luxobarge style. Part of my problem is limited experience to date of driving 993s, on OEM 17s or otherwise, so I don't really have much of a basis for comparison)
(I'm also doing some research on the implications of running an early "non-certified" 993 on 18s, but any comments also welcome on that)
(Thread here: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=247968&f=48&h=0 )
During the course of that thread, it came to light that it was an early 993 that wasn't designed to run on 18s but there was also a comment from Ajit, who had previously owned the car, that the ride on the 18s had been too harsh for his taste.
If it doesn't sell before I'm able to get up to Gmund, I intend to go and test drive it and form my own view on whether it's intolerably harsh. I guess it's one of those things that you just have to experience for yourself.
In the meantime, I was hoping I could get some views from other owners who have run a 993 on both 17s and 18s on the differences and whether the increased harshness on 18s outweighs the improved (IMO, of course) appearance as against 17 Cups.
(FWIW, the S2000 I'm currently driving has pretty stiff unforgiving suspension, so I'm not expecting to be wafted along on a cushion of air in luxobarge style. Part of my problem is limited experience to date of driving 993s, on OEM 17s or otherwise, so I don't really have much of a basis for comparison)
(I'm also doing some research on the implications of running an early "non-certified" 993 on 18s, but any comments also welcome on that)
As you mention, go and test drive it, preferably on type of roads that you will do the majority of the milleage on and see if the ride quality is acceptable to you. Very subjective, what will be acceptable to many might not be ok for you.
Personally, I like the more adjustable handling, better ride and slightly quieter 17s - particulary when cost comes into it when buying new tyres. 18" do look better though...
Personally, I like the more adjustable handling, better ride and slightly quieter 17s - particulary when cost comes into it when buying new tyres. 18" do look better though...
My 993 C4 had 18" Turbo alloys fitted, which looked great but did tramline on certain roads and kerbed quite easily (that could have been down to the driving and tyres which didn't have anti-kerb lips on them).
If I was running a 993 again I'd go for the standard 17" Cups.
Saying that I'm looking for a set of Turbo Fuchs for my 3.2
If I was running a 993 again I'd go for the standard 17" Cups.
Saying that I'm looking for a set of Turbo Fuchs for my 3.2
Lurking,
I think you have the measure of the equation. 18 inch wheels (IMO) make the car skittish and prone to tramlining and are therefore only appealing in terms of aesthetics. My opinion again is that the 17s are best suited to the car.
Don't let the 18s put you of the car at Gmund. If you end up buying the car you could easily sell the 18s, buy yourself some 17s and be quids in. It really is a matter of personal preference.
Less of the due dilligence go drive the the thing and decide if you like it.
pp
I think you have the measure of the equation. 18 inch wheels (IMO) make the car skittish and prone to tramlining and are therefore only appealing in terms of aesthetics. My opinion again is that the 17s are best suited to the car.
Don't let the 18s put you of the car at Gmund. If you end up buying the car you could easily sell the 18s, buy yourself some 17s and be quids in. It really is a matter of personal preference.
Less of the due dilligence go drive the the thing and decide if you like it.
pp
Its not so much that the ride was overly harsh or even tramlined (which it did a bit) - for me, the car felt more delicate and drove better on the 17s.
Decide whether its the right car for the right price - like's been said, you could always sell the wheels.
If it drives anything like when i had it, you'll like it. Make sure you drive a varioram car before you buy my old pre vram car.
Cheers
Ajit.
Decide whether its the right car for the right price - like's been said, you could always sell the wheels.
If it drives anything like when i had it, you'll like it. Make sure you drive a varioram car before you buy my old pre vram car.
Cheers
Ajit.
Pickled Piper said:
Lurking,
Less of the due dilligence go drive the the thing and decide if you like it.
Occupational hazard, I'm afraid
As I said, I do intend to go and actually drive it. Can't do it this weekend (Old Man's 60th birthday tomorrow) so it will have to be next weekend at earliest
I know it's going to be very a subjective thing - just looking for a few different views. It was the same with the S2000 actually - 18s looked better but gave a harsh ride and were prone to tramlining. The original model's 16s looked too small, but were then swapped for 17s when it was facelifted in 2004, and they looked rather better.
(FWIW, given the issues with wheels and the relatively high mileage of this particular car, and also that a provisional private sale of my own car means I have a bit more of a budget to play with, my original preference of a Targa becomes more realistic. But I'll never know unless I go and try it!)
cyberface said:
If you like the car and don't want the Carrera 2002 alloys (and they're OEM and in good nick) then I will buy the wheels off you - I really want a set for my 993 
On the contrary, cyberface - I LOVE the alloys. It's what drew me to the car to begin with.
Whilst it would be unfair to say it's like any other high(ish) mileage 993 without them (especially given the modified suspension and sports exhaust), it's no more appealing than a number of other 993s, especially at the price.
EDIT: cyberface, I see from your profile that your 993 is a 94 too. Is yours one of the early ones that CAN run 18s then? Or are you just unconcerned about that?
>> Edited by Lurking Lawyer on Friday 3rd March 21:41
^^ nope, I am concerned, and have a steering rack brace being sent to me by my local OPC as we speak. Should be here early next week. AFAIK all that the early 993s require is this chunk of aluminium to safely use 18" wheels. However, for me it's belt 'n' braces, since the 2002 Carrera 18" rims are actually lighter than the standard 17" cups IIRC, and the problem with early 993s and 18" wheels was purely one of controlling the extra mass of the wheels. Remember that 'Turbo Look' 18" wheels weigh a TON and the brace is probably designed to support these.
The plan is to fit the steering rack brace, uprate the brakes (new OEM discs, Pagid pads, decent fluid), fit some 2002 Carrera alloys, then once the credit card's recovered, get the suspension refreshed.
Hopefully then will have the footwork to go with the supercharged punch!
The plan is to fit the steering rack brace, uprate the brakes (new OEM discs, Pagid pads, decent fluid), fit some 2002 Carrera alloys, then once the credit card's recovered, get the suspension refreshed.
Hopefully then will have the footwork to go with the supercharged punch!
cyberface said:
^^ nope, I am concerned, and have a steering rack brace being sent to me by my local OPC as we speak. Should be here early next week. AFAIK all that the early 993s require is this chunk of aluminium to safely use 18" wheels.
Can anyone confirm this? Not that I doubt cyberface but just that, as I read the TSB that Maurice linked to on the PCGB forum on my other thread, it said that certain early 993s weren't suitable for retrofitting of 18s, even with the steering rack brace
Could just be that your 993 falls within the range of VINs for which they were certified if the brace was fitted, cyber?
(Just to confuse matters further, the VIN appearing on the Gmund website for that Polar C2 doesn't appear to be within the range for which 18s were OK with the brace OR on the list of VINs for which 18s were not certified.... )
I had 18" Turbo Twists on my '94 993 C2 with the steering brace and had no problems whatsoever. Think any problems may occur if you are using the car for 'extreme' use.
The car however tramlined horrendously, even after a full alignment. Conversely my 993 Turbo hardly suffered tramlining. Go figure.
The car however tramlined horrendously, even after a full alignment. Conversely my 993 Turbo hardly suffered tramlining. Go figure.
I think it was more than just the steering brace that the later cars had which enabled them to take the 18s. Some sort of chassis improvements although when i searched a few yrs ago, i couldnt find further details of this.
May explain why the later cars feel as good on 18s as the early non approved ones did on 17s.
Ajit.
May explain why the later cars feel as good on 18s as the early non approved ones did on 17s.
Ajit.
I believe that post '95 the car's design was changed to allow for 18" wheels. This included a different set-up which may have improved the handling/feel a little....but not by light years!
The steering rack is needed for early cars but is unlikely to produce a better 'feel'.
I upgraded my 16" wheels to 17", and avoided the 18" after much advice from Porsche specialists.....car improved no end!! Ride was still compliant enough for a sports car.
Cheers, Paultje.
The steering rack is needed for early cars but is unlikely to produce a better 'feel'.
I upgraded my 16" wheels to 17", and avoided the 18" after much advice from Porsche specialists.....car improved no end!! Ride was still compliant enough for a sports car.
Cheers, Paultje.
hi there
i have set of 17' turbo 2's currently on my 993 2S, if you faniced swapping assuming that you bought the car etc.
i also used to have a '95 carrera 2 which when i bought it had some 18's on it; personally i didn't like the way that it looked as they were too big for car and stuck out, particuarly at the back (i thought that it looked a little like some of these 'modded up' novas and fiesta's that you see which have wheels that are far to big for the car etc).
the ride also wasn't that great, changed then to 17's much better. i reckon at the end of the day you've got to remember that a standard 993 wasn't meant to run on 17's.
i have set of 17' turbo 2's currently on my 993 2S, if you faniced swapping assuming that you bought the car etc.
i also used to have a '95 carrera 2 which when i bought it had some 18's on it; personally i didn't like the way that it looked as they were too big for car and stuck out, particuarly at the back (i thought that it looked a little like some of these 'modded up' novas and fiesta's that you see which have wheels that are far to big for the car etc).
the ride also wasn't that great, changed then to 17's much better. i reckon at the end of the day you've got to remember that a standard 993 wasn't meant to run on 17's.
Looking purely at how these would affect the dynamics... you would have a slightly higher overall grip level, but a violent transition into slide.
Expect the car to be slower through corners in the wet, be very "character building" on bends that are not smooth and, as has been said, to tramline. Overall ride comfort will suffer slightly, but this would be the least of the sacrifices.
It'll look nice though
Expect the car to be slower through corners in the wet, be very "character building" on bends that are not smooth and, as has been said, to tramline. Overall ride comfort will suffer slightly, but this would be the least of the sacrifices.
It'll look nice though
andyleeds said:
hi there
the ride also wasn't that great, changed then to 17's much better. i reckon at the end of the day you've got to remember that a standard 993 wasn't meant to run on 17's.
Did you mean to say 'wasn't meant to run on 18's'?
Also, does anyone have any experience of running the genuine (lighter) 'Turbo Technology' (hollow) wheels on a 993, and if so, is their a significant difference between the 'hollows' and 'solids', and... what tyre pressures do you use for the 'hollows' on your 993?
police state said:
Also, does anyone have any experience of running the genuine (lighter) 'Turbo Technology' (hollow) wheels on a 993, and if so, is their a significant difference between the 'hollows' and 'solids', and... what tyre pressures do you use for the 'hollows' on your 993?
Could be completely off the mark here but I'm not sure hollow Turbo alloys were made with the correct narrow body off set, ie they were made for the TT and 4S cars only (the 2S were apparently supplied with 17" cups or solid turbo 18" as an option).
sleep envy said:
Also, does anyone have any experience of running the genuine (lighter) 'Turbo Technology' (hollow) wheels on a 993, and if so, is their a significant difference between the 'hollows' and 'solids', and... what tyre pressures do you use for the 'hollows' on your 993?
Could be completely off the mark here but I'm not sure hollow Turbo alloys were made with the correct narrow body off set, ie they were made for the TT and 4S cars only (the 2S were apparently supplied with 17" cups or solid turbo 18" as an option).
I assume they were, surely Porsche would not supply the car with them if they were not intended for it?, does anyone have the definitive answer?
Also... does anyone know what the standard size for the steering wheel is? Mine say's it's a 'sports' sterring wheel, but it seems large and has four spokes?...
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