911 Turbo - Buying Advice Please
Discussion
I hope you can help me. I have up to £20k to spend on a weekend toy. I've had a 928 & a 968, as well as a few other interesting cars, but I'm finally "ready" for a 911. I've lusted after 911 Turbos since 1977 when one of my friend's fathers at school bought one - so that is my preference.
I've been looking at late 930s and early LHD 964s T2 3.3. I've not yet driven either but I suspect that I'd prefer the more modern feeling of a 964 T2. I'm happy with a modified car as long as it is still reliable.
I am reckoning on running costs of £2k per year (exc. insurance). Is that realistic?
Any thoughts on pros and cons of each - especially residuals?
Cheers,
Tim.
I've been looking at late 930s and early LHD 964s T2 3.3. I've not yet driven either but I suspect that I'd prefer the more modern feeling of a 964 T2. I'm happy with a modified car as long as it is still reliable.
I am reckoning on running costs of £2k per year (exc. insurance). Is that realistic?
Any thoughts on pros and cons of each - especially residuals?
Cheers,
Tim.
timroe said:
I am reckoning on running costs of £2k per year (exc. insurance). Is that realistic?
Tim
I'm nearly up there with you - I just bought a 964 for £14k. I did look at the turbo option. But from what I have heard the running costs can be more like £4/5k, sometimes more. I'm sure someone with more 965 experience will pop up soon.......
I am budgeting £2k for my 964.........
All the best
Tom
>> Edited by 964Tom on Monday 27th March 16:27
>> Edited by 964Tom on Monday 27th March 16:28
Future value will purely be dictated by condition. Good 930s fetch 20k+, as do good 965s. The difference is that due to age the condition of 930s can result in cars costing 10k or less to snare the unwary. Big bills often lurk!
Three words: Condition, condition, condition. A 965 will be newer and therefore stands a better chance. They are also better technically, but both models are similar. 2k is an optimistic annual running cost. It could be done but keep fingers and toes crossed that you get a good example and nothing major goes. Even oil leaks and annoying running faults can cost a lot to sort.
Your budget isn't wholly unreasonable - but don't buy a dog or you'll be fecked good and proper.
A well maintained 964 Carrera 2 or 993 C2 will be a bit cheaper to run and less of a risk, at the expense of grunt, looks and turbo legend.
Three words: Condition, condition, condition. A 965 will be newer and therefore stands a better chance. They are also better technically, but both models are similar. 2k is an optimistic annual running cost. It could be done but keep fingers and toes crossed that you get a good example and nothing major goes. Even oil leaks and annoying running faults can cost a lot to sort.
Your budget isn't wholly unreasonable - but don't buy a dog or you'll be fecked good and proper.
A well maintained 964 Carrera 2 or 993 C2 will be a bit cheaper to run and less of a risk, at the expense of grunt, looks and turbo legend.
Tim
I've recently bought a 930 Turbo for similar reasons to you. It is the fulfilment of a childhood dream. I paid a little more than 20k for an immaculate '89 with the 5 speed box and 31,500 miles on the clock. I've had it inspected twice to be sure I wasn't buying a nail.
Having said that, I'm under no illusions about what it costs to maintain one of these cars properly. I am allowing 2-3k, but am prepared to accept it may well be more if something significant goes wrong. However, I've done all that I can to ensure that the car I have bought is fundamentally sound.
This car is everything I dreamt it would be. It is a little up on power because it has a one bar boost spring fitted and even by modern standards it is a very quick car.
The 5 speed box and the spring (which helps the turbo spool up a bit quicker) make the car very driveable so don't be put off by tales of "horrendous" turbo lag, becuase most people who talk about it haven't actually lived with one of these cars. Drive a good one and decide for yourself. I came from a turbo bodied 3.2 which didn't really start pulling hard until you had 4,000 revs showing. The Turbo would absolutely destroy it in the mid range from 3,000 revs upwards.
I am also amazed at how much attention this car gets. For some reason, there is something about the 930 that people love..
Find a good one and live your dream!
I've recently bought a 930 Turbo for similar reasons to you. It is the fulfilment of a childhood dream. I paid a little more than 20k for an immaculate '89 with the 5 speed box and 31,500 miles on the clock. I've had it inspected twice to be sure I wasn't buying a nail.
Having said that, I'm under no illusions about what it costs to maintain one of these cars properly. I am allowing 2-3k, but am prepared to accept it may well be more if something significant goes wrong. However, I've done all that I can to ensure that the car I have bought is fundamentally sound.
This car is everything I dreamt it would be. It is a little up on power because it has a one bar boost spring fitted and even by modern standards it is a very quick car.
The 5 speed box and the spring (which helps the turbo spool up a bit quicker) make the car very driveable so don't be put off by tales of "horrendous" turbo lag, becuase most people who talk about it haven't actually lived with one of these cars. Drive a good one and decide for yourself. I came from a turbo bodied 3.2 which didn't really start pulling hard until you had 4,000 revs showing. The Turbo would absolutely destroy it in the mid range from 3,000 revs upwards.
I am also amazed at how much attention this car gets. For some reason, there is something about the 930 that people love..
Find a good one and live your dream!
I run a 1991 Turbo2 apart from having the top end rebuilt(90% under warrenty)runs decat pipe,g pipe,1 bar spring,manual boost control and decatted waste gate.Main cost fuel (lots of) tyres (ditto) but when you decide to buy one of these cars affraid that goes with the territory.
They are not cheap to run but the best buzz you can get.
Regards Craig
They are not cheap to run but the best buzz you can get.
Regards Craig
Thanks to you all for the feedback.
I think I'm pretty much decided on a turbo - I just don't think an ordinary 964 or even a 993 will quite do it for me.
I realise that I have to buy a really good car in order to give me the greatest chance of keeping running cost as low as possible. Within my £20k budget, then that means either a RHD 930 or a LHD 965. I will also get a PPI. I made the mistake of buying my first Porsche (a 928) without one and regretted it for 4 years - although I still loved the car!
I've outlined my assumptions for annual running costs below (incl. insurance, petrol MOT etc.) Bearing in mind I'll probably only do around 3k miles per year, I'd hope that these were on the high side - especially tyres and brakes - but I'd welcome any feedback.
£300 for (mainly rear 17"
tyres
£500 for discs and pads (front or rear not both)
£500 for servicing (independent)
£700 for miscellaneous items
£700 for insurance
£900 for petrol (3k miles @ 15mpg, petrol @ approx. £4.50 per gallon)
£165 for road tax
£40 for MOT
Total is £3,805 per annum
Mach - was yours the Wymondham car by any chance? That looked really nice.
Craig - at what mileage did you get the top end rebuilt and approximately how much was it?
Cheers,
Tim.
I think I'm pretty much decided on a turbo - I just don't think an ordinary 964 or even a 993 will quite do it for me.
I realise that I have to buy a really good car in order to give me the greatest chance of keeping running cost as low as possible. Within my £20k budget, then that means either a RHD 930 or a LHD 965. I will also get a PPI. I made the mistake of buying my first Porsche (a 928) without one and regretted it for 4 years - although I still loved the car!
I've outlined my assumptions for annual running costs below (incl. insurance, petrol MOT etc.) Bearing in mind I'll probably only do around 3k miles per year, I'd hope that these were on the high side - especially tyres and brakes - but I'd welcome any feedback.
£300 for (mainly rear 17"
tyres £500 for discs and pads (front or rear not both)
£500 for servicing (independent)
£700 for miscellaneous items
£700 for insurance
£900 for petrol (3k miles @ 15mpg, petrol @ approx. £4.50 per gallon)
£165 for road tax
£40 for MOT
Total is £3,805 per annum
Mach - was yours the Wymondham car by any chance? That looked really nice.
Craig - at what mileage did you get the top end rebuilt and approximately how much was it?
Cheers,
Tim.
You're being quite optimistic still re misc items and servicing... an engine rebuild can be 4-6k... new clutch can be almost a grand... worn front wishbone bushes 500 GBP... various turbo boost probs or oil leaks... 300+ GBP a time, maybe.
You really don't want anything major to go wrong
I'd perhaps budget another grand into the mix just to be safe and allow for a rebuild when it's needed further down the line.
You really don't want anything major to go wrong
I'd perhaps budget another grand into the mix just to be safe and allow for a rebuild when it's needed further down the line.
Tim
Yes it was (well spotted that man) and so far so good..
The only problem appears to be a duff battery. Lets hope it stays that way!
The various experts that have now had a look at it (including bodyshop) all seem to think it's a good 'un..
Good luck with your search, it is worth it.
Andrew
Yes it was (well spotted that man) and so far so good..
The only problem appears to be a duff battery. Lets hope it stays that way!
The various experts that have now had a look at it (including bodyshop) all seem to think it's a good 'un..
Good luck with your search, it is worth it.
Andrew
timroe said:
£300 for (mainly rear 17"
£500 for discs and pads (front or rear not both)
£500 for servicing (independent)
£700 for miscellaneous items
£700 for insurance
£900 for petrol (3k miles @ 15mpg, petrol @ approx. £4.50 per gallon)
£165 for road tax
£40 for MOT
Total is £3,805 per annum
Depending on your age and location insurance maybe half that. When I got my 3.2 Supersport, the insurance company got the quote wrong and had it down as a turbo. When I corrected them, it didn't affect the cost - £325 for 5K miles pa. I was 35 and it is a classic policy kept in a garage with Thatcham Cat 2
Mark.
My advice would be to drive both cars. I had a 1987 930 turbo for 18 months, which I swapped last year for a C2 964. The Turbo was a massively different drive to the 964. I would guess I am much quicker point to point in the 964, as the handling inspires much more confidence.
The Turbo was great fun in a straight line, it had the 1 bar boost spring and uprated suspension, but it was heavy, hard work to drive and the brakes would lock up and scare the crap out of me at the most inopportune moments.
The 964 isn't as quick, but a supercharger isn't very expensive.... mind you the Turbo is still appreciating, the 964 isn't!
Tim
The Turbo was great fun in a straight line, it had the 1 bar boost spring and uprated suspension, but it was heavy, hard work to drive and the brakes would lock up and scare the crap out of me at the most inopportune moments.
The 964 isn't as quick, but a supercharger isn't very expensive.... mind you the Turbo is still appreciating, the 964 isn't!
Tim
Like some fellow PH turbo 2 owners, my 965 is modified. It was bought from an OPC just after its first MoT was obtained and it had been standing on a forecourt for several motnhs, it was difficult watching the price drop in Top Marques until it was within my range while hoping nobody else was interested. In fact it went below what I was prepared to pay but that helped as it was a low miler that had been standing unused, a recipe for initial bills. So after the inevitable lack-of-use problems were sorted with the money saved by being patient, it was modified extensively but those costs were voluntary. The car is now 15 years old and has been used as intended for at least the last 10 years. During that time there has been one major bill, for a gearbox re-build, but that was more because I didn't like driving with a slightly notchy gearchange into third, the box was serviceable but I had that one syncro ring and shifting sleeve replaced. That apart, over the ten years it hasn't cost more than £1000 per year on average in servicing / repairs. It's been through several sets of tyres but that's only to be expected. Insurance is open miles and about £550 fc but then I'm clearly past it and too sedated to drive the thing beyond second gear (good for 80mph anyway)
Fuel is put in when it's needed, there's no choice is there. Regardless of what happens next I can't really complain, so it's a case of enjoy and only worry when it happens. Modifying is no real problem up to just over 400 bhp and 400 lb ft, and with a bit of lightening as well they can really move. In an otherwise scurrilous review of the car in T911 last year, it was described as having the acceleration of a 996 Turbo S. As you might guess, I can thoroughly recommend these cars, get a good one and look after it including driving it hard and it needn't cost a fortune in maintenance.
Fuel is put in when it's needed, there's no choice is there. Regardless of what happens next I can't really complain, so it's a case of enjoy and only worry when it happens. Modifying is no real problem up to just over 400 bhp and 400 lb ft, and with a bit of lightening as well they can really move. In an otherwise scurrilous review of the car in T911 last year, it was described as having the acceleration of a 996 Turbo S. As you might guess, I can thoroughly recommend these cars, get a good one and look after it including driving it hard and it needn't cost a fortune in maintenance.
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