RE: Porsche 959 v 997 Turbo
Discussion
flemke said:
Maybe so, but how many times in real life have you looked at a 959 with your face squashed against the ground?
Good point, though the pics of your car in Joe911's post also share some of the bowler look. No offense! I appreciate your tase in cars Flemke.
You should try a Lotus on for size. I suggest a well kept Esprit Sport 300, for your refined taste in raw street machines. A Sport 350 will do in a pinch, but not quite as spartan as the Sport 300. Or maybe meet up with a Mike Sekinger (UK/Switzerland) who owns one of the Esprit GT1 cars.
Speaking of the 959's brakes above, in a roundabout way, did you ever get your F1's brakes sorted to your liking? I remeber a very old series of posts about the F1's brakes not being uo to the task. Sorry for the threadjack, you can PM me if you like.
lotusse89 said:
did you ever get your F1's brakes sorted to your liking? I remeber a very old series of posts about the F1's brakes not being uo to the task.
Have been working on the brakes project for a couple of months. It is very complicated. My guess is that it will take us another six months to get them sorted. At this point we're not even sure whether we'll be using composite or iron.
Then there is the pad material issue, the pad size issue, the caliper size issue, the upright issue, the rotor size issue, the master cylinder diameter issue, the piston diameter issue, the front-to-rear issue, the servo issue, the pedal leverage issue, the heat exhaust issue, which folds into the wheel design issue. A bit of a challenge.
I have the best childhood memory of all. Being taken for a spin in, what I was lead to believe, the only black 959 in existence...and passing 165mph before the driver (a former Le Mans winner) lifted off. I still remember peering over his shoulder and wondering why he had lifeted off..only to see the rear of a car pulling on to the motorway from the sliproad, under estimating our extreme approaching velocity and getting a huge amount of Porsche 959 in his rear view mirror! I could not beleive how quickly we descended on the poor guy, but for a 10 year old....WOWWWW !!!
flemke said:
police state said:
Did your 959 come with some kind of commemorative book, perhaps detailing its history/origins?
Not as such. Although pretty low mileage, it had a thick sheaf of documentation, OPC services, images from books in which it had been pictured, that sort of thing. No special book.
That's a (small) shame; I like those kind of 'special books' for 'special cars'. I feel it brings the sense of ownership even closer to the spirit of its origins. You most likely know about most of the information on the following link, but for those that want to know a bit more about what makes this car so special (apart from driving it, imagine...), among others, here's an interesting link.
http://erntheburn.tripod.com/autos/95
If I may, Another question for you Flemke, you seem to have a penchant for great 80's cars. Do you have anything much more modern in the 'special' category. You don't have to say what it is if you don't want to. A manufacturers year would satisfy my curiosity.
police state said:
That's a (small) shame; I like those kind of 'special books' for 'special cars'. I feel it brings the sense of ownership even closer to the spirit of its origins. You most likely know about most of the information on the following link, but for those that want to know a bit more about what makes this car so special (apart from driving it, imagine...), among others, here's an interesting link.
http://erntheburn.tripod.com/autos/95
If I may, Another question for you Flemke, you seem to have a penchant for great 80's cars. Do you have anything much more modern in the 'special' category. You don't have to say what it is if you don't want to. A manufacturers year would satisfy my curiosity.
I do have that out-of-print 959 book with the heavy commemorative medal inside, if that's what you had in mind, but it didn't come with the car.
As for more modern, 'special' cars, the post from angrys3 addresses the latter part of your post, I think.
Rather than saying, "I have X", would it be enough to add that I have considered and rejected, each for its own reasons, the Enzo, F50, MC12, K'egg, Zonda, Veyron, GT1, LP640, Gumpert, Saleen, SLR, Ford GT and Ascari?
Cheers.
flemke said:
As for more modern, 'special' cars, the post from angrys3 addresses the latter part of your post, I think.
Rather than saying, "I have X", would it be enough to add that I have considered and rejected, each for its own reasons, the Enzo, F50, MC12, K'egg, Zonda, Veyron, GT1, LP640, Gumpert, Saleen, SLR, Ford GT and Ascari?
Cheers.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the GT1? Are you speaking of the '97 or '98 version? Too harsh for the street? Same with the MC-12, or just too big?
lotusse89 said:
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the GT1? Are you speaking of the '97 or '98 version? Too harsh for the street? Same with the MC-12, or just too big?
Was speaking of both. My thoughts on it aren't anything particularly insightful. The too-harsh part you can sometimes work around.
My objections were that I generally eschew turbos, the back of the car is monumentally ugly and, as you say, too wide for a practical road car, the interior is largely a stock 993 environment, and all told it seems not different enough from other things to justify taking a respectable chunk of one's time. If a car doesn't appeal enough that you expect to drive it often, then what's the point?
Obviously it was a very effective racer, which is nice in some theoretical sense, but as a road car it doesn't cut it for me.
Cheers.
gunner said:
Flemke,you seem to have softened slightly in your stance towards 'new' Ferraris and I have noticed recently that you have posted complimentary comments on both the 430 and 599.Are either of these cars you would want to own?
He did? The 599 I can understand, gorgeous car, but...the 430? What the hell were you thinking Flemke?
DJC said:
gunner said:
Flemke,you seem to have softened slightly in your stance towards 'new' Ferraris and I have noticed recently that you have posted complimentary comments on both the 430 and 599.Are either of these cars you would want to own?
He did? The 599 I can understand, gorgeous car, but...the 430? What the hell were you thinking Flemke?
Come on, get a grip of yourselves boys,Merc's are Best.
Mark
flemke said:
police state said:
That's a (small) shame; I like those kind of 'special books' for 'special cars'. I feel it brings the sense of ownership even closer to the spirit of its origins. You most likely know about most of the information on the following link, but for those that want to know a bit more about what makes this car so special (apart from driving it, imagine...), among others, here's an interesting link.
http://erntheburn.tripod.com/autos/95
If I may, Another question for you Flemke, you seem to have a penchant for great 80's cars. Do you have anything much more modern in the 'special' category. You don't have to say what it is if you don't want to. A manufacturers year would satisfy my curiosity.
I do have that out-of-print 959 book with the heavy commemorative medal inside, if that's what you had in mind, but it didn't come with the car.
As for more modern, 'special' cars, the post from angrys3 addresses the latter part of your post, I think.
Rather than saying, "I have X", would it be enough to add that I have considered and rejected, each for its own reasons, the Enzo, F50, MC12, K'egg, Zonda, Veyron, GT1, LP640, Gumpert, Saleen, SLR, Ford GT and Ascari?
Cheers.
Yes, it is a lovely site, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. I was pleased to see that the real thing looks just like the original drawings (on the site) somehow, my subconscious always told me that it was straight off the drawing board. As for the book, you have; that will do for me. It's nice to know that there is a special book for this particular car. I don't quite know why, but I always framed the F1 as a late 80's car, and someone mentioning an NSX and you in the same breath, gave me the impression you had a particular thing for that era (I do!). and I simply forgot about the CGT (inexplicable...).
DJC said:
gunner said:
Flemke,you seem to have softened slightly in your stance towards 'new' Ferraris and I have noticed recently that you have posted complimentary comments on both the 430 and 599.Are either of these cars you would want to own?
He did? The 599 I can understand, gorgeous car, but...the 430? What the hell were you thinking Flemke?
I don't think that you will find me ever having complimented the looks of the 430, or of the 599, for that matter.
The ugliness of the 430 speaks for itself; the 599 can't hold a candle to the 550.
Dynamically, the two new cars are quite good. How much of that is owing to the spirit of genius at Maranello and how much is owing to the fact that much of what's under the skin comes from outside suppliers, I could not say.
I can also tell you that the 430 Challenge car is distinctly superior to a 96 Cup car, which is roughly its counterpart.
These guys do make a pretty fair Formula One car, so it would be a bit unrealistic to expect them to have nothing at all to contribute to a dynamic road car.
My gripe with Ferrari is twofold:
- The build quality of all their road cars (430, 612, 559, Enzo) is average at best, which is unacceptable in cars that are the most expensive in their category.
For many years Ferrari have been able to get away with this because their cars were driven a fraction as much as other brands were. That's hardly a justification for building crap.
- The whole Ferrari "thing" is nauseating. The overpriced road cars, condescending attitude, "placing" of cars with high-profile rather than worthy owners, history of being favoured by the FIA, a deluded marketplace that grossly, risibly values a Ferrari higher than any other marque, the hundred of millions of fools who have been suckered into supporting Ferrari with the same penetrating insight through which they support Paris Hilton and Big Brother.
There is simply too little substance and too much bullshit.
Edited by flemke on Monday 16th October 21:03
I agree whole heartedly. However I think a percentage of what you have just levelled at Ferrari can also be levelled at Porsche. Since the 996 the build quality has suffered tremendously. You can argue that they still represent very good value for money but I believe Porsche reinvented themselves with the 996 and had to appeal to a different breed of Porsche owner to gain a much wider audience. A place where a lot of us air heads would not want to go.
As far as their race cars go throughout history they have alledgedly been rather underhanded with their motorsport dealings. Secretly factory backed and so called independant race teams, guys who spent a £1,000,000 on a 993GT1 with spares package to turn up at Le Mans and find the factory have turned up with their updated version. Yet we still get suckered in to buying the cars. I suppose we are a bit like heroin addicts that can't do without their next fix, for us it is the 911.
As far as their race cars go throughout history they have alledgedly been rather underhanded with their motorsport dealings. Secretly factory backed and so called independant race teams, guys who spent a £1,000,000 on a 993GT1 with spares package to turn up at Le Mans and find the factory have turned up with their updated version. Yet we still get suckered in to buying the cars. I suppose we are a bit like heroin addicts that can't do without their next fix, for us it is the 911.
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