Is the 997TT the MOST BORING car ever made by Porsche?
Discussion
DeltaHedge said:
Yes pls to Ruf. Anyone know how to get them in the UK? Is it even possible, as I don't see any official importer
No UK representation. PHers Adamt, GuyR, LeonS and drhildr should be able to advise on who to service them thoroughly in the UK.
Phone up RUF in Pfaffenhausen. Fly out and see the operation. Get one of their people to take you out in one of the development cars. They will exit the gate and probably turn left..... If you have the means, within 45 seconds you will be getting the chequebook out.
Edited by dazren on Friday 27th October 12:04
verysideways said:
nem351s said:
I think when he says "Ford" he means Aston Martin at a guess, not a Fiesta.
I assumed Ford GT...
Edit - i like those recreations too, but they're very expensive for what they are don't you think?
Edited by verysideways on Friday 27th October 10:02
I love them and would seriously consider one when I want to change. The only thing that would stop me is my obsession with the 1989 Turbo Bodied 911 Speedster.
Edited by nem351s on Friday 27th October 12:42
It's the current issue of speed and power versus driving enjoyment. It's relatively easy for manufacturers to create more and more powerful cars - what is far more difficult is to create a car that is truly fun and interesting to drive all any speed: including slow ones!
My personal favourites are the Boxter S, lots of fun and smiles especially with the hood down (cabs seem to have a built in fun/speed factor), and the '80s 911s - in particular the 930 which can seem as forceful as a Ferrari 360 if you drive it hard but is so full of character and style that you can even enjoy it gently cruising open roads at 40 or 50mph.
License-wise the boxter is the safer option, although initially more expensive. (£40k vs £20k)..
My personal favourites are the Boxter S, lots of fun and smiles especially with the hood down (cabs seem to have a built in fun/speed factor), and the '80s 911s - in particular the 930 which can seem as forceful as a Ferrari 360 if you drive it hard but is so full of character and style that you can even enjoy it gently cruising open roads at 40 or 50mph.
License-wise the boxter is the safer option, although initially more expensive. (£40k vs £20k)..
theoretically I am the perfect modern Porsche customer
I never had a 911 on my wall as I couldn't give a stuff about Porsches to be honest as Lambos existed. Old 964/993 hold no real appeal to me. I drove various Audis which got hotter and then graduated to a Boxster S and discovered what Porsches feel like to drive - the noise, the steering feel and suspension/grip signals flowing to your arse.
Now I can actually afford a £50k+ car so 911 it will be. Would love a GT3 but need rear seats and reasonable ride. So TT is obvious choice.
The 997TT is out of my budget but if I did have 100k to spend I wouldn't get one, the styling is fussy, wheels are naff. Can't explain why it has no appeal as all the other 997s or the 996TT do.
I never had a 911 on my wall as I couldn't give a stuff about Porsches to be honest as Lambos existed. Old 964/993 hold no real appeal to me. I drove various Audis which got hotter and then graduated to a Boxster S and discovered what Porsches feel like to drive - the noise, the steering feel and suspension/grip signals flowing to your arse.
Now I can actually afford a £50k+ car so 911 it will be. Would love a GT3 but need rear seats and reasonable ride. So TT is obvious choice.
The 997TT is out of my budget but if I did have 100k to spend I wouldn't get one, the styling is fussy, wheels are naff. Can't explain why it has no appeal as all the other 997s or the 996TT do.
Dr S said:
Try the GT3RS before you join the Fiesta team...
Yeah - I have discussed ordering a GT3RS (in Signal/Viper Green - same as my old 964 RS...mmmmmmm) with the OPC - probably get a slot mid next year.
The Ford GT (with a few small mods giving 650bhp) might be a nice fill-in until then!
I am intrigued though by the concept of either a Ruf modified 997TT (I hear they are bringing out a range of mods in December)...or even what the team at Ruf could do with my current 997C4S??
GT2 (997) has to fit into the potential list as well - the range, and choice, is just so huge now.....and therein lies part of the problem.....I must pass 25 other 996/997's on my way to work!!
I've had a 911 of one sort another (including 993GT2, 964RS, GT3 Mk1 & Mk2 & GT3RS, etc. etc) for over 17 years now (bought my first- a guards red 911 SSC - on finance when I was 21!) and in more recent times I have had to have the "tamer" versions becuase I needed the extra seats in the back for ocassional use for the kids. Now with other things in the fleet, I can afford the luxury of another pure two seater in the dealmaker garage - I'm just comimg to the conclusion that the 911 line isn't as "special", to me anyway, than it once was!
As the unfortunate hapless misguided owner of a 997TT let me offer a few words in defence of the lardy old barge. Sitting inside looking out I could be in the 997 C2S and a number of people on this forum quite rate the 997S, me included and aren't too bored when sitting in it.
So if its not the inside thats boring it must be the performance and handling. However, so far I haven't been so bored that I've nodded off at the wheel. Actually out there on ordinary British B roads its quite good fun. Not hard core, but not totally anaesthetising of the senses either. Steering not as communicative as my 3.2 Carrera of a bye gone age and doesn't sound as good either but still not that dull as to induce narcolepsy.
I wouldn't want a F430 or Lambo, too much of a liability. I've aleady got a family Fordor, so what else will be equally at home in Waitrose carpark, the roads north west of Fort William, will take self and Mrs Lowndes and our golf sticks round Europe, will not need servicing until 2008 and in the hands of a decent driver (not me) will be comfortably under 8 minutes (7:45 ish I believe) round the 'ring.
So if its not the inside thats boring it must be the performance and handling. However, so far I haven't been so bored that I've nodded off at the wheel. Actually out there on ordinary British B roads its quite good fun. Not hard core, but not totally anaesthetising of the senses either. Steering not as communicative as my 3.2 Carrera of a bye gone age and doesn't sound as good either but still not that dull as to induce narcolepsy.
I wouldn't want a F430 or Lambo, too much of a liability. I've aleady got a family Fordor, so what else will be equally at home in Waitrose carpark, the roads north west of Fort William, will take self and Mrs Lowndes and our golf sticks round Europe, will not need servicing until 2008 and in the hands of a decent driver (not me) will be comfortably under 8 minutes (7:45 ish I believe) round the 'ring.
DM have you ever driven a 996TT? I'd expect the 997TT to be similar but 10% more powerful, 10% more chuckable etc.
Have you considered following GuyR and drhildr's route to automotive madness of picking up a 996GT2 and giving it to RUF for the 590 (actually 638bhp!!!) upgrade? Should come in at about £110k for an absolute rocket!
DAZ
(not driven the 997TT)
Have you considered following GuyR and drhildr's route to automotive madness of picking up a 996GT2 and giving it to RUF for the 590 (actually 638bhp!!!) upgrade? Should come in at about £110k for an absolute rocket!
DAZ
(not driven the 997TT)
Edited by dazren on Friday 27th October 17:15
dazren said:
DM have you ever driven a 996TT? I'd expect the 997TT to be similar but 10% more powerful, 10% more chuckable etc.
Have you considered following GuyR and drhildr's to automotive madness of picking up a 996GT2 and giving it to RUF for the 590 (actually 638bhp!!!) upgrade? Should come in at about £110k for an absolute rocket!
996 tt and 997tt very different imo.The 996tt contrary to some of the gt2/gt3 drivers opinions still feels Porsche-like in its mannerisms and still has the back heavy feel and superb responsive steering of a 996.The 4wd system on the 996tt still feels fairly agricultural especially compared to the 'tricky' electronic systems on Evo's etc.All of this adds some personality to the car.When i drove the 997tt i found most of these quirky attributes or faults depending on ones view point had been removed ..it felt a bit quicker,a much better engine sound,nice interior compared to the 996..however the steering had very little feel and the 4wd system was so precise and accurate it took away a lot of the excitement,and made the car very Evo like imo.As an allround fast car to use daily i think its the best you can get,having said that as an owner im not sure you would take it for a half an hour thrash around the country lanes to put a smile on your face on a Sunday morning.Impressive car yes but fun car no..imo of course.Have you considered following GuyR and drhildr's to automotive madness of picking up a 996GT2 and giving it to RUF for the 590 (actually 638bhp!!!) upgrade? Should come in at about £110k for an absolute rocket!
Edited by dazren on Friday 27th October 16:54
'Was at Millbrook last Thursday driving 997Turbo manual and tip. Thankyou Mr Porsche.
I had a fantastic morning and ended-up on the Alpine circuit which was astonishing fun.
There is no doubt in my mind that it is a very accomplished machine, but for me the tip was still a slushmatic.
The manual was completely different, still slightly laggy with a touch of shunt in the 4wd system --- but with enormous grunt which was well suited to those Alpine hills --- and which probably suits it well therefore at the Nurburgring
But it wasn't as tactile or playful in the way that a GT3 would be --- and is probably, therefore, potentially much "safer".
Maybe this is why the Tip is proving so popular, because for those who like to point and press-on, it's a tremendously well built rocket ship.
As an aside, there was also a broken down DB9 parked up ....
(Not to forget sincere thanks to Barry Horne, who was patient with me and gave me a wonderful experience.)
I had a fantastic morning and ended-up on the Alpine circuit which was astonishing fun.
There is no doubt in my mind that it is a very accomplished machine, but for me the tip was still a slushmatic.
The manual was completely different, still slightly laggy with a touch of shunt in the 4wd system --- but with enormous grunt which was well suited to those Alpine hills --- and which probably suits it well therefore at the Nurburgring
But it wasn't as tactile or playful in the way that a GT3 would be --- and is probably, therefore, potentially much "safer".
Maybe this is why the Tip is proving so popular, because for those who like to point and press-on, it's a tremendously well built rocket ship.
As an aside, there was also a broken down DB9 parked up ....
(Not to forget sincere thanks to Barry Horne, who was patient with me and gave me a wonderful experience.)
Edited by chrisw. on Saturday 28th October 19:32
Edited by chrisw. on Saturday 28th October 19:32
Also enjoyed Millbrook and found the Hill route difficult to get right on first acquaintance and even more difficult without using the brakes; but a most entertaining morning without a doubt.
Having lived with the car for a little while now I haven't noticed any transmission shunt but do find there is a momentary lag, which is more noticeable in Sport mode. Having said that the 500 ft lb shove is worth the wait and out on the open road overtaking opportunities are not often lost on account of lag! On the track it might be different but then I wouldn't get a TT if I wanted a track car.
It is a couple of years since I was in the 996TT but assessing how much I enjoyed driving it at the time as compared with the 997C2S and now the 997TT I would put them all about on a par without any one being head and shoulders above the others.
Best value for your money today? Probably a toss up between a nearly new 997S or a 3 year old 996TT.(Forgive me if I have the relativities a little out) Do I wish I had saved my money and not bought the 997TT. No sir. It is a superb car for what I want and whilst others are having the extra hour in bed tomorrow I shall be taking advantage of the quiet roads and trying not to nod off with boredom!
Having lived with the car for a little while now I haven't noticed any transmission shunt but do find there is a momentary lag, which is more noticeable in Sport mode. Having said that the 500 ft lb shove is worth the wait and out on the open road overtaking opportunities are not often lost on account of lag! On the track it might be different but then I wouldn't get a TT if I wanted a track car.
It is a couple of years since I was in the 996TT but assessing how much I enjoyed driving it at the time as compared with the 997C2S and now the 997TT I would put them all about on a par without any one being head and shoulders above the others.
Best value for your money today? Probably a toss up between a nearly new 997S or a 3 year old 996TT.(Forgive me if I have the relativities a little out) Do I wish I had saved my money and not bought the 997TT. No sir. It is a superb car for what I want and whilst others are having the extra hour in bed tomorrow I shall be taking advantage of the quiet roads and trying not to nod off with boredom!
Darren, darren, darren !!!!
you are not going to be happy until you get a GT ! I'm out on a drive tomorrow with Jason's GT , and will be looking at it very closely
anyway, if you don't like yours i'll have it... (as long as it's not in yellow!)
[quote=dealmaker]
Has the marques over-reliance on the (litigous) US market reuslted in the most boring ever incarnation of the 911 blood line?...the 997TT??
I had one on an extended test drive and it bored me to tears - I've ended up pulling my order - and horror of horror I'm thinking of buying a Ford instead!! (albeit a rather fast one with 550bhp) - it's a crying shame it's come to this!
Furthemore has the brand lost some appeal in becoming too "mass market"? I remember when I picked up my first 911 (1988) - it was a special car - and the dealer/customer relationship was special - now with all these Cayenne's, Caymans, Boxsters and whatever else they are going to be launching, you get better service and sense of "enthusiasm" at the local Lexus dealer!
I never thought I'd see the day that I wouldnt have a 911 of some sort but I fear my current 997 C4S will be my last!
dealmaker said:
Dr S said:
Try the GT3RS before you join the Fiesta team...
Yeah - I have discussed ordering a GT3RS (in Signal/Viper Green - same as my old 964 RS...mmmmmmm) with the OPC - probably get a slot mid next year.
The Ford GT (with a few small mods giving 650bhp) might be a nice fill-in until then!
I am intrigued though by the concept of either a Ruf modified 997TT (I hear they are bringing out a range of mods in December)...or even what the team at Ruf could do with my current 997C4S??
GT2 (997) has to fit into the potential list as well - the range, and choice, is just so huge now.....and therein lies part of the problem.....I must pass 25 other 996/997's on my way to work!!
I've had a 911 of one sort another (including 993GT2, 964RS, GT3 Mk1 & Mk2 & GT3RS, etc. etc) for over 17 years now (bought my first- a guards red 911 SSC - on finance when I was 21!) and in more recent times I have had to have the "tamer" versions becuase I needed the extra seats in the back for ocassional use for the kids. Now with other things in the fleet, I can afford the luxury of another pure two seater in the dealmaker garage - I'm just comimg to the conclusion that the 911 line isn't as "special", to me anyway, than it once was!
Personally I think we are all screwed or soon will be if the government gets their way and I am sure they will. My first 911 was an 1989 3.2 back in 1992 and that started the love affair with the 911. A 911 that you could have great fun at sensible speeds. 997 and 996 tt's are probably fantastic cars but to sanitised and to safe. For me the fun is driving a car that will bite you in the arse if you do not give it the respect that it deserves or understand what makes it tick. 964RS's are not monumentally fast but again great fun at half sensible speeds. A few years back I took the missus through wheathamstead to harpenden to drop my 2.7RS replica off at the garage and pick up my 965 3.6 turbo. We were doing around 90mph and she kept on telling me to slow down. On the way back in the 3.6 were pulling 110mph and not a word. Its all about perception of speed and the enjoyment we get from it. The 2.7RS 4th to 5th at 110mph the 3.6 4th to 5th at 165mph. 2.7RS a ban 3.6 turbo prison. Craner curves at Donnington on three quarters throttle and the back end sliding or nailed in the floor and the back end nailed down still sliding but much much faster. Thats the beauty of the 911 pre electronic gizmo's. Having the balls to push it beyond what you would think the limit is and then finding out there is a whole lot more. That is what makes the proper 911 the best car in the world. If you can master a proper 911 then everthing else is easy. (anyone know of a yellowbird for sale) cheers Graeme
p.s. A true 911 does not have stabiliy management control.
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