first service repairs
Discussion
Who'd have thought it eh! took the car in for its first full service (12k) to GT1 in chertsey last week. Had peter morgan report done before purchase so knew I had one or two other issues to address.
Where does the list start! Ended up spending 2500 quid and still not fixing up all the little bits and pieces! I am being naive or is this just what to expect if you buy a 10 year old porsche with the intention of actually mainting it as it should be maintained regardless of cost.
I actually found the chaps at GT1 very honest and reasonable but over the next 6 months I am still looking at a new set of brakes, tyres and still some other little bits and pieces around the car. I also have additionaly joy of knowing that I will need a clutch in 5-10k miles! I reckon that I am looking at another 2500-3000 to get the car fully sorted - which is actually not too bad when one thinks about it as 5000 to make a 10 year old 993 mint.
I also want to report one other issue which will please the 996 lovers no end. Craid at GT1 has reported a slight RMS sweat! I asked partially in ignorance " I thought that was only a problem with 996's" his reply was that it is a problem with all 911's just that the 996 is particularly susceptible due to it being a worse built car and so on!
Let me know if you guys think that 5k to turn a decent 993 to a mint one is good value! comments or piss takes about the amount I have spent is acceptbale too!
Where does the list start! Ended up spending 2500 quid and still not fixing up all the little bits and pieces! I am being naive or is this just what to expect if you buy a 10 year old porsche with the intention of actually mainting it as it should be maintained regardless of cost.
I actually found the chaps at GT1 very honest and reasonable but over the next 6 months I am still looking at a new set of brakes, tyres and still some other little bits and pieces around the car. I also have additionaly joy of knowing that I will need a clutch in 5-10k miles! I reckon that I am looking at another 2500-3000 to get the car fully sorted - which is actually not too bad when one thinks about it as 5000 to make a 10 year old 993 mint.
I also want to report one other issue which will please the 996 lovers no end. Craid at GT1 has reported a slight RMS sweat! I asked partially in ignorance " I thought that was only a problem with 996's" his reply was that it is a problem with all 911's just that the 996 is particularly susceptible due to it being a worse built car and so on!
Let me know if you guys think that 5k to turn a decent 993 to a mint one is good value! comments or piss takes about the amount I have spent is acceptbale too!
doesnt really surprise me. you are the new owner, you want it all to be right. who knows how long the last owner has been pondering a sale, and what effect that has had on the level of maintenence. I dont think £2.5k is unsurprising - when I bought a thoroughly inspected 944 6 yrs ago for £5k the first bill to service, correct minor identified niggles and renew pads/discs was over 20% of the value of the car! Suspect yours is around 10%?
Jeez, that's pretty steep. I have a 993 also so I would be interested in the list. I am guessing that you are looking at a combination of refurbishment and maintainance.
Also, if you're handy with the spanners you can do some basic work, pads and discs for example, and make a good saving.
pp
Also, if you're handy with the spanners you can do some basic work, pads and discs for example, and make a good saving.
pp
ok guys here is the list of work done and parts supplied (list1) and here is the list of work needed (list2)- i know I have undertaken some unnecessary or un urgent work but my first porker and want everything to be tip top!
List 1:
12k service, replace steering rack dampner joints,replace front lower control arm, 4 x wheel alignment, rectify n/s w/washer n/w -pipe crimped, rectify n/s/f side lightn/w - replace bulb, replace fan belt sensor, replace worn fan and alternator belts, replace rear wiper blade, replace PAS drive seal and O ring - leaking onto heat exchanger, , R?Roil level tank sender unit - leaking , replace front lower floorpan grommit and wax as requested, check ftont diff oil level, replace cracked HT leads, removal of heavily siezed engine oil, screen wash, pollen filter, oil filter - oil tank, oil filter - engine, mobil 1 engine oil 15w50, brake cleanser/degreasant, sump/engine seal ring, air filter, lower control arm 993 l/h, lower control arm 993 r/h, gearbox oil XHP, sump washer, ignition lead set,fan belt sensor, track rod ball joint/damper 993, oil level sender unit, rotor arm 964/993, rotor arm 964/993, distributor cap, 993 PAS drive housing O ring, 993 PAS drive housing seal, 60mm-60mm jubilee clips, wurth wax, floorpan/light housing breather grommit, bulb, gasket,transmission fluid, zymol.
List 2:
headlamp washers not working, bonnet struuts worn, engine lid light not working,front luggage compartment screw missing, o/s/f fog light chip, new front and rear brakes required (£900), new tyres required , rear bumper stay mounts on PU broken, rear cat heat shield corroded, chain chest gaskets sweating, rms sweating, front crankshaft seal leaking, minor gear box oil leak, new clutch in 5-10k miles.
As you can see guys, I have told Craig to make me up a list of what work is required until it is mint!
Sounds a lot eh but then it really will be as it left the factory.
I reckon I am probably looking at another 2500 - 3500 to do the remainder. what do you guys think?
Also do you think I overpaid for the initial work i have had done? As i said, I found Craig to be a decent and honest enough chap and would certainly recommend him (as long as the general consensus is that he hasn't kippered me!)
opinions valued
List 1:
12k service, replace steering rack dampner joints,replace front lower control arm, 4 x wheel alignment, rectify n/s w/washer n/w -pipe crimped, rectify n/s/f side lightn/w - replace bulb, replace fan belt sensor, replace worn fan and alternator belts, replace rear wiper blade, replace PAS drive seal and O ring - leaking onto heat exchanger, , R?Roil level tank sender unit - leaking , replace front lower floorpan grommit and wax as requested, check ftont diff oil level, replace cracked HT leads, removal of heavily siezed engine oil, screen wash, pollen filter, oil filter - oil tank, oil filter - engine, mobil 1 engine oil 15w50, brake cleanser/degreasant, sump/engine seal ring, air filter, lower control arm 993 l/h, lower control arm 993 r/h, gearbox oil XHP, sump washer, ignition lead set,fan belt sensor, track rod ball joint/damper 993, oil level sender unit, rotor arm 964/993, rotor arm 964/993, distributor cap, 993 PAS drive housing O ring, 993 PAS drive housing seal, 60mm-60mm jubilee clips, wurth wax, floorpan/light housing breather grommit, bulb, gasket,transmission fluid, zymol.
List 2:
headlamp washers not working, bonnet struuts worn, engine lid light not working,front luggage compartment screw missing, o/s/f fog light chip, new front and rear brakes required (£900), new tyres required , rear bumper stay mounts on PU broken, rear cat heat shield corroded, chain chest gaskets sweating, rms sweating, front crankshaft seal leaking, minor gear box oil leak, new clutch in 5-10k miles.
As you can see guys, I have told Craig to make me up a list of what work is required until it is mint!
Sounds a lot eh but then it really will be as it left the factory.
I reckon I am probably looking at another 2500 - 3500 to do the remainder. what do you guys think?
Also do you think I overpaid for the initial work i have had done? As i said, I found Craig to be a decent and honest enough chap and would certainly recommend him (as long as the general consensus is that he hasn't kippered me!)
opinions valued
I use JZM who I've found to do stirling work with reasonable labour rates, however the service bill often comes out as greater than the sum I paid for my runabout car 
Sometimes you can ask them to source parts from ECP etc. rather than Porsche which can save, have a chat about stuff with them. Anything you can do competently yourself will also save, when I got my car the first thing I did was replace the struts for the tail-lid and bonnet, I also cleaned out the big washer bottle (left hand side - you'd be amazed the amount of mud/etc that gets trapped up there) and also changed the back rotors and pads (couldn't do the front ones so I supplied my parts).
Usually each service includes some extra stuff each time: e.g. shuttle valve seats, air pump removal etc. are paced a bit. Next time it may be bushes and corner weighting/setup. They were expensive in their day and service costs are part of the reason that they are more affordable now, you also need to bear in mind that BMW M series owners often have the same thing or worse, and I'd prefer my money went on a porsche any day of the week!
Sometimes you can ask them to source parts from ECP etc. rather than Porsche which can save, have a chat about stuff with them. Anything you can do competently yourself will also save, when I got my car the first thing I did was replace the struts for the tail-lid and bonnet, I also cleaned out the big washer bottle (left hand side - you'd be amazed the amount of mud/etc that gets trapped up there) and also changed the back rotors and pads (couldn't do the front ones so I supplied my parts). Usually each service includes some extra stuff each time: e.g. shuttle valve seats, air pump removal etc. are paced a bit. Next time it may be bushes and corner weighting/setup. They were expensive in their day and service costs are part of the reason that they are more affordable now, you also need to bear in mind that BMW M series owners often have the same thing or worse, and I'd prefer my money went on a porsche any day of the week!
For the work done price sounds reasonable, if nobody told you before these cars are not cheap to run, especially if you want to run them day to day. Your probally paying for a few years of neglect by a previous keeper. Remember though that what you spend on the up keep of the car can be off set by the low depreciation.
997gt3 said:
Cant really make a judgement without knowing:-
a) How much you paid for the car in the first place?
b) What mileage has the car done?
c) Overall condition/faults on purchase?
d) List of things that needed doing within this £5k?
Phil
a) How much you paid for the car in the first place?
b) What mileage has the car done?
c) Overall condition/faults on purchase?
d) List of things that needed doing within this £5k?
Phil
Just depends on the answers to a) and b)
The labour rate of £50 per hour is very good. I pay £68+vat in the West Midlands.
The list appears reasonable given that you asked for it to be made as good as new. I recognise a lot of the items as typical 993. Personally, I don't bother with "sweating" oil seals. It is only when they allow a drip of oil that I think they require attention.
You can save money by combining some jobs. The rear PU stays require the removal of the rear PU as does changing the cat heat shield etc.
Also, if you are going to have a clutch change then things like HT leads are a lot easier with the engine out.
Are you really going to pay someone to fit new wiper blades for you?
pp
Good luck
The list appears reasonable given that you asked for it to be made as good as new. I recognise a lot of the items as typical 993. Personally, I don't bother with "sweating" oil seals. It is only when they allow a drip of oil that I think they require attention.
You can save money by combining some jobs. The rear PU stays require the removal of the rear PU as does changing the cat heat shield etc.
Also, if you are going to have a clutch change then things like HT leads are a lot easier with the engine out.
Are you really going to pay someone to fit new wiper blades for you?
pp
Good luck
Chrrrrrrrrrrrrist 
Did the PPI show up all that stuff (like clutch, brakes, everything leaking etc...)
If not I'd be wanting to know why?!
Sounds like the last owner knew it was coming up to need a shit load of work and got rid. Did you get a good price or pay "retail?" If you paid £6000 under the price of a minter then great, but....
If you paid retail you were turned over, mate - they sold you a car which is leaking like mad, needs new tyres, new brakes, a new clutch, new heat shields, new steering and has a load of broken parts!
Did the PPI show up all that stuff (like clutch, brakes, everything leaking etc...)
If not I'd be wanting to know why?!
Sounds like the last owner knew it was coming up to need a shit load of work and got rid. Did you get a good price or pay "retail?" If you paid £6000 under the price of a minter then great, but....
If you paid retail you were turned over, mate - they sold you a car which is leaking like mad, needs new tyres, new brakes, a new clutch, new heat shields, new steering and has a load of broken parts!
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Tuesday 12th December 09:29
Well the guys at GT1 are good, though not cheap. That is an extensive list - I'm suprised more wasn't picked up on the PPI
I run my 993 and indeed all my cars to a good not mint standard. striving for everthing mint as cars get older is v expensive, and in my opinion unneccesary but some people have to have it that way
I run my 993 and indeed all my cars to a good not mint standard. striving for everthing mint as cars get older is v expensive, and in my opinion unneccesary but some people have to have it that way
Yes the inspection showed up brakes, clutch, tyres plus other little bits - It did not show up any of the sweats, control arms, suspension bushers/dampeners etc!
Yes, I did neg someway below the asking price as otherwise it would have been overpriced! the mileage is 65 000. the rest of the car is in v good condition! -
Yes - the previos owner had clearly been thinking about the sale for a while and had not maintained the car for the final year or so as I would have done - but again i suspected this before I bought as the guy told me he bought it ' get something out of his system' - would not normally look at a car that someone has bought to do that with but he only did about 4k in 18 months so he clearly didnt get that much out of his system!
Anyhow - great car, lovely drive and look!
Yes, I did neg someway below the asking price as otherwise it would have been overpriced! the mileage is 65 000. the rest of the car is in v good condition! -
Yes - the previos owner had clearly been thinking about the sale for a while and had not maintained the car for the final year or so as I would have done - but again i suspected this before I bought as the guy told me he bought it ' get something out of his system' - would not normally look at a car that someone has bought to do that with but he only did about 4k in 18 months so he clearly didnt get that much out of his system!
Anyhow - great car, lovely drive and look!
peppersgonecrazy said:
Yes the inspection showed up brakes, clutch, tyres plus other little bits - It did not show up any of the sweats, control arms, suspension bushers/dampeners etc!
Yes, I did neg someway below the asking price as otherwise it would have been overpriced! the mileage is 65 000. the rest of the car is in v good condition! -
Yes - the previos owner had clearly been thinking about the sale for a while and had not maintained the car for the final year or so as I would have done - but again i suspected this before I bought as the guy told me he bought it ' get something out of his system' - would not normally look at a car that someone has bought to do that with but he only did about 4k in 18 months so he clearly didnt get that much out of his system!
Anyhow - great car, lovely drive and look!
Yes, I did neg someway below the asking price as otherwise it would have been overpriced! the mileage is 65 000. the rest of the car is in v good condition! -
Yes - the previos owner had clearly been thinking about the sale for a while and had not maintained the car for the final year or so as I would have done - but again i suspected this before I bought as the guy told me he bought it ' get something out of his system' - would not normally look at a car that someone has bought to do that with but he only did about 4k in 18 months so he clearly didnt get that much out of his system!
Anyhow - great car, lovely drive and look!
Hmmm...
softinthehead said:
when I bought a thoroughly inspected 944 6 yrs ago for £5k the first bill to service, correct minor identified niggles and renew pads/discs was over 20% of the value of the car!
I have just paid nearly 17% of the cost of my (supposedly 'excellent') 944 to have the belts and a rear wheel bearing changed after 7 months of ownership ... These cars cost money to run. I am realising that. One of the questions you need to ask is 'to what standard do I want this car maintained?' I'm not suggesting that you should skimp on the servicing, but things like little bits of trim can be very expensive. I know that there are a couple of clip-on carpet studs missing in the boot of my car because I don't want to shell out £££ to buy new ones. If I was fussy, I would buy them.
DIY maintenance can save a packet. If you have space, time and tools then it is well worth a go at this. My pricey belt and bearing change was offset by a DIY service for around £40.
Oli.
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