Need some advice - Is my Service Centre ripping me off?
Discussion
Geneve said:
hutchingsp said:
I keep hearing "Corroded Discs" popping up with regard to OPCs. Is there a reason for this as I only seem to read it in relation to Porsche?
That can be a problem on quite a few modern cars especially Porsches, partly through design and materials, partly through owner negligence (see the handbook).
Corroded discs are now an MOT failure. However, if the discs are thick enough they can be skimmed.
Pretty much the same info, just with pretty colour pictures:
www.jzmachtech.com/shells/diagnostics_detailed.php?id_diag=73
edited to add:
If in doubt with what your service center has told you, take it to a local independent to get a second opinion from another professional as others in this thread have done.
Edited by 2something on Monday 29th January 20:51
Is this the same Mr Klump who said not long ago
"The real villian here is the manufacturer who gets away with selling utter crap !"
The attitude problem started with Porsche and AFN many years ago and is now pretty much endemic with PCGB and the current OPCs.
Although just to maintain a balanced view, there are some good OPCs and some other manufacturers who are just as bad as Porsche.
And I have had tyres fitted by my OPC in the past becsue they actually came up with a reasonably competitive price, so I'm not completely biased.
"The real villian here is the manufacturer who gets away with selling utter crap !"
The attitude problem started with Porsche and AFN many years ago and is now pretty much endemic with PCGB and the current OPCs.
Although just to maintain a balanced view, there are some good OPCs and some other manufacturers who are just as bad as Porsche.
And I have had tyres fitted by my OPC in the past becsue they actually came up with a reasonably competitive price, so I'm not completely biased.
hutchingsp said:
Hmm.. so should a 40 mile round trip to work each day down dual carriageways be sufficient to keep the brakes in good fettle or is it best to do the odd "stamping" to give them a good workout?
The problem usually occurs when the car is wet, or cleaned and garaged, with water in the drill holes. This dribbles down the back of the discs and corrosion developes. Usually a bigger problem on low mileage cars.
Best tip I can give if you must use the OPC for the service stamp, get them to do the fixed price service and anything else they advise either form your own opinion or take it to a good Indy who will charge a fraction of OPC price to fix the problem.
[/quote]
I agree. Chiswick OPC does my service so I get the stamp and any warranty work they find. Then with the report they give on all the other bits I take it to JAZ in west London. Usualy JAZ tell me all is well and to check back with them in 6 months. Incidently JAZ look after 911Virgins race car and end up with allot of non-warranty work from Chiswick!
Fulla said:
Best tip I can give if you must use the OPC for the service stamp, get them to do the fixed price service and anything else they advise either form your own opinion or take it to a good Indy who will charge a fraction of OPC price to fix the problem.
I agree. Chiswick OPC does my service so I get the stamp and any warranty work they find. Then with the report they give on all the other bits I take it to JAZ in west London. Usualy JAZ tell me all is well and to check back with them in 6 months. Incidently JAZ look after 911Virgins race car and end up with allot of non-warranty work from Chiswick![/quote]
Sorry for the stupid question but by JAZ do you mean JZ Machtech (M25 jct 20) or someone else? No experience of using indys but service from my local OPC (funnily enough West London) is totally crap so would like to find a good one to start using for my car.
Cheers.
PorkScratching said:
Sorry for the stupid question but by JAZ do you mean JZ Machtech (M25 jct 20) or someone else? No experience of using indys but service from my local OPC (funnily enough West London) is totally crap so would like to find a good one to start using for my car.
Cheers.
JAZ - nearly Wembley - www.jazweb.co.uk (site seems down at the moment)
JZM - M25 junction 20 - www.jzmachtech.com
www.911virgin.com/spanners.htm - has some views on both of the above and some others
Plenty of people on here will have an opinion on both/either.
Edited by 2something on Monday 29th January 22:22
PorkScratching said:
Fulla said:
Best tip I can give if you must use the OPC for the service stamp, get them to do the fixed price service and anything else they advise either form your own opinion or take it to a good Indy who will charge a fraction of OPC price to fix the problem.
I agree. Chiswick OPC does my service so I get the stamp and any warranty work they find. Then with the report they give on all the other bits I take it to JAZ in west London. Usualy JAZ tell me all is well and to check back with them in 6 months. Incidently JAZ look after 911Virgins race car and end up with allot of non-warranty work from Chiswick!
Sorry for the stupid question but by JAZ do you mean JZ Machtech (M25 jct 20) or someone else? No experience of using indys but service from my local OPC (funnily enough West London) is totally crap so would like to find a good one to start using for my car.
Cheers.
[/quote]
Quote was from PaulBurrel on first page not me. And JAZ be the one by that new stadium due for completion 3008.....
sherman klump said:
Just because i criticised Porsche for making crap engines doesnt mean i cant say that some service recommendations might be valid
Whats a troll please ?
Whats a troll please ?
Some recommendations are valid, certainly.
Brake discs can glaze over, rust and crack but it doesn't mean they need replacing as soon as any of these things happen. I've had these 'recommendations' when my 996 has been in for service. It's either ignorance, lack of training or a try-on when they suggest new discs as soon as they see evidence of wear. They have never justified it to me with measurements or anything objective. And then when they charge you way over the odds for the bits, you've got to feel a little bit used, surely?
As an example, have you actually noticed how much an OPC charges you for engine oil when they change it during a service?
Oh, and this is a troll:
Not to tout for business but by way of general comparison - Front discs and pads £360.00 +Vat (less £25.00 if combined with 24K major gold service £550.00+ Vat), Rattly exhaust - probably heat shields - perhaps uner £60.00, wheel alignment £50.00/check (FOC IF with previous service) and £15.00/adjustment (usually 3 or 4 needed), tyres, oil as stated by others = a lot less than you were quoted.
Baz Hartech
Baz Hartech
bspecial,
The figures for the tyres are extortionate. The discs may be skimmable. The exhaust should not need replacing on a 2003 car. The geometry check is about right for the OPC system (and worthwhile if you have 4 new tyres). So, yes, you are right to feel aggrieved, and I suggest you let them know.
However, my experience with OPCs has always been pretty good, although I use JZM for my earlier cars. Yes, you do pay more through an OPC, but a good one will run through the costs, let you know the options, and apply the PCGB discount. So don't tar them all with the same brush.
The figures for the tyres are extortionate. The discs may be skimmable. The exhaust should not need replacing on a 2003 car. The geometry check is about right for the OPC system (and worthwhile if you have 4 new tyres). So, yes, you are right to feel aggrieved, and I suggest you let them know.
However, my experience with OPCs has always been pretty good, although I use JZM for my earlier cars. Yes, you do pay more through an OPC, but a good one will run through the costs, let you know the options, and apply the PCGB discount. So don't tar them all with the same brush.
Sherman, take off those rose tinted glasses you got free from the wholesaler [I jest] and have a good look at this thread.
Porsche love punters who know little about their cars, and who just want to spend money. Anyone with any serious understanding of their car really isn't that well liked by Porsche, and most of us are on here.
Mr Cardiac Surgeon isn't on here, he's at his private clinic doing a cabbage.
He'll pay no question, and smile when he does it.
The rest us of us, well we're in the- "OPC the games up, we know what you're about-Club"
No doubt you posted with good intentions, and fair play to you, thats a good attribute. But anyone who's had experience with OPC will attest that they really are only in it for the money, and thats how they get to have state of the art showrooms, and salesmen in shiney suits.
A Troll is a poster on the wind up,sh1t stirrer or thread steerer.
Porsche love punters who know little about their cars, and who just want to spend money. Anyone with any serious understanding of their car really isn't that well liked by Porsche, and most of us are on here.
Mr Cardiac Surgeon isn't on here, he's at his private clinic doing a cabbage.
He'll pay no question, and smile when he does it.
The rest us of us, well we're in the- "OPC the games up, we know what you're about-Club"
No doubt you posted with good intentions, and fair play to you, thats a good attribute. But anyone who's had experience with OPC will attest that they really are only in it for the money, and thats how they get to have state of the art showrooms, and salesmen in shiney suits.
A Troll is a poster on the wind up,sh1t stirrer or thread steerer.
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Tuesday 30th January 10:29
Certainly its possible to get a better deal going elsewhere, however i do find OPC's good value for Annual check, oil change ( i supply it) gearbox oil and brake fluid change which is what i use them for.
BTW - My wifes Golf just come back from Major service from official dealer.
When i file the docs realised MOT had run out. Service gave advise on rear disks and pads and all tyres, 2mm / 3mm.
Car subsequently failed MOT (the same day) on both rear tyres "has a bulge, caused by separation or partial failure of its structure"
Was left bemused....
Examined them myself and think that VW were a little light on their advice and should have been stronger on the left rear tyre. I also think the MOT station were a little keen on the right rear tyre as it looked OK to me.
Conclusion - you cannot really trust a stranger with your car
BTW - My wifes Golf just come back from Major service from official dealer.
When i file the docs realised MOT had run out. Service gave advise on rear disks and pads and all tyres, 2mm / 3mm.
Car subsequently failed MOT (the same day) on both rear tyres "has a bulge, caused by separation or partial failure of its structure"
Was left bemused....
Examined them myself and think that VW were a little light on their advice and should have been stronger on the left rear tyre. I also think the MOT station were a little keen on the right rear tyre as it looked OK to me.
Conclusion - you cannot really trust a stranger with your car
Pickled Piper said:
hutchingsp said:
I keep hearing "Corroded Discs" popping up with regard to OPCs. Is there a reason for this as I only seem to read it in relation to Porsche?
It may be true. It's possible that they have a higher ferrous content and are therefore more prone to surface corrosion. Mine certainly appears to get a surface layer far quicker than my other cars parked alsongside it on the driveway. However, surface corrosion does not necessitate changing the disks. All you need to do is drive the car and use the brakes as they were designed to be used. In a Porsche this means very hard indeed. Nine times out of ten an "Italian" tune up will get rid of any surface corrosion problems.
pp
Brake discs are pure cast iron. They have no non ferrous content. The only variation is the grain structure but this will not cause rust, when the car parked next to it is fine.
If you get a scraping sound, this is almost certainly the dust shield touching the disc. The causes are either you moving it when cleaning the wheels, or the rust lip on the outer edge of the disc bridging the gap. The solution is to bend the shields away, it won't need more than 1mm and the rust on the outer lip will have no effect on the braking performance.
OPCs are fleecing people badly with this one. The only thing that should lead to discs being changed is them being warped, or being down to their minimum thickness. The pads are permanently wearing the faces away and any surface rust is removed every time the brake pedal is pressed.
Any surface rust on non friction surfaces is irrelevant to their performance.
Raven Flyer said:
The only thing that should lead to discs being changed is them being warped, or being down to their minimum thickness. The pads are permanently wearing the faces away and any surface rust is removed every time the brake pedal is pressed.
Not sure I really agree with this. I recently replaced discs, as I bought the car with Porterfield pads on which are a very hard compound, and were wearing the discs quicker than the pads were wearing. Brake performance was deteriorating, and my discs were badly scored, but discs and pads both had plenty of thickness left to them. I replaced discs and put softer pads on. My discs weren't at minimum thickness, but they'd have ruined new pads had I just stuck a less aggressive compound on. After the swap, they worked much better again.
Agree with all the comments that a few very firm presses quickly cleans all surface rust off the pads. Or drive 500 yards in 2nd year with one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake. Lovely and shiny!
Edited by willdew on Tuesday 30th January 12:58
Help please? Miserable as sin - and I'm really sorry I don't have anythihg positive to add to this tale, except join in: have had my BoxsterS serviced for a couple of years by Speedway on Finchley road {ldn, nw3}who seemed to be doing alright, and were much closer to home than Portiacraft {who seemed to be doing the "ever increasing bills" thing}. Then just now switched to Porscheworx in Belsize, who of course has slagged them off mightily and now I've got a big bill. How do I know I'm not being ripped off AGAIN? And please don't say go to Porsche Hatfield - tried them last summer and my experience was just dire - had to return the car 4 times for them to fully fix a simple problem. Can anyone recommend a trustowrthy Porsche garage near NW3? Or should I just give up and book myself on the nearest mechanic's course?
Ladykatherineg said:
Help please? Miserable as sin - and I'm really sorry I don't have anythihg positive to add to this tale, except join in: have had my BoxsterS serviced for a couple of years by Speedway on Finchley road {ldn, nw3}who seemed to be doing alright, and were much closer to home than Portiacraft {who seemed to be doing the "ever increasing bills" thing}. Then just now switched to Porscheworx in Belsize, who of course has slagged them off mightily and now I've got a big bill. How do I know I'm not being ripped off AGAIN? And please don't say go to Porsche Hatfield - tried them last summer and my experience was just dire - had to return the car 4 times for them to fully fix a simple problem. Can anyone recommend a trustowrthy Porsche garage near NW3? Or should I just give up and book myself on the nearest mechanic's course?
Have you been to the workshop and asked them to talk you through the problems one at a time, and show you? I find very few people willing to lie straight someone's face. 9 times out of 10 you can see when something's knackered or not. And if they show you worn brake pads for example, but the warning light's not on, ask them if the warning light's broken? If it isn't, thank them for their help and say you'll have them done when the light comes on. If they say a part's worn, get them to demonstrate there's play in it. Then, if/when you have a list of the jobs that need doing, and a quote for the work, post in on here and I'm sure there's be people along who can confirm if the price seems fair for the job that needs doing.
I don't have first hand experience of any of the places you mention. But it's worth traveling a bit further afield to someone you know to be without reproach when it comes to doing what's "necessary" and what might he 1/2 way through it's life expectancy.
Just don't be scared to ask them lots of questions to justify the work that they say needs doing. And then you make the decision yourself, which elements of that work you want them to actually do for you.
Ladykatherineg said:
Help please? Miserable as sin - and I'm really sorry I don't have anythihg positive to add to this tale, except join in: have had my BoxsterS serviced for a couple of years by Speedway on Finchley road {ldn, nw3}who seemed to be doing alright, and were much closer to home than Portiacraft {who seemed to be doing the "ever increasing bills" thing}. Then just now switched to Porscheworx in Belsize, who of course has slagged them off mightily and now I've got a big bill. How do I know I'm not being ripped off AGAIN? And please don't say go to Porsche Hatfield - tried them last summer and my experience was just dire - had to return the car 4 times for them to fully fix a simple problem. Can anyone recommend a trustowrthy Porsche garage near NW3? Or should I just give up and book myself on the nearest mechanic's course?
JAZ - nearly Wembley - www.jazweb.co.uk (site seems down at the moment, tel: 0208 903 1118, seems no-one picking up the phone ...)
JZM - M25 junction 20 - www.jzmachtech.com
www.911virgin.com/spanners.htm - has some views on both of the above and some others
Plenty of people on here will have an opinion on both/either.
JAZ is obviously pretty close to NW3, you can even pop into IKEA on the way back.I have never been there personaly, but it shouldn't be too hard to take the Metropolitan line from Wembley Park back to Finchley Road.
JZM is where I take mine and in my *personal view* they have been good. Getting back to NW3 from Kings Langley isn't ideal, but they do have rental cars if you're lucky.
edited to add:
previous post that might be interesting reading, though it's pretty old.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&t=107993
Edited by 2something on Tuesday 30th January 14:01
Edited by 2something on Tuesday 30th January 14:43
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