Discussion
Apologies if this has been done before.
You may (or may not) remember my interest in a 928 for restoring a few months ago. Well, this has kick started a Porker interest in both my wife and I. One thing is, she says "not a 911".
I'm quite taken with the 944 (especially a turbo), the 928 looks nice, but is a bit too expensive to run (or so everyone keeps telling me), the 968 is too expensive to buy, and then there's the 924....hmm, decisions, decisions. I've got to sell my MGB first (I've been told that three cars just for me to drive is too many), besides, the B will fund the purchase. She's not in too bad a nick, so I'll be hoping for about £5k.
So with £5k (max) to spend, what would you buy and why? As I said above, I'm thinking 944 Turbo which may need a bit of work, but I'm willing to listen to what you guys have to say.
Sheepy
You may (or may not) remember my interest in a 928 for restoring a few months ago. Well, this has kick started a Porker interest in both my wife and I. One thing is, she says "not a 911".
I'm quite taken with the 944 (especially a turbo), the 928 looks nice, but is a bit too expensive to run (or so everyone keeps telling me), the 968 is too expensive to buy, and then there's the 924....hmm, decisions, decisions. I've got to sell my MGB first (I've been told that three cars just for me to drive is too many), besides, the B will fund the purchase. She's not in too bad a nick, so I'll be hoping for about £5k.
So with £5k (max) to spend, what would you buy and why? As I said above, I'm thinking 944 Turbo which may need a bit of work, but I'm willing to listen to what you guys have to say.
Sheepy
You're more likely to get an S2 for that price that's in better condition than a turbo. Depends what you want from the car: smooth, even power delivery or boooost and cheap tuning potential...
I chose the S2 as it's the best all rounder and more flexible for road use.
Wouldn't bother with a 924 if you can afford a decent 944
I chose the S2 as it's the best all rounder and more flexible for road use.
Wouldn't bother with a 924 if you can afford a decent 944
Domster,
Can you define "more of a pain in the arse to run" for me. What sort of problems did you have? What sort of runnig costs did you see?
As for the S2, is the chain tensioner as much of an issue as I've heard?
I've got the Jag for "smooth power delivery" if that's what I wanted. The Turbo appeals because it has an obvious "nutter" mode
Sheepy
Can you define "more of a pain in the arse to run" for me. What sort of problems did you have? What sort of runnig costs did you see?
As for the S2, is the chain tensioner as much of an issue as I've heard?
I've got the Jag for "smooth power delivery" if that's what I wanted. The Turbo appeals because it has an obvious "nutter" mode
Sheepy
For only 5k you run the risk of getting a very dodgy Turbo that could prove quite expensive, you could be lucky and find a bargain, but the risk is there.
A good S2 can be bought for 5k, but it will not be immaculate so it depends what you budget for running costs and whether you can do work yourself.
The S2 tensioner is only an issue if it's never been changed or changed too late and the chain has stretched and worn the sprockets. If you buy a car with no record of this get it changed immediately for under £300 as opposed to 1000's if it snaps or you need new cams
A good S2 can be bought for 5k, but it will not be immaculate so it depends what you budget for running costs and whether you can do work yourself.
The S2 tensioner is only an issue if it's never been changed or changed too late and the chain has stretched and worn the sprockets. If you buy a car with no record of this get it changed immediately for under £300 as opposed to 1000's if it snaps or you need new cams
I
My Turbo suffered from oil leaks (not serious but a pain to find and fix) and the odd misfire (seemed to go away by itself, never got to the bottom of it), but apart from that it was fine. Turbo cars always tend to have more running problems as they are more high powered per litre and more complicated in terms of extra oil ways etc.
The grunt was worth it tho' - it picked up in 5th like my S2 in 3rd. Had 152mph out of it, and it was only the 220bhp one.
The timing and balance belts do need to be checked, as they can be expensive if they fail. Sometimes cams need doing, too.
Power steering pumps and water pumps can leak on both models.
Generally, the S2 will be easier and cheaper to run, but the Turbo will be more fun. That is a typical trade off - buy a good example of either and you won't go far wrong. Buy a bad turbo and it will punish you. Buy a bad S2 and it will punish you less.
sheepy said:
Domster,
Can you define "more of a pain in the arse to run" for me. What sort of problems did you have? What sort of runnig costs did you see?
As for the S2, is the chain tensioner as much of an issue as I've heard?
Sheepy
My Turbo suffered from oil leaks (not serious but a pain to find and fix) and the odd misfire (seemed to go away by itself, never got to the bottom of it), but apart from that it was fine. Turbo cars always tend to have more running problems as they are more high powered per litre and more complicated in terms of extra oil ways etc.
The grunt was worth it tho' - it picked up in 5th like my S2 in 3rd. Had 152mph out of it, and it was only the 220bhp one.
The timing and balance belts do need to be checked, as they can be expensive if they fail. Sometimes cams need doing, too.
Power steering pumps and water pumps can leak on both models.
Generally, the S2 will be easier and cheaper to run, but the Turbo will be more fun. That is a typical trade off - buy a good example of either and you won't go far wrong. Buy a bad turbo and it will punish you. Buy a bad S2 and it will punish you less.
Cripes £5k to spend and you are looking at 924s!! blimey you can get a decent solid example of a 2.0 for £500 and a grand should get you a minter. A 924S is a slighly different different proposition using the sweet 2.5 944 lump rather than the wheezy, non high revving, preheistoric 2.0litre VW/Audi engine) being basically a 944lux without the posh frock & £1500 should bag you an absolute gem.
Short 944 buyers guide here-
www.pistonheads.com/porsche/default.asp?storyId=6090
You can get a very sweet 944Turbo for £5k, most likely a 220bhp (ive seen a lovely 220 turbo fsh good conditon 140k miles sold for £4k not long ago) but a few 250's occasionally sneak into that bracket.
A chum brought a very very nice 250 turbo SE for £6k almost a year ago, 100kmiles & FSH not a trade sale or anything- simply a normal private sale, why pay more??
Agree an S2 is the best all rounder, quick enough to keep a 220bhp 9444T, a 3.2 Carrera or early Boxster at bay and even a 250bhp 944T will not have much more grunt especially as unless its been played with its doubtfull it will still be pumping out 250bhp. (A well modded 944T however is a lot quicker)
Cam chain tensioner can indeed be a big problem if it goes, but its not big bucks to replace the chain, tensioner blade & cam/balance belts at a specialist & I would suggest unless its been done recently its the first job you have done. On that note see this scary tale- www.pistonheads.com/porsche/default.asp?storyId=5515
ps Dom only 152 from the turbo, Pah!! I saw 160 on the clock of my S2- which should still be a genuine 150'ish'
Short 944 buyers guide here-
www.pistonheads.com/porsche/default.asp?storyId=6090
You can get a very sweet 944Turbo for £5k, most likely a 220bhp (ive seen a lovely 220 turbo fsh good conditon 140k miles sold for £4k not long ago) but a few 250's occasionally sneak into that bracket.
A chum brought a very very nice 250 turbo SE for £6k almost a year ago, 100kmiles & FSH not a trade sale or anything- simply a normal private sale, why pay more??
Agree an S2 is the best all rounder, quick enough to keep a 220bhp 9444T, a 3.2 Carrera or early Boxster at bay and even a 250bhp 944T will not have much more grunt especially as unless its been played with its doubtfull it will still be pumping out 250bhp. (A well modded 944T however is a lot quicker)
Cam chain tensioner can indeed be a big problem if it goes, but its not big bucks to replace the chain, tensioner blade & cam/balance belts at a specialist & I would suggest unless its been done recently its the first job you have done. On that note see this scary tale- www.pistonheads.com/porsche/default.asp?storyId=5515
ps Dom only 152 from the turbo, Pah!! I saw 160 on the clock of my S2- which should still be a genuine 150'ish'
domster said:
The grunt was worth it tho' - it picked up in 5th like my S2 in 3rd. Had 152mph out of it, and it was only the 220bhp one.
Can the extra 9BHP make such a difference!? Maybe it was the extra weight due to the strengthening in the cabrio? Not that I've driven a turbo but I've heard they can often feel quicker due to the sudden surge of boost you get and that the S2 delivers its power without so much drama meaning one often finds oneself going rather quicker than expected 
Well I have one of everything you mentioned so far except the 944 turbo and 911. I presently have a 84 944, a 83 928-5 speed and a 1990 944 S2.
The S2 drives better than anything. The 928 is a tour de force for sure, but is more electrically sensitive than the mass produced 944 series.
For the money, the 3-liter 944 S2 is awful hard to beat. In US trim it has 208 hp and will really move. The 150-hp normally aspirated 944 is a great car too, I drove it today, and end up putting a lot of miles on it. The 928, basically because it needs a transmission rebuild right now, has not been driven as much, but those cars "have no real weaknesses" other than the abuse a previous owner gave the tranny (a cough, cough, woman who smoked the clutch).
Good luck, lemme know if you have any particulars, here is my 928 page http://sis125.berkeley.edu/928/en-mrp.html
and here is my Imagestation photo album, in case anyone is interested in seeing Middle Tennessee Porsches and Porsche roads. You have to sign up for this one, but it's free, and it has some tech info about the 944, 944 S2, and 928 www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289802879
regards to all, Dogsharks (Mr. P)
The S2 drives better than anything. The 928 is a tour de force for sure, but is more electrically sensitive than the mass produced 944 series.
For the money, the 3-liter 944 S2 is awful hard to beat. In US trim it has 208 hp and will really move. The 150-hp normally aspirated 944 is a great car too, I drove it today, and end up putting a lot of miles on it. The 928, basically because it needs a transmission rebuild right now, has not been driven as much, but those cars "have no real weaknesses" other than the abuse a previous owner gave the tranny (a cough, cough, woman who smoked the clutch).
Good luck, lemme know if you have any particulars, here is my 928 page http://sis125.berkeley.edu/928/en-mrp.html
and here is my Imagestation photo album, in case anyone is interested in seeing Middle Tennessee Porsches and Porsche roads. You have to sign up for this one, but it's free, and it has some tech info about the 944, 944 S2, and 928 www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289802879
regards to all, Dogsharks (Mr. P)
Thanks for all your replies guys. So, it looks like the 944 is a good choice, and the decision between Turbo or S2 really depends on how much I can get for the MG. If I get as much as £5k, then I can look for a good S2 or an OK Turbo, otherwise I'll probably be limited to reasonable S2. As long as I get over £4k, then I'll be 944 hunting!!!
Now all I need to do is get the B MOTd and start cleaning her up. Of course, October / November isn't the best time to sell a soft-top!
Sheepy
Now all I need to do is get the B MOTd and start cleaning her up. Of course, October / November isn't the best time to sell a soft-top!
Sheepy
iguana said:
ly 152 from the turbo, Pah!! I saw 160 on the clock of my S2- which should still be a genuine 150'ish'
Must have been down a hill or running on lizard juice - I only got 140 out of my S2 cab
That said, I ran out of bottle with the Turbo. It may have gone a bit quicker, but not bad for 220bhp AJLintern said:
The grunt was worth it tho' - it picked up in 5th like my S2 in 3rd. Had 152mph out of it, and it was only the 220bhp one.
No, you'd have to drive a 944 Turbo to believe it. The cab was a fraction heavier but not far off the pace like those tippytronic 968 cabs.
It felt more than mere turbo 'effect', probably the torque that does it. It felt like a 30-50bhp difference between them, not a 9bhp difference.
Try one and see - I think you may be trading in the S2 when you try a Turbo (especially an SE)...
domster said:
ly 152 from the turbo, Pah!! I saw 160 on the clock of my S2- which should still be a genuine 150'ish'
Must have been down a hill or running on lizard juice - I only got 140 out of my S2 cab
Downhill, windows up, sunroof shut, headlights definatly not 'up' rev limiter in 4th then bang- into 5th, foot pushin' hard as I can on the faster pedal- mashing it through carpet & into the bulkhead and no backing off for a good 2 miles and bingo.
Mine had seen a lot of well serviced & maintained hoonage with me & prevous owner & was definatly a quick example, driven other S2's (and also turbos with knackered wastgate springs) that definatly felt slower.
Cabrio will not be as quick as coupe due to extra drag of the hood & the extra strenghing lard and as an S2 will only just about crack a real 150, every fraction makes a difference.
140 is pretty dismal tho mate, even my old (suprisingly rapid) 2,5 lux would see 150 on the clock flat out (which against the measured top whack of 137(from memory & I think thats right) should mean it was a gnats todger from a real 140.
Shame the S2 is sold, coz id have liked to run it up against dontlifts modded lux at Brunters on Sunday, as it should have been pretty even, hmmm AJ Linten only lives up the road, maybe he will let me borrow his S2
Unfortunately i wont be running on sunday as I have still to do the front busches and dont fancy a high speed run with the front wheels trying to escape in different directions.......
But from memory i think i got 143 last time there (only did 3 runs before the known shited engine did what we had been expecting anyway and terminated itself with extreme prejedice.......
I would hope to crack 150 with the new one....
But from memory i think i got 143 last time there (only did 3 runs before the known shited engine did what we had been expecting anyway and terminated itself with extreme prejedice.......
I would hope to crack 150 with the new one....
domster said:
iguana said:
ly 152 from the turbo, Pah!! I saw 160 on the clock of my S2- which should still be a genuine 150'ish'
Must have been down a hill or running on lizard juice - I only got 140 out of my S2 cab
I get 272 kph (169 mph) at 6400 rpms on my speedo (pic of another S2 nearly maxed here), and several friends get the same with their cabs. If the 140mph you report was not a genuine speed figure/was a speedo figure I am afraid your S2 cab was very probably a lemon.
>> Edited by Thhom on Wednesday 8th October 20:36
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