Discussion
Just to jump in on this thread while the info is flowing....
I'm looking to sell on my MX-5 for something with 4 seats (rears only have to take young kids), RWD and fun and a 944 is top of my list. I really like the idea of an S2 over the turbo due to the prices and the idea of cheaper running costs. I worry about it feeling slow though. My early 1.6 MX-5 has a custom turbo setup on it that I've spent 3 years getting right. At 13psi with a full replacement ECU, big FMIC and big injectors I've just recorded 231 bhp at John Noble Motorsport with it. That's nearly 250bhp/tonne. Where can I find the bhp/tonne figures for the different 944 models and some tuning advice/potential for each model? I'll have a budget of about 6-7 grand once I've stripped and sold everything.
Cheers
I'm looking to sell on my MX-5 for something with 4 seats (rears only have to take young kids), RWD and fun and a 944 is top of my list. I really like the idea of an S2 over the turbo due to the prices and the idea of cheaper running costs. I worry about it feeling slow though. My early 1.6 MX-5 has a custom turbo setup on it that I've spent 3 years getting right. At 13psi with a full replacement ECU, big FMIC and big injectors I've just recorded 231 bhp at John Noble Motorsport with it. That's nearly 250bhp/tonne. Where can I find the bhp/tonne figures for the different 944 models and some tuning advice/potential for each model? I'll have a budget of about 6-7 grand once I've stripped and sold everything.
Cheers
mxroadster said:
Just to jump in on this thread while the info is flowing....
I'm looking to sell on my MX-5 for something with 4 seats (rears only have to take young kids), RWD and fun and a 944 is top of my list. I really like the idea of an S2 over the turbo due to the prices and the idea of cheaper running costs. I worry about it feeling slow though. My early 1.6 MX-5 has a custom turbo setup on it that I've spent 3 years getting right. At 13psi with a full replacement ECU, big FMIC and big injectors I've just recorded 231 bhp at John Noble Motorsport with it. That's nearly 250bhp/tonne. Where can I find the bhp/tonne figures for the different 944 models and some tuning advice/potential for each model? I'll have a budget of about 6-7 grand once I've stripped and sold everything.
Cheers
Dont worry too much about a 944 in the 0-60 charts (thats not why you buy one) - it is in the twisties where they really strut there stuff, even my 8v is a monster in the bends - and that is coming from someone who used to have the 4.X seconds TVR Chimp
Hmm, I'm not after matching the straight line speed of my current car with a standard 944, but a little poke would be nice. In the twisties is also where the MX-5 comes to life so I think I'll like a 944 
The only "data" point I have of them is that a few 944's turned up to a trackzone day at Donington once and were in my session. This was 3 yrs ago and my MX-5 was standard. We were fairly level pegging in the bends, they'd leave me on the straights and I'd catch up under braking.
P.S. If I plan 6-12 track days a year and maybe 10k road miles, would that change the choice of model?
P.P.S. Really need to get a drive of a couple. Any specialists in the SE (Berks pref) that would have a few for sale I could drive. Driven a couple of early 924's and put many miles on a mates old 928 S4 years ago but only ever passengered in a 944.
The only "data" point I have of them is that a few 944's turned up to a trackzone day at Donington once and were in my session. This was 3 yrs ago and my MX-5 was standard. We were fairly level pegging in the bends, they'd leave me on the straights and I'd catch up under braking.
P.S. If I plan 6-12 track days a year and maybe 10k road miles, would that change the choice of model?
P.P.S. Really need to get a drive of a couple. Any specialists in the SE (Berks pref) that would have a few for sale I could drive. Driven a couple of early 924's and put many miles on a mates old 928 S4 years ago but only ever passengered in a 944.
mxroadster said:
P.S. If I plan 6-12 track days a year and maybe 10k road miles, would that change the choice of model?
Take a look at my profile, if you are doing track days then #1 is get the LEDA's installed these totally transform the cars handelling (get them as stiff as you can) - i use the track day ones everyday and they are fine - 410lb springs at the front and 300's at the back (as helpers to the torsion arms) next look at the engine from a normal lux 200hp is easily achieved from as 16v alot more (but not as reliably) also there are a few supercharging kits around for these engines. but to be honest mine does 140+mph gets there feckin quickly (blueprinted engine from EMC) and on the leda's it rocks in the bends - and all for well under 6k
Springs over 400 lb 
What is comfortable on the road to one person is agonising to another. I know of some people who find the sub 200lb springs on M030 944's to be too stiff for the road. I dont.
I sure would like to feel 400 lb for myself though
Regarding MX5's.....my first ever trackday was at Donington about three years ago in my S2. There was a bunch of MX5's from the owners club in my group, and in my first session they came up behind me line astern and I duly let them past except the last one as we came upon some corners. I let him by on the next straight.
Afterwards he sought me out and gave me a mild lecture about over powerful barges holding up more nimble machinery, and he has this problem on many trackdays etc, etc. Very amicably I might add, but I think he was just a bit miffed that he got seperated from his buddies. Anyway as the day progressed and my confidence grew it was soon my turn to be catching him up and waiting for him to let me past.
On this basis I would think that a 944 will more than satisfy your handling requirements, especially if a complete novice like me can quickly start catching a reasonably experienced driver. I dont think he had your 230bhp Turbo power though
What is comfortable on the road to one person is agonising to another. I know of some people who find the sub 200lb springs on M030 944's to be too stiff for the road. I dont.
I sure would like to feel 400 lb for myself though
Regarding MX5's.....my first ever trackday was at Donington about three years ago in my S2. There was a bunch of MX5's from the owners club in my group, and in my first session they came up behind me line astern and I duly let them past except the last one as we came upon some corners. I let him by on the next straight.
Afterwards he sought me out and gave me a mild lecture about over powerful barges holding up more nimble machinery, and he has this problem on many trackdays etc, etc. Very amicably I might add, but I think he was just a bit miffed that he got seperated from his buddies. Anyway as the day progressed and my confidence grew it was soon my turn to be catching him up and waiting for him to let me past.
On this basis I would think that a 944 will more than satisfy your handling requirements, especially if a complete novice like me can quickly start catching a reasonably experienced driver. I dont think he had your 230bhp Turbo power though
Ho Ho - I think I was at the same day (did all the owners club days at Donny that year) and probably know who he is 
I have 2 people in mind - did he have a beard?
To be fair to him the MX-5's are often faster through the corners (and hence lap times) than other "quicker" machinery so it becomes frustrating to sit behind a slower car. Then again, it's just a fun day out - I'd never even consider 'having a word' with someone like this. He could have easily eased off and given you a gap then put in some aggressive laps to finish the session.
Is anyone going to point me at URL's with some good info then or do I have to search and trawl through the trash to find my info??
I have 2 people in mind - did he have a beard? To be fair to him the MX-5's are often faster through the corners (and hence lap times) than other "quicker" machinery so it becomes frustrating to sit behind a slower car. Then again, it's just a fun day out - I'd never even consider 'having a word' with someone like this. He could have easily eased off and given you a gap then put in some aggressive laps to finish the session.
Is anyone going to point me at URL's with some good info then or do I have to search and trawl through the trash to find my info??
what a coincidence eh? Specialists I can think of that sometimes stock 944's are:
www.911virgin.com
www.cridfords.co.uk
www.northwayporsche.co.uk
944's are down at the price level now that many specialists no longer stock them so private will be your best bet. There are often 944's at the Virginia Waters Pistonheads meetings but I always seem to be working so can never make it down there, or I'd let you have a ride in mine.
My recommendation would be a Turbo as they already have uprated brakes and suspension to cope with the power,and silly power is available if you need it. You could buy a very cheap 944 and put great brakes and suspension on it then a supercharger but I think in the long run that will cost more and take time. Turbo has it out of the box.
>> Edited by diver944 on Saturday 18th October 11:14
www.911virgin.com
www.cridfords.co.uk
www.northwayporsche.co.uk
944's are down at the price level now that many specialists no longer stock them so private will be your best bet. There are often 944's at the Virginia Waters Pistonheads meetings but I always seem to be working so can never make it down there, or I'd let you have a ride in mine.
My recommendation would be a Turbo as they already have uprated brakes and suspension to cope with the power,and silly power is available if you need it. You could buy a very cheap 944 and put great brakes and suspension on it then a supercharger but I think in the long run that will cost more and take time. Turbo has it out of the box.
>> Edited by diver944 on Saturday 18th October 11:14
figs from Evo-
S2 211bhp 1312kg bhp/ton 163
Turbo 250bhp 1399kg bhp/ton 181
968Cs 240bhp 1335kg bhp/ton 183
If you really want serious grunt you will have to look at a Turbo & uprate the power to a reliable & cheap to obtain 300bhp (far more is posible if you wish though) & strip down its lard- sub 1000kg is achivable with a serious diet & due to great handling they are very rapid on track, never mind an MX5 a new GT3 would be blown away with 300bhp/tonne easily achivable.
S2 can be just as able on track as a 968Cs if you buy the right bits & very high miles examples can be had for as cheap as £2k although nice ones start in the £5k area & although on paper the 968 has more power, in reality they often only have a few bhp more than an s2.
Im a real S2 fan & feel that on a small budget it will soak up the track miles better than a turbo, if the budget however is a bit larger however a tuned turbo will provide supercar humbling pace.
S2 211bhp 1312kg bhp/ton 163
Turbo 250bhp 1399kg bhp/ton 181
968Cs 240bhp 1335kg bhp/ton 183
If you really want serious grunt you will have to look at a Turbo & uprate the power to a reliable & cheap to obtain 300bhp (far more is posible if you wish though) & strip down its lard- sub 1000kg is achivable with a serious diet & due to great handling they are very rapid on track, never mind an MX5 a new GT3 would be blown away with 300bhp/tonne easily achivable.
S2 can be just as able on track as a 968Cs if you buy the right bits & very high miles examples can be had for as cheap as £2k although nice ones start in the £5k area & although on paper the 968 has more power, in reality they often only have a few bhp more than an s2.
Im a real S2 fan & feel that on a small budget it will soak up the track miles better than a turbo, if the budget however is a bit larger however a tuned turbo will provide supercar humbling pace.
How much difference does LHD make to the resale value of the car? I've been looking at 944 prices, and a decent Turbo in Germany is about £1500 to £2000 less than a similar RHD in the UK.
Awfuly tempted to look into this as an option. Obviously importing a car has it's pitfalls, but there seems to be quite a saving posible.
Sheepy
Awfuly tempted to look into this as an option. Obviously importing a car has it's pitfalls, but there seems to be quite a saving posible.
Sheepy
Well, gotta say that a 5k - 6k S2 as mint as poss is looking good so far. As I've said already I'm not looking to match my 250bhp/tonne daily driver MX-5, I want something quick and fun as a second car. I'm getting a shed (Xantia, banger money) for my commute.
I don't really want a car I have to spend lots of time working on as I have done for the past 3 years - that's out of my system now. I want 4 seats, reliable, fun, balanced RWD handling, reasonable running costs and able to handle some track action. I'm not really after another project, but adding 20 bhp or loosing 150Kg's to the S2's figures would make it more interesting to me.
Thanks for the info.
I don't really want a car I have to spend lots of time working on as I have done for the past 3 years - that's out of my system now. I want 4 seats, reliable, fun, balanced RWD handling, reasonable running costs and able to handle some track action. I'm not really after another project, but adding 20 bhp or loosing 150Kg's to the S2's figures would make it more interesting to me.
Thanks for the info.
diver944 said:
I sure would like to feel 400 lb for myself though
Welcome anytime mate at the meets or just pop over and take the old barge for a spin.....
You will find that with 400lb spings the ride is surprisingly smooth as it just tends to skip over things like pot holes etc and not drop down into them
>> Edited by DontLift on Saturday 18th October 19:44
mxroadster said:
Just to jump in on this thread while the info is flowing....
I'm looking to sell on my MX-5 for something with 4 seats (rears only have to take young kids), RWD and fun and a 944 is top of my list. I really like the idea of an S2 over the turbo due to the prices and the idea of cheaper running costs. I worry about it feeling slow though. My early 1.6 MX-5 has a custom turbo setup on it that I've spent 3 years getting right. At 13psi with a full replacement ECU, big FMIC and big injectors I've just recorded 231 bhp at John Noble Motorsport with it. That's nearly 250bhp/tonne. Where can I find the bhp/tonne figures for the different 944 models and some tuning advice/potential for each model? I'll have a budget of about 6-7 grand once I've stripped and sold everything.
Cheers
If you want serious power, or serious tuning potential, there's very little point in going for anything other than the turbo. It's easy and cheap to get serious power out of it. Ok, you might spend an extra couple of grand to buy the car in the first place, but you would have to spend a lot more than that to get a non turbo model up to the power of the standard turbo, and you'd sacrifice reliability.
You're obviously happy to play with your car, and you're used to running a turbo. I'd suggest you invest in a decent 944 Turbo with a decent service history (never ever buy any tubocharged car with a patchy service history) and then spend a bit of cash over time upping the power until you reach the point where you're happy.
James
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