RE: Porsche Cayenne
Discussion
Well I was VERY pessimistic with the Cayenne until I spent 3 days in both the S and Turbo.All I have to say is that there is nothing in the world that compares to this car on and off road. It is absolutely amazing. I drove the turbo in the pouring rain at speeds exceeding 130 mph and bogging through the Alabama out back in the mud. I have always supported Porsche and have not always agreed with the directions they have taken in the past. My doubts....and most of everyone elses will be put to rest soon.
Has anyone here got a Cayenne on order? If so what kind of delivery dates have you been given? Started to see some RHD ones at the factory in Bratislava (only the suspension, wheels, engine and gearbox are 'inserted' in Leipzig, the remaining 90% is made in Slovakia on the same assembly line as the VW Touareg). As someone who has spent days at a time looking at every possible colour combination of VW/Porsche the Dark Grey VW W10 Diesel looks best IMHO. Needs 20" Wheels on it though! The interior quality is very good and at least on par with my X5 4.4 Sport.
This SUV was all about increasing Porsche's financial stability. Their goal wasn't to start competing for soccer moms in the USA, although they want to pick up as many as possible. Porsche surveyed its owners and found out that parked next to their Porsche was an SUV and that if Porsche made an SUV, their current SUV would get the boot. I personally drive a Jeep Cherokee. I love it, except when on the road, I wish it was a lot more sportier and thus faster. To me the thought of a 4x4 made by Porsche makes me drool. And because Porsche knew all you dedicated Porsche-ites would hate its mere existance, they made sure it lived up to the Porsche name and had the 4x4 capibility of a Jeep (Yeah, I'm American. Land Rovers,to say, are expensive Jeeps, but Land Rover wrote the first page in the 4x4 history. In the USA you more than likely will never see a Land Rover on the trail, they just aren't rough and tough with a hose-it-out interior. Not ragging on them at all, I'd love to have one.) This car adds to Porsche's prestige, without a doubt.
Whatever the opinions about its looks, there's no doubt it can sprint with the best of them. I was on a stretch of the M25 early last year when one came in from the slip road at Orpington and scorched across the lanes and away. I was behaving myself, but was interested to see what this SUV was (I hadn't seen a Cayenne in the flesh at this point and wasn't expecting to do so).
In my 928, I naturally caught it quickly enough, perhaps also because it was baulked by traffic, but every time there was a gap it shot off like a scalded cat - performance more like a pretty good sports car rather than even a hot saloon. I was impressed. If I needed the space, I'd certainly give it serious consideration. I wouldn't much like its consumption figures, though - not at British prices for fuel.
In my 928, I naturally caught it quickly enough, perhaps also because it was baulked by traffic, but every time there was a gap it shot off like a scalded cat - performance more like a pretty good sports car rather than even a hot saloon. I was impressed. If I needed the space, I'd certainly give it serious consideration. I wouldn't much like its consumption figures, though - not at British prices for fuel.
The Cayenne was spawned from greed. Porsche was already the worlds most profitable automobile manufacturer.
Rather than build upon the formula that put them on top, what did they do? They lusted for what the Japanese were doing with the SUV market. So Porsche built a 5200 pound SUV that sucked funds away from their racing program and internal R&D, and jumped in the fray with the Japanese. Porsche dealerships, with their snooty aire about them, can't possibly provide the same level of "service" that the Japanese dealerships provide. Their products, by the way, don't have many callbacks either.
I think it is downright "STUPID" for the Porsche board of directors to do this, and I would FIRE the guy who lead the charge.
I'm a former corporate president and I know how a board can be lead astray, and how you can let greed and "yes men" influence the integrity of the organization. "You're fired". "It's over, no need to discuss it".
Did I mention the new "engineered in Germany by Porsche" has a Japanese transmission that the dealerships can't service? If you have a problem with one, you have to pull it and exchange it, and potentially inherit someone elses problems with their rebuilt exchange unit. You can't even buy parts for that transmission, as Porsche won't sell them. In my line of work, and in my culture, we call that a "screw job" because it prohibits an owner from commissioning his own work on his own vehicle, and it "requires" you to do business with Porsche after you buy the car. I say screw em, I'm happy with my older cars, and very happy going to my own private "non Porsche" mechanic.
When the Cayenne is gone, someone please wake me up, and I'll take a look at their showroom to see what they're building. I have absolutely NO INTEREST in buying an overpriced bloated high power lead sled that erases tire rubber faster than a NHRA drag racer. As for those Porsche published tests, ha ha, they're done with a "specially prepared" vehicle.
Personally, from what I see on the roads, SUV drivers are the "worst drivers" as a group, on earth. They're constantly hogging the center line, talking on the cell phone, wagging their blonde pony tails back and forth, swatting at the kids, going too slow, hogging the road in the left lane brain dead, and represent "an obstacle" that must be negotiated. Putting a Porsche badge on the front won't change that for 99% of them.
Like I say, someone wake me up when it's gone.
Dogsharks
Rather than build upon the formula that put them on top, what did they do? They lusted for what the Japanese were doing with the SUV market. So Porsche built a 5200 pound SUV that sucked funds away from their racing program and internal R&D, and jumped in the fray with the Japanese. Porsche dealerships, with their snooty aire about them, can't possibly provide the same level of "service" that the Japanese dealerships provide. Their products, by the way, don't have many callbacks either.
I think it is downright "STUPID" for the Porsche board of directors to do this, and I would FIRE the guy who lead the charge.
I'm a former corporate president and I know how a board can be lead astray, and how you can let greed and "yes men" influence the integrity of the organization. "You're fired". "It's over, no need to discuss it".
Did I mention the new "engineered in Germany by Porsche" has a Japanese transmission that the dealerships can't service? If you have a problem with one, you have to pull it and exchange it, and potentially inherit someone elses problems with their rebuilt exchange unit. You can't even buy parts for that transmission, as Porsche won't sell them. In my line of work, and in my culture, we call that a "screw job" because it prohibits an owner from commissioning his own work on his own vehicle, and it "requires" you to do business with Porsche after you buy the car. I say screw em, I'm happy with my older cars, and very happy going to my own private "non Porsche" mechanic.
When the Cayenne is gone, someone please wake me up, and I'll take a look at their showroom to see what they're building. I have absolutely NO INTEREST in buying an overpriced bloated high power lead sled that erases tire rubber faster than a NHRA drag racer. As for those Porsche published tests, ha ha, they're done with a "specially prepared" vehicle.
Personally, from what I see on the roads, SUV drivers are the "worst drivers" as a group, on earth. They're constantly hogging the center line, talking on the cell phone, wagging their blonde pony tails back and forth, swatting at the kids, going too slow, hogging the road in the left lane brain dead, and represent "an obstacle" that must be negotiated. Putting a Porsche badge on the front won't change that for 99% of them.
Like I say, someone wake me up when it's gone.
Dogsharks
dogsharks said:
The Cayenne was spawned from greed. Porsche was already the worlds most profitable automobile manufacturer.
Rather than build upon the formula that put them on top, what did they do? They lusted for what the Japanese were doing with the SUV market. So Porsche built a 5200 pound SUV that sucked funds away from their racing program and internal R&D, and jumped in the fray with the Japanese. Porsche dealerships, with their snooty aire about them, can't possibly provide the same level of "service" that the Japanese dealerships provide. Their products, by the way, don't have many callbacks either.
I think it is downright "STUPID" for the Porsche board of directors to do this, and I would FIRE the guy who lead the charge.
I'm a former corporate president and I know how a board can be lead astray, and how you can let greed and "yes men" influence the integrity of the organization. "You're fired". "It's over, no need to discuss it".
Did I mention the new "engineered in Germany by Porsche" has a Japanese transmission that the dealerships can't service? If you have a problem with one, you have to pull it and exchange it, and potentially inherit someone elses problems with their rebuilt exchange unit. You can't even buy parts for that transmission, as Porsche won't sell them. In my line of work, and in my culture, we call that a "screw job" because it prohibits an owner from commissioning his own work on his own vehicle, and it "requires" you to do business with Porsche after you buy the car. I say screw em, I'm happy with my older cars, and very happy going to my own private "non Porsche" mechanic.
When the Cayenne is gone, someone please wake me up, and I'll take a look at their showroom to see what they're building. I have absolutely NO INTEREST in buying an overpriced bloated high power lead sled that erases tire rubber faster than a NHRA drag racer. As for those Porsche published tests, ha ha, they're done with a "specially prepared" vehicle.
Personally, from what I see on the roads, SUV drivers are the "worst drivers" as a group, on earth. They're constantly hogging the center line, talking on the cell phone, wagging their blonde pony tails back and forth, swatting at the kids, going too slow, hogging the road in the left lane brain dead, and represent "an obstacle" that must be negotiated. Putting a Porsche badge on the front won't change that for 99% of them.
Like I say, someone wake me up when it's gone.
Dogsharks
I think you have a chip on his shoulder about Cayennes and Porscher in general. I think we should give Porsche and their team a big
in my eyes for making the best suv vehicle in the world. I don't personally think much about big ass American cars/suv, but each to their own, and who really cares about which manufacture is making the most/least profit?????, as long as the product is good! Porsche made the Cayenne because it will make them money....this is what a business is about..yes making money!!!!! No chip here, I'm just a potential buyer of the Cayenne, and have been looking at them.
So far I'm impressed with the product, not impressed with the price nor the dealer network of "support". Porsche dealerships are in the dark ages when it comes to the kind of support that is needed by the generic SUV marketplace they jumped into with both feet. Serving that market the the degree required to generate client satisfaction hurts those of us who wanted to see more attention given to their sporting cars, period, I rest my case. Porsche could barely do the job for the sporting automobile cleintle, let alone, add an entire new level of affluent polyester draped truck drivers, most of whom probably would be interested in the extra wide driver seat option.
"Wake me up when it's gone".
Want to see Porsche back in factory racing? Then lose the Cayenne, because it's sucking the company dry. All that because of greed. It wasn't good enough for Porsche to be the world's most profitible automobile manufacturer, turning out world class sporting cars, they had to build a 5200-pound SUV. Sheesh, wake me up NOW, I think I'm having a bad dream.
Dogsharks
So far I'm impressed with the product, not impressed with the price nor the dealer network of "support". Porsche dealerships are in the dark ages when it comes to the kind of support that is needed by the generic SUV marketplace they jumped into with both feet. Serving that market the the degree required to generate client satisfaction hurts those of us who wanted to see more attention given to their sporting cars, period, I rest my case. Porsche could barely do the job for the sporting automobile cleintle, let alone, add an entire new level of affluent polyester draped truck drivers, most of whom probably would be interested in the extra wide driver seat option.
"Wake me up when it's gone".
Want to see Porsche back in factory racing? Then lose the Cayenne, because it's sucking the company dry. All that because of greed. It wasn't good enough for Porsche to be the world's most profitible automobile manufacturer, turning out world class sporting cars, they had to build a 5200-pound SUV. Sheesh, wake me up NOW, I think I'm having a bad dream.
Dogsharks
dogsharks said:
"Wake me up when it's gone".
Want to see Porsche back in factory racing? Then lose the Cayenne, because it's sucking the company dry. All that because of greed. It wasn't good enough for Porsche to be the world's most profitible automobile manufacturer, turning out world class sporting cars, they had to build a 5200-pound SUV. Sheesh, wake me up NOW, I think I'm having a bad dream.
Dogsharks
May be if you and your mates buys a few Cayennes between you, Porsche might have a little more money to develop their racing programme. May be you should start a campaign programme to get more people in your neighbourhood to buy them too!. I would love to see Porsche be back in F1 again!....
........you might have heard it here first!
Thaaaanks for the vote of confidence Domster, but I'll pass. I wouldn't want to do anything to "encourage" them to build more of these things. Pretty soon, they wouldn't be interested in sporting cars, or us, for that matter, as they would be greedily chasing the profit margin.
Want to see Porsche racing again? I do, but sigh, all their money went into developing a SUV.
It's a nightmare, someone wake me up!!!!
Dogsharks
Want to see Porsche racing again? I do, but sigh, all their money went into developing a SUV.
It's a nightmare, someone wake me up!!!!
Dogsharks
ettore said:
No, not formula one! - they`re crap at it!
proper sports prototype is what we`re after - and the sooner the better.
How can a crap engine win back to back world championships?
Defender of the faith!
PS agree on sports protos but the ACO do keep pulling the rug out from them hense the carrera GT.
I`m still amazed how narrow minded some people are. Why is it such a bad thing that Porsche Produce a fine handling and performing 4 by 4 ?
Who is the dude who wrote the article that spurned this thread ? I haven`t read it all, life is too short, but "All Porsche needed to do was put big tyres on a C4 and they had a 4 person off roader" I`m damned sure you`ve not spent much time in the back of a 911, or are you a pixie ?
I think the anger and frustration might be more aimed at the realisation that at some stage in one`s life you need a vehicle that is bigger than a 2 plus 2 sports car to carry wife / sprog(s) / DIY supplies / trailer / caravan / boat / luggage / shopping......
Whilst I`m a bit pissed that there isn`t too much love flowing back form the company or their dealerships to those spearheading Porsche`s assult by purchasing and using said beast, (or is that just because I sell second hand Porsches so don`t count as a "proper" owner) - has anyone else clocked up 10k in their Cayenne yet !! you can`t blame the company for making money.
Re: the racing it gets even worse. Poor mortals such as myself who fly the Porsche flag on the motor racing circuit are only allowed to do so on the proviso that Porsche profit from our exploits. A pair of driveshafts for the GT3 that were £400 each last year are £1000 each this year !! Any other manufacturer would subsidise the racing in order to revel in the publicity. My advice if you fancy doing Le mans this year - have a chat to the other prancing horse, you`ll find them a tad more charitable.
Happy St Patrick`s day for tomorrow.
Henry
Who is the dude who wrote the article that spurned this thread ? I haven`t read it all, life is too short, but "All Porsche needed to do was put big tyres on a C4 and they had a 4 person off roader" I`m damned sure you`ve not spent much time in the back of a 911, or are you a pixie ?
I think the anger and frustration might be more aimed at the realisation that at some stage in one`s life you need a vehicle that is bigger than a 2 plus 2 sports car to carry wife / sprog(s) / DIY supplies / trailer / caravan / boat / luggage / shopping......
Whilst I`m a bit pissed that there isn`t too much love flowing back form the company or their dealerships to those spearheading Porsche`s assult by purchasing and using said beast, (or is that just because I sell second hand Porsches so don`t count as a "proper" owner) - has anyone else clocked up 10k in their Cayenne yet !! you can`t blame the company for making money.
Re: the racing it gets even worse. Poor mortals such as myself who fly the Porsche flag on the motor racing circuit are only allowed to do so on the proviso that Porsche profit from our exploits. A pair of driveshafts for the GT3 that were £400 each last year are £1000 each this year !! Any other manufacturer would subsidise the racing in order to revel in the publicity. My advice if you fancy doing Le mans this year - have a chat to the other prancing horse, you`ll find them a tad more charitable.
Happy St Patrick`s day for tomorrow.
Henry
Henry and Peashooter, what is this "a confessional" or a "mutual admiration society", ha ha. Don't break your arms patting yourselves on the back.
The Cayenne is a pig and you know it. Perhaps someone would be "narrow minded" if they objected to Porsche now going into the luxury lawn mower business, putting their badge on an upscale lawnmower ideally suited for the (portly) American market. Would they "only" be guilty of chasing the profit margin, or would they be guilty of ignoring what made them who they are today?
"YOU'RE FIRED, IT'S OVER, THERE'S NO POINT IN DISCUSSING IT FURTHER".................those are the words that would come out of my mouth, if I were the head of Porsche right now, speaking to the prettyboy Gucci-wearing accountant who came up with the (stupid) idea for Porsche, of all companies, to get into the grocery carrying business (with their Japanese transmission people can't buy parts for).
Dogsharks
The Cayenne is a pig and you know it. Perhaps someone would be "narrow minded" if they objected to Porsche now going into the luxury lawn mower business, putting their badge on an upscale lawnmower ideally suited for the (portly) American market. Would they "only" be guilty of chasing the profit margin, or would they be guilty of ignoring what made them who they are today?
"YOU'RE FIRED, IT'S OVER, THERE'S NO POINT IN DISCUSSING IT FURTHER".................those are the words that would come out of my mouth, if I were the head of Porsche right now, speaking to the prettyboy Gucci-wearing accountant who came up with the (stupid) idea for Porsche, of all companies, to get into the grocery carrying business (with their Japanese transmission people can't buy parts for).
Dogsharks
C'mon DS, who builds anything as good as they used to? 
Look at Mercedes-Benz, or Daimler-Chrysler or whatever you guys call them. A few years back they built autobahnstorming tanks that could take a direct hit from an 88; now they have fancy gizmos, clever cupholders and build that would make Revell and Airfix urinate themselves with mirth.
And I bet those McDonald's burgers we get these days aren't as tasty as the ones Ronald McDonald grilled in the '50s.
Porsche has to progress and it has to survive. The Cayenne may end up being an interesting footnote in Porsche's history, dare I say like the 928, which evolved until it could evolve no more and then was dropped - for economic reasons.
If however they dropped the 911 and kept the Cayenne going, then I would be miffed
Sadly, accountants first beat the engineers in porsche with the 993; which IIRC was the first time they skimped in a few areas to cut costs. If you wonder why they still use a 964 bottom end in the most powerful 996s, you have your answer when the over-engineering ended.
Also, the boundary between merchandising and brand dilution has become blurred. I loved it when they bought out Porsche sunglasses and watches; nice designs, very cool. But now you get toasters and kettles, and probably tampon holders and kiddy's lunchboxes too! The move away from the sportscar arena has already been taken (after all, sunglasses and watch are very Steve McQueen, so quite cool and sportscar relevant - but a toaster!!!).
All the best
Dom
Look at Mercedes-Benz, or Daimler-Chrysler or whatever you guys call them. A few years back they built autobahnstorming tanks that could take a direct hit from an 88; now they have fancy gizmos, clever cupholders and build that would make Revell and Airfix urinate themselves with mirth.
And I bet those McDonald's burgers we get these days aren't as tasty as the ones Ronald McDonald grilled in the '50s.
Porsche has to progress and it has to survive. The Cayenne may end up being an interesting footnote in Porsche's history, dare I say like the 928, which evolved until it could evolve no more and then was dropped - for economic reasons.
If however they dropped the 911 and kept the Cayenne going, then I would be miffed
Sadly, accountants first beat the engineers in porsche with the 993; which IIRC was the first time they skimped in a few areas to cut costs. If you wonder why they still use a 964 bottom end in the most powerful 996s, you have your answer when the over-engineering ended.
Also, the boundary between merchandising and brand dilution has become blurred. I loved it when they bought out Porsche sunglasses and watches; nice designs, very cool. But now you get toasters and kettles, and probably tampon holders and kiddy's lunchboxes too! The move away from the sportscar arena has already been taken (after all, sunglasses and watch are very Steve McQueen, so quite cool and sportscar relevant - but a toaster!!!).
All the best
Dom
I've been reading this thread with disbelief over the past few days. I really fail to understand the issue with Porsche building a 4x4. You don't have to like it or want one. Presumably as long as they continue to build the sports cars YOU want then you are happy. This being the case stop bitching and throwing your toys out of your pram.
Have you never heard of diversified business before?
Plus I've never heard of a Ferrari owner grumbling that the new Fiat Panda dilutes his brand.
Have you never heard of diversified business before?
Plus I've never heard of a Ferrari owner grumbling that the new Fiat Panda dilutes his brand.
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