996 GT3 investment according to Sunday Times

[kayc]

PPPPPP said:

Steve Rance said:

Or they have stuck it in a wall. A large number of 996 RS's have been stuck in the armco or the scenery. Not the most forgiving of cars. Catrs with a good provenance will be very hard to find in a few years

I have considered the 996RS, many times , and concluded it was too extreme for my needs. If I had the luxury of a 10 car garage, I would buy one for sure.

What intrigues me is that so many true Porsche experts & die hard aficianados keep talking about the increasing worth of these cars in the near term, and yet no-one has "hoovered" up all these good provenance cars. Surely the expected capital appreciation taking into account the small number of cars built, many stuck in the armco etc, will be better than the ridiculous interest rates being earnt on deposit accounts for the huge number of wealthy Porsche fans.

Edited by PPPPPP on Tuesday 5th January 15:31

Coz most of the old bks spoken on here is not from 'cash-rich' interest earning punters but from 'money borrowing badge -jockeys' so what you are actually looking at is the cost of finance to buy these cars not where you can lend cash.

[markcoznottz]

Slippydiff said:

PaulRothwell said:

Its about time that supposed specialists stopped harping on about the 996 GT2 being "just a mildly modified 996 Turbo" some differences are:

PaulRothwell said:

. adjustable suspension with a different wheelbase than the Turbo

I'm unaware of any difference in wheelbase, Would you care to elaborate ?

PaulRothwell said:

. modified airflow through radiators and oil coolers with exit at leading edge of front hood

I'd say that comes under the heading of mildly modified.

PaulRothwell said:

. different engine block from standard turbo

I'm unaware of any difference in the block specifcations over the standard X50 or indeed the "basic" 996 Turbo engine. Would you care to elaborate ?

PaulRothwell said:

. rear wheels wider than standard turbo involvong significant bodywork alterations to fit

The rear wheelarches were rolled. I'd say that comes under the heading of mildly modified.

PaulRothwell said:

. no four wheel drive

An upgraded GT3 type transmission based on the X50 'box as I understand it. Hardly a major upgrade requiring massive re-tooling or investment.

PaulRothwell said:

. no traction control

See above.

PaulRothwell said:

. approx 250kilos lighter than Turbo

The majority of which will have been as a result of the deletion of the above mentioned four wheel drive, lack of sunroof and rear seats.

PaulRothwell said:

. bigger brakes

Identical to the (standard fit) Turbo S items.

PaulRothwell said:

. revised clutch

X50 item.

PaulRothwell said:

. suspension approx 200mms lower

Now you're just being silly . . .

PaulRothwell said:

. various aero mods to bodywork and underneath car

The different rear spoiler and front bumper ? As previously suggested. Mildly modified.

PaulRothwell said:

. less sound deadening

Hardly a major modification.

PaulRothwell said:

. no rear seats

Hardly a major modification.

PaulRothwell said:

. no sunroof

Hardly a major modification.


That 250kg sounds a bit suspicious though doesnt it?. The front diff driveshafts and prop cant weigh that much. Ok ceramics are fitted, but slightly wider wheels and tires back and front must negate some of that. Lots of gt2s had the turbo front sports seats fitted, so that leaves the sunroof, sound deadening, and rear seats, the rear seats couldnt be any smaller if they tried!, and the cabin isnt massive so maybe not loads of sound deadening.

Edited by Slippydiff on Tuesday 5th January 13:26

[PPPPPP]

kayc said:

PPPPPP said:

Steve Rance said:

Or they have stuck it in a wall. A large number of 996 RS's have been stuck in the armco or the scenery. Not the most forgiving of cars. Cars with a good provenance will be very hard to find in a few years

I have considered the 996RS, many times , and concluded it was too extreme for my needs. If I had the luxury of a 10 car garage, I would buy one for sure.

What intrigues me is that so many true Porsche experts & die hard aficianados keep talking about the increasing worth of these cars in the near term, and yet no-one has "hoovered" up all these good provenance cars. Surely the expected capital appreciation taking into account the small number of cars built, many stuck in the armco etc, will be better than the ridiculous interest rates being earnt on deposit accounts for the huge number of wealthy Porsche fans.

Edited by PPPPPP on Tuesday 5th January 15:31

Coz most of the old bks spoken on here is not from 'cash-rich' interest earning punters but from 'money borrowing badge -jockeys' so what you are actually looking at is the cost of finance to buy these cars not where you can lend cash.

I hear what you say. Hexagon, a BMW dealer cornered the market on Z8's, E39 M5's and controlled prices quite well and sold the cars for top $. Surprised a Porsche dealer has not done the same for the 996RS, unless they don't believe in the hype or wider appeal for the car in the near term.

[kayc]

PPPPPP said:

kayc said:

PPPPPP said:

Steve Rance said:

Or they have stuck it in a wall. A large number of 996 RS's have been stuck in the armco or the scenery. Not the most forgiving of cars. Cars with a good provenance will be very hard to find in a few years

I have considered the 996RS, many times , and concluded it was too extreme for my needs. If I had the luxury of a 10 car garage, I would buy one for sure.

What intrigues me is that so many true Porsche experts & die hard aficianados keep talking about the increasing worth of these cars in the near term, and yet no-one has "hoovered" up all these good provenance cars. Surely the expected capital appreciation taking into account the small number of cars built, many stuck in the armco etc, will be better than the ridiculous interest rates being earnt on deposit accounts for the huge number of wealthy Porsche fans.

Edited by PPPPPP on Tuesday 5th January 15:31

Coz most of the old bks spoken on here is not from 'cash-rich' interest earning punters but from 'money borrowing badge -jockeys' so what you are actually looking at is the cost of finance to buy these cars not where you can lend cash.

I hear what you say. Hexagon, a BMW dealer cornered the market on Z8's, E39 M5's and controlled prices quite well and sold the cars for top $. Surprised a Porsche dealer has not done the same for the 996RS, unless they don't believe in the hype or wider appeal for the car in the near term.

Thats coz they havent got any cash either,they are just trading in never-never land like 90% of the population..Hexagon only cornered the market because they had 2 way flow from end-user punters..not because they made markets and used their own cash and took the principle risk..thats what creates volatility in markets..2 years ago no Porsche dealer wanted any inventory now they want everything..2 years time they will want nothing again...if they took a view with their so-called cash they could smooth market volatility and subsequently prices would be more realistic

Edited by kayc on Tuesday 5th January 16:16

[PPPPPP]

I suppose few foresaw the explosion in 964/993 RS prices, I sold my 993RS a couple of years before prices really took off.

Edited by PPPPPP on Tuesday 5th January 16:44

[GT Two]

Weight difference between a GT2 and GT3 is 110kg roughly

Slippy do you miss owning a GT2?

[David Hype]

AL001 said:

996 Mk1 = 103
996RS = 117
996 Mk2 = 221

But how many really good examples are left from these limited production numbers?

[sleep envy]

PPPPPP said:

I suppose few foresaw the explosion in 964/993 RS prices, I sold my 993RS a couple of years before prices really took off.

which makes me laugh when people pull out their crystal balls on PH and say this 911 will be worth more than that 911 in X+1n years time

unless you manipulate a market there's no way of predicting what a car will be worth

[fergus]

kayc said:

'money borrowing badge -jockeys'

brilliant

[David Hype]

[quote=sleep envy
unless you manipulate a market there's no way of predicting what a car will be worth
[/quote]

Very true

[Slippydiff]

GT Two said:

Weight difference between a GT2 and GT3 is 110kg roughly

Slippy do you miss owning a GT2?

Yes

Hangs head in shame

Edited by Slippydiff on Tuesday 5th January 18:05

[GT Two]

Slippydiff said:

GT Two said:

Weight difference between a GT2 and GT3 is 110kg roughly

Slippy do you miss owning a GT2?

Yes

Hangs head in shame

Edited by Slippydiff on Tuesday 5th January 18:05

You think you will own another?

[drmark]

David Hype said:

AL001 said:

996 Mk1 = 103
996RS = 117
996 Mk2 = 221

But how many really good examples are left from these limited production numbers?

I've got one. Makes me smile when I see those production figures - the Mk1 and RS guys always put rarity up as a major reason why their cars are more special than the Mk2. As bad as us lot going on about our better engines / boxes / brakes / interior and quality of finish.
There I go again.
All 996 GT3s are great - and the version you own is the best.
Pax?

[David Hype]

^^^ ^^^

[Slippydiff]

GT Two said:

Slippydiff said:

GT Two said:

Weight difference between a GT2 and GT3 is 110kg roughly

Slippy do you miss owning a GT2?

Yes

Hangs head in shame

Edited by Slippydiff on Tuesday 5th January 18:05

You think you will own another?

I'm trying very hard to resist, but the lure is strong . . . (fortunately I've a project I need to get sorted and sold before the finance would be available to buy another, so the urge might pass)

who an I kidding ?

[barchetta_boy]

DanH said:

PaulRothwell said:

Its about time that supposed specialists stopped harping on about the 996 GT2 being "just a mildly modified 996 Turbo" some differences are:

. adjustable suspension with a different wheelbase than the Turbo
. modified airflow through radiators and oil coolers with exit at leading edge of front hood.
. different engine block from standard turbo
. rear wheels wider than standard turbo involvong significant bodywork alterations to fit
. no four wheel drive
. no traction control
. approx 250kilos lighter than Turbo
. bigger brakes
. revised clutch
. suspension approx 200mms lower
. various aero mods to bodywork and underneath car
. less sound deadening
. no rear seats
. no sunroof

etc etc...


etc etc

Most of that stuff is pretty negligible so its a bit sad there aren't more significant differences. They didn't put nearly enough resources into developing the 6GT2, which they have rectified with the superlative 7GT2.

250kg my arse.

[Slippydiff]

barchetta_boy said:

DanH said:

PaulRothwell said:

Its about time that supposed specialists stopped harping on about the 996 GT2 being "just a mildly modified 996 Turbo" some differences are:

. adjustable suspension with a different wheelbase than the Turbo
. modified airflow through radiators and oil coolers with exit at leading edge of front hood.
. different engine block from standard turbo
. rear wheels wider than standard turbo involvong significant bodywork alterations to fit
. no four wheel drive
. no traction control
. approx 250kilos lighter than Turbo
. bigger brakes
. revised clutch
. suspension approx 200mms lower
. various aero mods to bodywork and underneath car
. less sound deadening
. no rear seats
. no sunroof

etc etc...


etc etc

Most of that stuff is pretty negligible so its a bit sad there aren't more significant differences. They didn't put nearly enough resources into developing the 6GT2, which they have rectified with the superlative 7GT2.

250kg my arse.

996 GT2 1440 kg
996 Turbo 1540 kg

[jackal]

Slippydiff said:

(fortunately I've a project I need to get sorted and sold before the finance would be available to buy another, so the urge might pass)

lol.. snap !

[cragswinter]

what always amazes me is why its always the porsche forums that get hung up on this, mention any kind of investment thread or inter-model conflict & you've suddenly got yourself a 4 page thread !
this investment talk is largely a load of bks though imho
ok how many people actually doubled their money on a 964 rs? when you take into account the servicing, insurance & cost of finance the gains to be made are probably quite a lot smaller than you think. try not to think of certain evo journo's buying cars for 25 grand that are now worth 60!
the reason for the jump in 64rs prices was the sudden explosion in popularity of track days,pure & simple.same as the 2.7rs, people suddenly cottoned on to the fact they could get into historic racing/rallying with them which suddenly made a rare expensive car into an extremely valuble one. don't expect a 96gt3 rs or otherwise to double in value for a very very long time not because they aren't great cars but because they aren't undervalued!
imho they are priced correctly & if correctly maintained should see their prices stabalise at their present level for the next 5 to 10 years. ie buy wisely now & keep it in good condition & you shouldn't loose too much.
just don't expect to pay off the mortgage on one

[Diesel130]

The point about investment for me is not necessarily to realise a significant amount of money, but rather to mimimise any loss, whilst at the same time enjoying a nice car.

I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.

So, in the same period, the gt3 would have been a £2K to £4K better bet.

If, from now on (barring any further global finanical catastrophes), the 996 GT3 will only drop (say) another £5K in 3 years, then that would be a better bet than purchasing (say) a 997 C2S for £35K and finding its only worth £25K in years.

Edited by Diesel130 on Tuesday 5th January 21:48