996 GT3 investment according to Sunday Times
Discussion
Me thinks old Lightweight/Blown Porkers make owner truly feel special - combination of looks, build, smell, rarity. Build and limited numbers being key.. I have owned blinking dozens of Porsches and it is always the older one's that play on your mind - Should never have sold! I have given the newer models a good going but for me they just ain't made like thier supposed to last..and for that reason they just ain't special, it's got to feel like it's going to last as long as me!!
A few times over the last 10 years I have really tried to fall in love and subseqently buy a 996 inc GT2 GT3 and RS and while they did offer a good drive they felt no better screwed together or finished than a run of the mill car. For me unforgiveable.
We all know other manufactures who have played the same game throwing cars together maximising return but at some point thing have to come full circle if the lust is to return.. I have just bought a perfect old Merc 190, don't need it, don't know what to do with it except to show anyone who is interested how cars where once made..Shutting the doors, fiddling with the overly engineered knobs and switches, admiring the 5 star hotel carpet and just sitting in it smelling the quality. It may be worth bugger all but it still feels special nearly 2 decades after it was built. For me the 996 in whatever guise never did and never will!
A few times over the last 10 years I have really tried to fall in love and subseqently buy a 996 inc GT2 GT3 and RS and while they did offer a good drive they felt no better screwed together or finished than a run of the mill car. For me unforgiveable.
We all know other manufactures who have played the same game throwing cars together maximising return but at some point thing have to come full circle if the lust is to return.. I have just bought a perfect old Merc 190, don't need it, don't know what to do with it except to show anyone who is interested how cars where once made..Shutting the doors, fiddling with the overly engineered knobs and switches, admiring the 5 star hotel carpet and just sitting in it smelling the quality. It may be worth bugger all but it still feels special nearly 2 decades after it was built. For me the 996 in whatever guise never did and never will!
Edited by jonny finance on Friday 8th January 18:04
Diesel130 said:
The point about investment for me is not necessarily to realise a significant amount of money, but rather to mimimise any loss, whilst at the same time enjoying a nice car.
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.
So, in the same period, the gt3 would have been a £2K to £4K better bet.
If, from now on (barring any further global finanical catastrophes), the 996 GT3 will only drop (say) another £5K in 3 years, then that would be a better bet than purchasing (say) a 997 C2S for £35K and finding its only worth £25K in years.
You are forgetting the extra maintenance costs - over 3 years that will easily burn that 2-4K you lost on the C2. GT3s eat brakes and suspension - if used properly - and the parts carry a significant premium. GT3s are expensive if you keep them in tip top condition.I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.
So, in the same period, the gt3 would have been a £2K to £4K better bet.
If, from now on (barring any further global finanical catastrophes), the 996 GT3 will only drop (say) another £5K in 3 years, then that would be a better bet than purchasing (say) a 997 C2S for £35K and finding its only worth £25K in years.
Edited by Diesel130 on Tuesday 5th January 21:48
Diesel130 said:
The point about investment for me is not necessarily to realise a significant amount of money, but rather to mimimise any loss, whilst at the same time enjoying a nice car.
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.
So, in the same period, the gt3 would have been a £2K to £4K better bet.
If, from now on (barring any further global finanical catastrophes), the 996 GT3 will only drop (say) another £5K in 3 years, then that would be a better bet than purchasing (say) a 997 C2S for £35K and finding its only worth £25K in years.
Right but if you'd invested the 22k difference and got a modest 1.5% p/a return on it, after 3 years you'd have 25.5k. So thats another 3.5k opportunity cost on top of the depreciation on the GT3.I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.
So, in the same period, the gt3 would have been a £2K to £4K better bet.
If, from now on (barring any further global finanical catastrophes), the 996 GT3 will only drop (say) another £5K in 3 years, then that would be a better bet than purchasing (say) a 997 C2S for £35K and finding its only worth £25K in years.
Edited by Diesel130 on Tuesday 5th January 21:48
jonny finance said:
A few times over the last 10 years I have really tried to fall in love and subseqently buy a 996 inc GT2 GT3 and RS and while they did offer a good drive they felt no better screwed together or finished than a run of the mill car. For me unforgiveable.
I beg to differ, but for road use the 996 GT3 and its ilk is massively over-engineered for road use. I don't think the sound the door makes when shutting is indicative of its build quality despite what the magazines say.The only thing that betters it for "velly tough old boot"ness is an early 80s VW Jetta diesel.
drmark said:
Diesel130 said:
The point about investment for me is not necessarily to realise a significant amount of money, but rather to mimimise any loss, whilst at the same time enjoying a nice car.
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.
So, in the same period, the gt3 would have been a £2K to £4K better bet.
If, from now on (barring any further global finanical catastrophes), the 996 GT3 will only drop (say) another £5K in 3 years, then that would be a better bet than purchasing (say) a 997 C2S for £35K and finding its only worth £25K in years.
You are forgetting the extra maintenance costs - over 3 years that will easily burn that 2-4K you lost on the C2. GT3s eat brakes and suspension - if used properly - and the parts carry a significant premium. GT3s are expensive if you keep them in tip top condition.I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.
So, in the same period, the gt3 would have been a £2K to £4K better bet.
If, from now on (barring any further global finanical catastrophes), the 996 GT3 will only drop (say) another £5K in 3 years, then that would be a better bet than purchasing (say) a 997 C2S for £35K and finding its only worth £25K in years.
Edited by Diesel130 on Tuesday 5th January 21:48
A GT3/RS/GT2 used for high days and holidays on the road won't eat brakes tyres etc. And as Diesel said, they will retain their value better than the equivalent 996 Turbo, 997 C2S, 996 C4S etc
mayes911 said:
in 10 years time there could be no more petrol /£5 a litre or the gov. will have some supertax for anything putting out more than c02 99gkm therefor our cars will become absolutley worthless.imho no car is going to be an investment anymore take a look at ferraris use to have rock solid residuals f430 for 65k and dropping.
At least one of the advantage of the GT3 is that it would still be an asset even if it were effectively banned from the road, the motor sport history of the model means it s likely to end up being valued as a historic GT racer.I don't know if it will be an investment but I suspect even the worst case scenario is that buying a 996 GT3 will not cost that much in depreciation. I've started saving....
Diesel130 said:
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.[/footnote]
Same here. Bought mine in 2006 for just shy of £25k. Were Mk2's really going for sub £50k in 2006???As for comments regarding old vs new build..blah blah.. I don't buy any of it. A 40 yearold GT3 will be in a lot better shape compared with similary aged 911s today. They're over engineered and far less likely to rot!
Sold my 1 owner GT3 recently for £38 k and believ they are a steal as just in France and see they are about 60k Euro for same car ....... maybe we will be convering to left hand drive , strange but it was the other way around a few years ago . In fact a friend bought a left hand car at the same time ( for 10 less) and now has sold it for 15 k more as it si a left hooker????
996Weissach said:
Diesel130 said:
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.[/footnote]
Same here. Bought mine in 2006 for just shy of £25k. Were Mk2's really going for sub £50k in 2006???As for comments regarding old vs new build..blah blah.. I don't buy any of it. A 40 yearold GT3 will be in a lot better shape compared with similary aged 911s today. They're over engineered and far less likely to rot!
They might have race derived engine/running gear etc which obviously gives a first class drive but what has always concerned me with the 996 is the body these parts are plonked into.. You have a really good poke about and you will understand. Parts and bits you dont necessarily see. Where once 'over engineered' was common place like under the carpets (now naff too!) around the luggage compartment and in particular the plastics now used - My eggs are supplied in superior quality plastic.
I remember going to see a few nearly new 996 turbo's and GT3's and thinking 'hang on' this car is only 9 months to 18 months old with 2/3 thousand on the clock and there is rust on the bonnet catch and various other places - And these where garage queens!!
jonny finance said:
996Weissach said:
Diesel130 said:
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.[/footnote]
Same here. Bought mine in 2006 for just shy of £25k. Were Mk2's really going for sub £50k in 2006???As for comments regarding old vs new build..blah blah.. I don't buy any of it. A 40 yearold GT3 will be in a lot better shape compared with similary aged 911s today. They're over engineered and far less likely to rot!
They might have race derived engine/running gear etc which obviously gives a first class drive but what has always concerned me with the 996 is the body these parts are plonked into.. You have a really good poke about and you will understand. Parts and bits you dont necessarily see. Where once 'over engineered' was common place like under the carpets (now naff too!) around the luggage compartment and in particular the plastics now used - My eggs are supplied in superior quality plastic.
I remember going to see a few nearly new 996 turbo's and GT3's and thinking 'hang on' this car is only 9 months to 18 months old with 2/3 thousand on the clock and there is rust on the bonnet catch and various other places - And these where garage queens!!
It is fair to say that cars are not as 'solid' now as they were in 80's and early 90's - Mercs are another example of that, however, I think you are over egging the issue with your comments ref. egg trays!
jonny finance said:
996Weissach said:
Diesel130 said:
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.[/footnote]
Same here. Bought mine in 2006 for just shy of £25k. Were Mk2's really going for sub £50k in 2006???As for comments regarding old vs new build..blah blah.. I don't buy any of it. A 40 yearold GT3 will be in a lot better shape compared with similary aged 911s today. They're over engineered and far less likely to rot!
They might have race derived engine/running gear etc which obviously gives a first class drive but what has always concerned me with the 996 is the body these parts are plonked into.. You have a really good poke about and you will understand. Parts and bits you dont necessarily see. Where once 'over engineered' was common place like under the carpets (now naff too!) around the luggage compartment and in particular the plastics now used - My eggs are supplied in superior quality plastic.
I remember going to see a few nearly new 996 turbo's and GT3's and thinking 'hang on' this car is only 9 months to 18 months old with 2/3 thousand on the clock and there is rust on the bonnet catch and various other places - And these where garage queens!!
hunter 66 said:
Sold my 1 owner GT3 recently for £38 k and believ they are a steal as just in France and see they are about 60k Euro for same car ....... maybe we will be convering to left hand drive , strange but it was the other way around a few years ago . In fact a friend bought a left hand car at the same time ( for 10 less) and now has sold it for 15 k more as it si a left hooker????
Yes indeed. Many thanks I'm very pleased with it!No doubt your sometime co driver is sunning himself in the Caribbean on strength of the profit he made from the deal and the sale of my 964RS!
jonny finance said:
996Weissach said:
Diesel130 said:
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.[/footnote]
Same here. Bought mine in 2006 for just shy of £25k. Were Mk2's really going for sub £50k in 2006???As for comments regarding old vs new build..blah blah.. I don't buy any of it. A 40 yearold GT3 will be in a lot better shape compared with similary aged 911s today. They're over engineered and far less likely to rot!
They might have race derived engine/running gear etc which obviously gives a first class drive but what has always concerned me with the 996 is the body these parts are plonked into.. You have a really good poke about and you will understand. Parts and bits you dont necessarily see. Where once 'over engineered' was common place like under the carpets (now naff too!) around the luggage compartment and in particular the plastics now used - My eggs are supplied in superior quality plastic.
I remember going to see a few nearly new 996 turbo's and GT3's and thinking 'hang on' this car is only 9 months to 18 months old with 2/3 thousand on the clock and there is rust on the bonnet catch and various other places - And these where garage queens!!
Even though producing zero frontal lift, while the rear, 6kg of downforce at 200kph, and 13.5kg at 300kph, overall drag coefficient is a slippery 0.30. I'd say Porsche has spent significant time engineering the 996 and GT3's aerodynamics. A far cry from iron inserts bolted behind the bumper on earlier cars!
The running gear is racing strength, with subframes and suspension arms created from aluminium alloy, and therefore have inherent corrosion resistance since the alloy oxidises on the surface and creates its own barrier to the elements.
Engine wise, it's the finest engine ever to grace a 911. Along with the gearbox, is racing strength. The hybrid water cooling providing a stable running temperature which aids in its longevity, i.e. no sloppy valve guides after 60k miles as per some early motors.
To my thinking over engineering is not about the superficial cappings/linings, but structural and functional areas. The GT3 is in no doubt over engineered in the structural and functional.
jonny finance said:
996Weissach said:
Diesel130 said:
I've had my 996 C2 for virtually 3 years, and in that time, it has dropped from the £26K purchase price to around (I guess) about £14K. At the time, I could have purchased a 996 GT3 MKII for around 48K, which would now be worth about £38K -£40K.[/footnote]
Same here. Bought mine in 2006 for just shy of £25k. Were Mk2's really going for sub £50k in 2006???As for comments regarding old vs new build..blah blah.. I don't buy any of it. A 40 yearold GT3 will be in a lot better shape compared with similary aged 911s today. They're over engineered and far less likely to rot!
They might have race derived engine/running gear etc which obviously gives a first class drive but what has always concerned me with the 996 is the body these parts are plonked into.. You have a really good poke about and you will understand. Parts and bits you dont necessarily see. Where once 'over engineered' was common place like under the carpets (now naff too!) around the luggage compartment and in particular the plastics now used - My eggs are supplied in superior quality plastic.
I remember going to see a few nearly new 996 turbo's and GT3's and thinking 'hang on' this car is only 9 months to 18 months old with 2/3 thousand on the clock and there is rust on the bonnet catch and various other places - And these where garage queens!!
drmark said:
Stick to finance Jonny - ye know not your ar*e from your elbow.
Lol.. just as well his 'over engineered' Porsche uses bakelite and shag pile carpet - they're the only things holding the rotten shell together!My '98 Carrera doesn't have a bubble of rust anywhere and it's spent most of its 12 years living outside. 9-18 month old GT2s/GT3s with rust. Utter tosh.
TGJR said:
It is fair to say that cars are not as 'solid' now as they were in 80's and early 90's - Mercs are another example of that, however, I think you are over egging the issue with your comments ref. egg trays!
Trying to be a bit like Jeremy Clarkson & his comment on boot panel in the M3 CSL "Subsequently I tried the CSL version on the Isle of Man. This had a carbon fibre roof, a sequential gearbox, a boot floor made from cardboard and a big nostril in the front". Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff