993 buying advice
Discussion
OK PH'ers time to put your knowledge of Pork to the test.
Elise is in the process of going and one of the possible list of replacements is a 993 C2.
I'll probably be putting about 10,000 miles a year on it and budget is about £26k. Given the right car I'll be looking to keep it for at least 2 years.
I've read Dr Alex's excellent 964 buying guide but I can't find anything 993 related. Does anyone know of such a guide?
Given my budget I'm suspecting any 993 will be fairly leggy (+60k). Are there any jobs which have to be done at a certain time or is the overall package good for starship miles as long as it gets TLC and regular oil changes?
At the moment I'm torn betwene three options for daily use;
1. 993 - The howl of the flat 6 and granite build quality. Blame my father for starting my worship at the altar of Zuffhausen.
2. Esprit GT3 - more practical than the Elise and still sublime handling. Heart is pulling me in this direction but head is warning me of potentially large bills. Would be available at much lower mileage than the 993.
3. New 350Z - cheapest to run but potentially less soul than either of the other options. Test drive arranged tomorrow to see.
Cheers
Chris
Elise is in the process of going and one of the possible list of replacements is a 993 C2.
I'll probably be putting about 10,000 miles a year on it and budget is about £26k. Given the right car I'll be looking to keep it for at least 2 years.
I've read Dr Alex's excellent 964 buying guide but I can't find anything 993 related. Does anyone know of such a guide?
Given my budget I'm suspecting any 993 will be fairly leggy (+60k). Are there any jobs which have to be done at a certain time or is the overall package good for starship miles as long as it gets TLC and regular oil changes?
At the moment I'm torn betwene three options for daily use;
1. 993 - The howl of the flat 6 and granite build quality. Blame my father for starting my worship at the altar of Zuffhausen.
2. Esprit GT3 - more practical than the Elise and still sublime handling. Heart is pulling me in this direction but head is warning me of potentially large bills. Would be available at much lower mileage than the 993.
3. New 350Z - cheapest to run but potentially less soul than either of the other options. Test drive arranged tomorrow to see.
Cheers
Chris
993's are temding to fall into 2 camps:
1) The really well cared for, few owner, derirable spec cars that seem to be still in the £30k + band
2) The multiple owner, questionable history, questionable spec, been spanked-like-a-ginger-step-child cars that are usually sub £25k
Mileage is not important on these cars IMO, but condition and evidence of lifetime TLC is.
For the budget, I would look at the Datsun
1) The really well cared for, few owner, derirable spec cars that seem to be still in the £30k + band
2) The multiple owner, questionable history, questionable spec, been spanked-like-a-ginger-step-child cars that are usually sub £25k
Mileage is not important on these cars IMO, but condition and evidence of lifetime TLC is.
For the budget, I would look at the Datsun
There is also a silver one at www.portiacraft.com for £26,995 with 75k on the clock.
Thanks for the comments so far.
Yes, the 350Z is nice but is becoming more and more common. Chances are it'll end up like the TT. It will likely be the cheapest to run every day but depreciation will then take a big chunk in 2- 3 years. As has been said it's no 911. Good but not that good. I've already driven another would be contender in the "could afford it new" category, the S2000, and was left feeling unimpressed. There's lots of satisfied owners and even our own Mr Zee has ordered one, but it just didn' do it for me.
I've had a passion for Porsche every since my father had his first 944 and that's a goodly time ago as he's now 72.
The 911 has held a special place in my heart ever since he had his 964. Only took his 944 turbo in to be serviced and ended up buying a cancelled order instead at a goodly discount. I spent quite a time ferrying him round in this when I was 19/20 and I've never forgotten how much fun it was or forgotten the howl of the flat 6 on the country lanes. Great father son bonding stuff.
I guess where I'm coming from is does buying a 911 with big miles on make any sense or am I heading for a whole world of trouble. I'm budgeting about £2k a year in running costs plus insurance. Despite insyurance being a necessary evil and if I found the right car I'd have it whatever the insurance I have found the initial quotes pretty reasonable at only £30 a year more than the Elise !
I've read alot on PH about 911Virgin and will make my own mind up about him.
Chris
Yes, the 350Z is nice but is becoming more and more common. Chances are it'll end up like the TT. It will likely be the cheapest to run every day but depreciation will then take a big chunk in 2- 3 years. As has been said it's no 911. Good but not that good. I've already driven another would be contender in the "could afford it new" category, the S2000, and was left feeling unimpressed. There's lots of satisfied owners and even our own Mr Zee has ordered one, but it just didn' do it for me.
I've had a passion for Porsche every since my father had his first 944 and that's a goodly time ago as he's now 72.
The 911 has held a special place in my heart ever since he had his 964. Only took his 944 turbo in to be serviced and ended up buying a cancelled order instead at a goodly discount. I spent quite a time ferrying him round in this when I was 19/20 and I've never forgotten how much fun it was or forgotten the howl of the flat 6 on the country lanes. Great father son bonding stuff.
I guess where I'm coming from is does buying a 911 with big miles on make any sense or am I heading for a whole world of trouble. I'm budgeting about £2k a year in running costs plus insurance. Despite insyurance being a necessary evil and if I found the right car I'd have it whatever the insurance I have found the initial quotes pretty reasonable at only £30 a year more than the Elise !
I've read alot on PH about 911Virgin and will make my own mind up about him.
Chris
Paul, have you been taken by a 'grey' or something?
You are in dodgy terratory with 993 models at £26K. Be very careful, you will see quite a few cars around this price and some might be RHD models. However, you will see a lot of LHD cars on offer around this budget, but they would need to be tip-top quality and a good spec. at this sort of money.
Don`t get drawn into an impulse buy. Do your research and get a quality inspection.
Have you thought about a really good 964 and have quite a bit of cash left over to play with it?
Don`t get drawn into an impulse buy. Do your research and get a quality inspection.
Have you thought about a really good 964 and have quite a bit of cash left over to play with it?
CVP said:
Thanks for the comments so far.
Yes, the 350Z is nice but is becoming more and more common. Chances are it'll end up like the TT. It will likely be the cheapest to run every day but depreciation will then take a big chunk in 2- 3 years. As has been said it's no 911. Good but not that good. I've already driven another would be contender in the "could afford it new" category, the S2000, and was left feeling unimpressed. There's lots of satisfied owners and even our own Mr Zee has ordered one, but it just didn' do it for me.
I've had a passion for Porsche every since my father had his first 944 and that's a goodly time ago as he's now 72.
The 911 has held a special place in my heart ever since he had his 964. Only took his 944 turbo in to be serviced and ended up buying a cancelled order instead at a goodly discount. I spent quite a time ferrying him round in this when I was 19/20 and I've never forgotten how much fun it was or forgotten the howl of the flat 6 on the country lanes. Great father son bonding stuff.
I guess where I'm coming from is does buying a 911 with big miles on make any sense or am I heading for a whole world of trouble. I'm budgeting about £2k a year in running costs plus insurance. Despite insyurance being a necessary evil and if I found the right car I'd have it whatever the insurance I have found the initial quotes pretty reasonable at only £30 a year more than the Elise !
I've read alot on PH about 911Virgin and will make my own mind up about him.
Chris
Hi
Mileage doesn't really matter with 993s as long as it has been well cared for and meticulously maintained. If you really are interested (but I really think a £26k budget is ambitious for a good 993) try Paul Stephens - www.paul-stephens.com - I've had 2 911s from him and his stock really is good quality (When Autofarm did an inspection of my 1st one, they said, unprompted, that they only ever see good cars from him).
Also, Paul used to be a 911 mechanic, has raced them and used to sell them new, so he really does know his stuff. He's also a great believer in getting you to believe in the car your buying - I well remember my 1st test drive with him; no 10 minutes down the road & "I think thats fast enough Sir" at 75 - 40 minutes into the drive it was "Go on, give it some - you've got to see if you like it"
You also get the benefits of dealing with the guy who owns the business and who underwrites (and unswervingly honours) his own warranties
IMO you CAN find a good clean 'pre-varioram' 993 for that budget. It may take some time but it will be woth the wait. As Craig said I took delivery last Friday and I am delighted. Full history, 65K miles, perfect paintwork and near perfect interior. I scuffed alloy, new clutch at 55K, all receipts etc
Good luck
Good luck
I think if you are careful you can get a 993 in perfect condition for that price. I sold my 94 L car for not a huge amount more. The car was truly mint (and I mean that). It had a new suspension (M030 shocks, Bilstein springs, bushes, sway bars etc etc from Gert at Carnewal) at a cost of £2k fitted a yaer previous, new discs / pads a couple of months before selling, and I put right any small fault with it as soon as it happened during my ownership of the car (usual stuff like aircon, brake slave cylinder, binding brakes, minor oil leak due to gaskets). Paintwork was immaculate, had Turbo 4 alloys, interior was unmarked (apart from the usual cracks in the leather). Virtually new set of Bridgestone SO2's on it etc etc etc.
From my experience of selling my car, there is a lot of competition out there in this price range, and a lot of them are good cars, just make sure you look at a good few to get an idea of whats good and whats not.
If you pay £30k plus for a 60k 993 of '95ish vintage you are seriously mad, thats just daydream money. And if you pay that for a LHD.... hmmmmmm.
From my experience of selling my car, there is a lot of competition out there in this price range, and a lot of them are good cars, just make sure you look at a good few to get an idea of whats good and whats not.
If you pay £30k plus for a 60k 993 of '95ish vintage you are seriously mad, thats just daydream money. And if you pay that for a LHD.... hmmmmmm.
For the original topic, I previously prepared a checklist of 993 purchase advice - despite being posted several times in different places, it hasn't been torn to shreds .... (now there's a challenge) so here it is for what its worth....
Cheers, Maurice
Purchasing
Short answer is – check everything as per other cars, plus ........
#1 As many do low mileage, annual services should be done and documented. Check all paperwork thoroughly, map out the history. Get an independent inspection.
#2 Low miles commands a premium, but can sometimes cause trouble, see 1 (+ aircon etc)
#3 You're not 100% safe with an OPC, but fully warranted and certified is a pretty good start, adds 2k-10k to the price. Not much trouble would get repair bills of that order! Hard to find one now …
#4 Carrera 2, 4, S, 4S and TTurbo, RS, TTS cost more in ascending order, but they are all great cars.
#5 Drive both 2 & 4 to decide that one. 4wd will understeer rather more.
#6 VRam gives a wider torque spread, little more bhp. Downside of later N/A cars is the gearbox change to the US ratios (G50/20), but only noticeable on the track.
#7 Get the best car you can afford, with the options you want. Adding them later costs big time.
#8 Cars up to early 96 should have had their engine wiring loom checked – if on the OPC VIN list it should be replaced.
#9 These cars also need the steering rack brace fitted if they are to run 18” wheels.
#10 Factory shocks (esp Monroe) last 20-40K miles only.
#11 M030 (sports suspension) gives excellent ride/handling – M033 (lowered suspension – M030/TT height) fitted as standard to S models – shocks no better. RS gets Bilsteins, ‘nuf said, along with stiffer suspension bushes, springs, roll bars, engine mounts etc etc.
#12 Big Red brakes (4S, TT, RS) are great, but the standard Brembos are outstanding anyway, especially with extra cooling.
#13 Oil used should reflect the value of the car – full synthetic recommended especially if standard service intervals are followed.
#14 Alignment critical to handling – 993 multilink rear suspension requires extra setting of kinematic toe – special tools required – OPC or specialist only.
#15 LHD gets better driving position along with usual ‘difficulties’.
Other tips from my purchase time (can't guarantee all of them!) - options sticker should be inside front lid - if not, could be repaint job.
Check numbers match.
Run your finger down the rain gutter, it should tighten towards rear - if not could be major body stuff.
The seam beads in front of either side of the windscreen should not be brittle - indicates oven treatment without full strip down.
HTH, Cheers, Maurice
Cheers, Maurice
Purchasing
Short answer is – check everything as per other cars, plus ........
#1 As many do low mileage, annual services should be done and documented. Check all paperwork thoroughly, map out the history. Get an independent inspection.
#2 Low miles commands a premium, but can sometimes cause trouble, see 1 (+ aircon etc)
#3 You're not 100% safe with an OPC, but fully warranted and certified is a pretty good start, adds 2k-10k to the price. Not much trouble would get repair bills of that order! Hard to find one now …
#4 Carrera 2, 4, S, 4S and TTurbo, RS, TTS cost more in ascending order, but they are all great cars.
#5 Drive both 2 & 4 to decide that one. 4wd will understeer rather more.
#6 VRam gives a wider torque spread, little more bhp. Downside of later N/A cars is the gearbox change to the US ratios (G50/20), but only noticeable on the track.
#7 Get the best car you can afford, with the options you want. Adding them later costs big time.
#8 Cars up to early 96 should have had their engine wiring loom checked – if on the OPC VIN list it should be replaced.
#9 These cars also need the steering rack brace fitted if they are to run 18” wheels.
#10 Factory shocks (esp Monroe) last 20-40K miles only.
#11 M030 (sports suspension) gives excellent ride/handling – M033 (lowered suspension – M030/TT height) fitted as standard to S models – shocks no better. RS gets Bilsteins, ‘nuf said, along with stiffer suspension bushes, springs, roll bars, engine mounts etc etc.
#12 Big Red brakes (4S, TT, RS) are great, but the standard Brembos are outstanding anyway, especially with extra cooling.
#13 Oil used should reflect the value of the car – full synthetic recommended especially if standard service intervals are followed.
#14 Alignment critical to handling – 993 multilink rear suspension requires extra setting of kinematic toe – special tools required – OPC or specialist only.
#15 LHD gets better driving position along with usual ‘difficulties’.
Other tips from my purchase time (can't guarantee all of them!) - options sticker should be inside front lid - if not, could be repaint job.
Check numbers match.
Run your finger down the rain gutter, it should tighten towards rear - if not could be major body stuff.
The seam beads in front of either side of the windscreen should not be brittle - indicates oven treatment without full strip down.
HTH, Cheers, Maurice
MauriceC2S said:
For the original topic, I previously prepared a checklist of 993 purchase advice - despite being posted several times in different places, it hasn't been torn to shreds .... (now there's a challenge) so here it is for what its worth....
Cheers, Maurice
Purchasing
Short answer is – check everything as per other cars, plus ........
#1 As many do low mileage, annual services should be done and documented. Check all paperwork thoroughly, map out the history. Get an independent inspection.
#2 Low miles commands a premium, but can sometimes cause trouble, see 1 (+ aircon etc)
#3 You're not 100% safe with an OPC, but fully warranted and certified is a pretty good start, adds 2k-10k to the price. Not much trouble would get repair bills of that order! Hard to find one now …
#4 Carrera 2, 4, S, 4S and TTurbo, RS, TTS cost more in ascending order, but they are all great cars.
#5 Drive both 2 & 4 to decide that one. 4wd will understeer rather more.
#6 VRam gives a wider torque spread, little more bhp. Downside of later N/A cars is the gearbox change to the US ratios (G50/20), but only noticeable on the track.
#7 Get the best car you can afford, with the options you want. Adding them later costs big time.
#8 Cars up to early 96 should have had their engine wiring loom checked – if on the OPC VIN list it should be replaced.
#9 These cars also need the steering rack brace fitted if they are to run 18” wheels.
#10 Factory shocks (esp Monroe) last 20-40K miles only.
#11 M030 (sports suspension) gives excellent ride/handling – M033 (lowered suspension – M030/TT height) fitted as standard to S models – shocks no better. RS gets Bilsteins, ‘nuf said, along with stiffer suspension bushes, springs, roll bars, engine mounts etc etc.
#12 Big Red brakes (4S, TT, RS) are great, but the standard Brembos are outstanding anyway, especially with extra cooling.
#13 Oil used should reflect the value of the car – full synthetic recommended especially if standard service intervals are followed.
#14 Alignment critical to handling – 993 multilink rear suspension requires extra setting of kinematic toe – special tools required – OPC or specialist only.
#15 LHD gets better driving position along with usual ‘difficulties’.
Other tips from my purchase time (can't guarantee all of them!) - options sticker should be inside front lid - if not, could be repaint job.
Check numbers match.
Run your finger down the rain gutter, it should tighten towards rear - if not could be major body stuff.
The seam beads in front of either side of the windscreen should not be brittle - indicates oven treatment without full strip down.
HTH, Cheers, Maurice
Agree with all of this except, perhaps, #4. Especially agree with #14 and evidence of an anal approach to this is a sure-fired sign of a seriously cossetted 993 - Keith and Anna Guerrier (if you don't know them you should - Anna is F1 PR guru & former head of PR at McLaren, Keith is old mate of Stirling Moss & general bon oeuf toute circulaire) taught me this trick and its absolutely and infallibly true
Build on an Esprit is very suspect and the V8 is known as being troublesome. It is pain and frustration, not just running costs. They may have ironed out many problems by now, but if you examine a V8 esprit and a 993 together, you will see the difference in quality and engineering quite clearly. However, the Esprit does handle better. 
clubsport said:
Not at all Squire...if someone is considering a 993 or a 350Z...if such a decision even needs to be considered then they quite honestly deserve the 350Z
Paul
Thanks for your comments although they were not very useful.
I asked what I believed was a sensible question. I think it would have been foolish in the extreme to go out and buy a 993 and then run into potentially huge maintenance problems. There's plenty of folk around here who have detailed knowledge of the 993 and are happy to pass that along. Thanks to them it appears through careful research a 993 may be possible to rbuy and maintain in good health.
My cars have to have a finite budget for buying and running and I was trying to work out if a 993 could be done on that total budget. What would break your heart more buying one of your dream cars only to have to sell it as you could not afford to run it, or simply waiting another couple of years in the first place. For me the former would be more painful.
The other options I am considering are just that, options. Sometimes the head has to rule the heart and that may have meant waiting another couple of years for what I really want, so be it.
Chris
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff