Discussion
Ive been a big knocker of the 996 due to the looks, quality and sound. I remember quite vividly, the first pictures and being astounded at the boring 'pebble' shape and horrific headlights. What had they done...
BUT, I saw an early 3.4 with those 17" boxster style wheels on recently and it looked fine, even in silver! I think bigger wheels ruin them, especially turbo twists which make them look big but short. I can see good early cars being held in high regard due to them being the original 'phase 2' 911. How many good ones will still be around in 10 years?
I would love a 996GT3 mk2 (At planning stage) but certain angles still make me wince (Side profile and rear wings).
Where does one go from a 993 Carrera? A 997GT3 would be perfect but I am afraid its too much of a stretch for me. Not impossible, but..
Keep thinking about a silver 3.2 for some reason....
MTR
BUT, I saw an early 3.4 with those 17" boxster style wheels on recently and it looked fine, even in silver! I think bigger wheels ruin them, especially turbo twists which make them look big but short. I can see good early cars being held in high regard due to them being the original 'phase 2' 911. How many good ones will still be around in 10 years?
I would love a 996GT3 mk2 (At planning stage) but certain angles still make me wince (Side profile and rear wings).
Where does one go from a 993 Carrera? A 997GT3 would be perfect but I am afraid its too much of a stretch for me. Not impossible, but..
Keep thinking about a silver 3.2 for some reason....
MTR
Edited by mollytherocker on Tuesday 28th September 22:50
mollytherocker said:
Where does one go from a 993 Carrera? A 997GT3 would be perfect but I am afraid its too much of a stretch for me. Not impossible, but..
Keep thinking about a silver 3.2 for some reason....
MTR
There's too many for me sadly MTR.. i've been really getting into the old T's and S's as well of late which complicates things even further (I blame the Fairmile meets for that !). Been getting into 964's as well bigtime.Keep thinking about a silver 3.2 for some reason....
MTR
I think my list in order of preference would be something like:
996 GT3RS
911S or 911T
3.2 SS or Turbo
964 c2
964 Turbo
jackal said:
mollytherocker said:
Where does one go from a 993 Carrera? A 997GT3 would be perfect but I am afraid its too much of a stretch for me. Not impossible, but..
Keep thinking about a silver 3.2 for some reason....
MTR
There's too many for me sadly MTR.. i've been really getting into the old T's and S's as well of late which complicates things even further (I blame the Fairmile meets for that !). Been getting into 964's as well bigtime.Keep thinking about a silver 3.2 for some reason....
MTR
I think my list in order of preference would be something like:
996 GT3RS
911S or 911T
3.2 SS or Turbo
964 c2
964 Turbo
Hows the 993 'RS' coming on? Not seen any pics lately?
MTR
PS: Heres my list;
993GT2
Er
Er
Er
Mc F1
In response to the OP.
I drove a 996 vs 993 back to back at Hartech a few weeks ago (who where incredibly helpful by the way and will surely get my servicing business in the future).
A 2003 996 C2 manual in black vs a 1996 993 C2 manual in silver.
I had a good 20mins alone with the cars in the showroom initially and couldn't take my eyes off the 993. The 996 barely got a glance. In isolation the 996.2 is a lovely thing but sit it next to a 993...
Then I drove them. First the 993 (bearing in mind I'd never driven any 911 before on the public road). Just felt 'classic'. Heavy, clunky, smelly, noisy. I absolutely loved it. Not an easy thing to steer on first aquaintance but bags and bags of character. Smitten.
Then the 996. Felt too stiff and crashy (like a BMW M-sport) for me but very very easy to drive. You got the impression you could sit in this and spank it from your very first drive. Huge progress really. Sounded great, drove great, bored me to tears.
So it turns out I wanted a classic car after all which for me (wanting a 2nd car and coming from caterhams) is not surprising.
In the end I couldn't bring myself to stump up £23K for a 96K mile 14 year old car that was beginning the inexorable rust process (many 993's are just hitting that age). To be fair it would have tidied up very nicely after a quick visit and light touch to the body shop (which would have been included). Very minor issues really but not what you are led to believe with 993's. So you'd think sense would kick in and I would have the 996 but no. I wanted a classic Porsche. In for a penny and all that. So I bought a nice 964. I mean it's not £10K worse than a 993. There's not alot in it actually.
Now if I'd driven a 996 in isolation and was looking for a daily drive, I would have loved it immensely.
I drove a 996 vs 993 back to back at Hartech a few weeks ago (who where incredibly helpful by the way and will surely get my servicing business in the future).
A 2003 996 C2 manual in black vs a 1996 993 C2 manual in silver.
I had a good 20mins alone with the cars in the showroom initially and couldn't take my eyes off the 993. The 996 barely got a glance. In isolation the 996.2 is a lovely thing but sit it next to a 993...
Then I drove them. First the 993 (bearing in mind I'd never driven any 911 before on the public road). Just felt 'classic'. Heavy, clunky, smelly, noisy. I absolutely loved it. Not an easy thing to steer on first aquaintance but bags and bags of character. Smitten.
Then the 996. Felt too stiff and crashy (like a BMW M-sport) for me but very very easy to drive. You got the impression you could sit in this and spank it from your very first drive. Huge progress really. Sounded great, drove great, bored me to tears.
So it turns out I wanted a classic car after all which for me (wanting a 2nd car and coming from caterhams) is not surprising.
In the end I couldn't bring myself to stump up £23K for a 96K mile 14 year old car that was beginning the inexorable rust process (many 993's are just hitting that age). To be fair it would have tidied up very nicely after a quick visit and light touch to the body shop (which would have been included). Very minor issues really but not what you are led to believe with 993's. So you'd think sense would kick in and I would have the 996 but no. I wanted a classic Porsche. In for a penny and all that. So I bought a nice 964. I mean it's not £10K worse than a 993. There's not alot in it actually.
Now if I'd driven a 996 in isolation and was looking for a daily drive, I would have loved it immensely.
fordy999 said:
In the end I couldn't bring myself to stump up £23K for a 96K mile 14 year old car that was beginning the inexorable rust process (many 993's are just hitting that age). To be fair it would have tidied up very nicely after a quick visit and light touch to the body shop (which would have been included). Very minor issues really but not what you are led to believe with 993's. So you'd think sense would kick in and I would have the 996 but no. I wanted a classic Porsche. In for a penny and all that. So I bought a nice 964. I mean it's not £10K worse than a 993. There's not alot in it actually.
Even though it probbaly won't depreciate a penny ?I have to say I don't get that thought process. Its like people who baulk at the cost of a Caterham R400 and then go out and spend 12k on a Westfield. Three years down the line the Caterham has lost 4k but teh wetsy is worth about tuppence and takes 8 months to sell.
That said, the 964 is a smart move and a great car and as yuo say, not a million miels away as an experience. Slightly rawrer and preferable to some as well.
I have owned 1x911sc and 3x964s in the mid nineties, and driven others. Had a break from 911's for many years, but 6 months ago I decided it was time to get back into one.
i looked at both, 993's and 996's. Both were a similar price.
I opted for the newer, 996. I now own a 996 40th Anniversary( 2004) which i have owned for 6 months. Its a 3.6, has limited slip diff, tweaked suspension as standard, and the x51 power option. Porsche made 1963 of them to celebrate 40 years of production.
Many of the classic things you associate with a 993 are lost in the 996, that solid door close, the classic lines, the note of the air cooled engine - but for me it doesnt matter - the 996 has its own character, its light, its good to drive, it still feels well built, stiffer chassis , and personally i like the shape of the car. The car has its own engine note - still very nice on the ear.
In my opinion the 996's still retain ''that porsche feel'' from the moment you drive them. I had not driven a 911 for many years, but as soon as i drove the 996 i could tell i was back in a 911, and i was hooked.
People bad mouth the 996, and its unjustified. The earlier 3.4's had issues, without doubt, but by 2001/2002 most of the problems had been sorted out.All 911's require work at some point ! thats the nature of the beast.
Many say the 993 was the pinnacle of porsche design and engineering, that may be true to some extent in the form at the time, but to say all this culmination of knowledge and production processes over the years were ''lost'' when Porsche built the 996 is a unfounded. In my opinion all that was transfered to the 996, just in a different, more modern form. They are not ''boring'' to drive, in fact, quite the opposite. Nimble, fast, sure footed, ergonomic dont constitute boring.
If you compare an old Aston, Lotus or Lambo now to the days of old, im sure everyone would agree that these cars too are not the same as they were in the 80's or 90's and have moved on.
I would still love to own a second porsche as well as my 996, but funds dont permit - but if i did it would be to own as a classic car, to hang on to that piece of time when Porsches were they way they were. With that said, i might actually buy a 964 - classic headlights, classic shape, classic sound. I m not sure if people remember, but when the 993 first came out, people didnt like the headlights on it either and preferred the look of the 964.
i looked at both, 993's and 996's. Both were a similar price.
I opted for the newer, 996. I now own a 996 40th Anniversary( 2004) which i have owned for 6 months. Its a 3.6, has limited slip diff, tweaked suspension as standard, and the x51 power option. Porsche made 1963 of them to celebrate 40 years of production.
Many of the classic things you associate with a 993 are lost in the 996, that solid door close, the classic lines, the note of the air cooled engine - but for me it doesnt matter - the 996 has its own character, its light, its good to drive, it still feels well built, stiffer chassis , and personally i like the shape of the car. The car has its own engine note - still very nice on the ear.
In my opinion the 996's still retain ''that porsche feel'' from the moment you drive them. I had not driven a 911 for many years, but as soon as i drove the 996 i could tell i was back in a 911, and i was hooked.
People bad mouth the 996, and its unjustified. The earlier 3.4's had issues, without doubt, but by 2001/2002 most of the problems had been sorted out.All 911's require work at some point ! thats the nature of the beast.
Many say the 993 was the pinnacle of porsche design and engineering, that may be true to some extent in the form at the time, but to say all this culmination of knowledge and production processes over the years were ''lost'' when Porsche built the 996 is a unfounded. In my opinion all that was transfered to the 996, just in a different, more modern form. They are not ''boring'' to drive, in fact, quite the opposite. Nimble, fast, sure footed, ergonomic dont constitute boring.
If you compare an old Aston, Lotus or Lambo now to the days of old, im sure everyone would agree that these cars too are not the same as they were in the 80's or 90's and have moved on.
I would still love to own a second porsche as well as my 996, but funds dont permit - but if i did it would be to own as a classic car, to hang on to that piece of time when Porsches were they way they were. With that said, i might actually buy a 964 - classic headlights, classic shape, classic sound. I m not sure if people remember, but when the 993 first came out, people didnt like the headlights on it either and preferred the look of the 964.
This debate can ride on for ever and there's many arguments for and against in both the 996 and 993. I think perhaps to an extent it depends on the intended use of daily or weekend. However I'd always go for the 993. My reasons below :-
1. All the advice on a 996 seems to always include, "Make sure you get a Porsche Warranty". Well that's fine, but I've never given any type of warranty thought on the 993 in 4.5 years of ownership....it's been totally reliable and I've had trips all over Europe in it.
2. I'm sorry, but I much prefer the looks of the 993....it's just dam pretty compared to the 996.
3. The 993 is a better built car than the 996. The 996 was produced to make money and you can see that in items such as those dam ugly headlights which are an all in one unit because they're cheaper to build that way.
4. Of course the 993 weighs more than the 996, it's made out of granite not plastic
5. I reckon the 993 is certainly more reliable. I have on good authority from Ray Northway, that they simply hardly ever go wrong. I even asked about spares for the Europe trip and the only item I was told about was the infamous DME relay. Compare that with the 996's intermediate shaft failures, RMS issues, total engine failures and rusted rads due to trapped leaves (nice design).
6. The 993 is stable price wise in the market place, while 996's can now be had for 13K and continue to fall.
7. I believe there were far more 996's produced than 993's....so I prefer the more unique sight of a 993, in which I hardly see them and it's therefore a delight when I do.
8. I know the 996 is a competent car and cross country would leave the 993 behind, but this is missing the point totally and those that boast this simply haven't experience cars enough in general and are likely to just boast BHP and 0-60's and then start talking about the pretty lights they've bought their car etc.
9. If you have a family then a 996 has more room.
10. I've driven both and fine the 993 to be a more rewarding driving experience.
That's it from me.
1. All the advice on a 996 seems to always include, "Make sure you get a Porsche Warranty". Well that's fine, but I've never given any type of warranty thought on the 993 in 4.5 years of ownership....it's been totally reliable and I've had trips all over Europe in it.
2. I'm sorry, but I much prefer the looks of the 993....it's just dam pretty compared to the 996.
3. The 993 is a better built car than the 996. The 996 was produced to make money and you can see that in items such as those dam ugly headlights which are an all in one unit because they're cheaper to build that way.
4. Of course the 993 weighs more than the 996, it's made out of granite not plastic
5. I reckon the 993 is certainly more reliable. I have on good authority from Ray Northway, that they simply hardly ever go wrong. I even asked about spares for the Europe trip and the only item I was told about was the infamous DME relay. Compare that with the 996's intermediate shaft failures, RMS issues, total engine failures and rusted rads due to trapped leaves (nice design).
6. The 993 is stable price wise in the market place, while 996's can now be had for 13K and continue to fall.
7. I believe there were far more 996's produced than 993's....so I prefer the more unique sight of a 993, in which I hardly see them and it's therefore a delight when I do.
8. I know the 996 is a competent car and cross country would leave the 993 behind, but this is missing the point totally and those that boast this simply haven't experience cars enough in general and are likely to just boast BHP and 0-60's and then start talking about the pretty lights they've bought their car etc.
9. If you have a family then a 996 has more room.
10. I've driven both and fine the 993 to be a more rewarding driving experience.
That's it from me.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well, it doesn't undermine the rest of what I say. I'll see if I can dig out the link, but I'm quoting from another website that went through the entire build budget of the car - it was very interesting. Maybe it was a smart move on Porsches part as they can be used on the boxster as well can't they...they look so similar from the front -I think the MkII 996 headlights are the biggest step forward (997 a step back) - am I blind?
-I think the M96 motor is one of the best sounding out there with a sports exhaust - am I deaf?
-My uncles MkII 996 never, ever had any problem. Ever. He owned it for 4 years - am I missing something?
(Awaits 'yes' to all
)
Seriously, if you get a good 996 they're solid as rock. You'll also be getting 993-trouncing performance all round, nicer sound, nicer interior, better fuel economy, more space etc etc. Get an inspection before buying or purchase from a very well respected specialist. If you get a good one you're laughing - they're the performance bargains of today!
-I think the M96 motor is one of the best sounding out there with a sports exhaust - am I deaf?
-My uncles MkII 996 never, ever had any problem. Ever. He owned it for 4 years - am I missing something?
(Awaits 'yes' to all
)Seriously, if you get a good 996 they're solid as rock. You'll also be getting 993-trouncing performance all round, nicer sound, nicer interior, better fuel economy, more space etc etc. Get an inspection before buying or purchase from a very well respected specialist. If you get a good one you're laughing - they're the performance bargains of today!
I have had and enjoyed my 996c4s for over a year now, no major problems at all, of course it has known and documented issues, then again so does the 993 (rust problems, oil leaks etc )
I chose a 996 because i really do believe every model is a step up in performance and handling,
if money was no object i would be in a 997 turbo.
The 3 will allways hold its value better, mainly due to the rarity of the model, it was the last of the aircooled generation, i allways found them to be noisy as most aircooled cars are.
As for the panels being thinner and bending when opening and shutting doors etc, what utter tosh,
mine feels solid and planted on the road, can be used daily and returns good fuel consumption.
It all comes down to personal choice, but some people wont have that and will defend their choice to the grave, they really do need to get out more.
I chose a 996 because i really do believe every model is a step up in performance and handling,
if money was no object i would be in a 997 turbo.
The 3 will allways hold its value better, mainly due to the rarity of the model, it was the last of the aircooled generation, i allways found them to be noisy as most aircooled cars are.
As for the panels being thinner and bending when opening and shutting doors etc, what utter tosh,
mine feels solid and planted on the road, can be used daily and returns good fuel consumption.
It all comes down to personal choice, but some people wont have that and will defend their choice to the grave, they really do need to get out more.
Pr1964 said:
In the looks dept...
993 is up there with the DB5 and Dino for it's classy classic beauty.
996 is more ford mondeo and mx5 edit to add and a little "citroen ds"
Behind the wheel both are great cars.
Yeah I agree...Ford Mondeo that is.993 is up there with the DB5 and Dino for it's classy classic beauty.
996 is more ford mondeo and mx5 edit to add and a little "citroen ds"
Behind the wheel both are great cars.
Edited by Pr1964 on Sunday 2nd January 14:49
Pr1964 said:
In the looks dept...
993is up there with the DB5 and Dino for it's classy classic beauty has a nice ass.
996is more ford mondeo and mx5 edit to add and a little "citroen ds" is a new direction with smooth curves and a more modern, purposeful look.
Behind the wheel both are great cars.
993
996
Behind the wheel both are great cars.
Edited by Pr1964 on Sunday 2nd January 14:49
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