Gonna buy me a 944S2 I think...
Discussion
So what goes wrong and how much does it cost to put right...
The one I'm thinking of has had a new clutch in recent time but the belts and stuff plus a precautionary water pump are on their way in the next 6 months. I keep reading about belts and tensioning them in all the adverts if some kind sole could enlighten me to what actually happens I'd be most grateful?! And again guideline visa bills would be gratefully recieved.
Having driven a Turbo SE at the weekend closely followed by a 968 (wow but too many pennies for me) how does an S2 compare?!
cheers
Jason
The one I'm thinking of has had a new clutch in recent time but the belts and stuff plus a precautionary water pump are on their way in the next 6 months. I keep reading about belts and tensioning them in all the adverts if some kind sole could enlighten me to what actually happens I'd be most grateful?! And again guideline visa bills would be gratefully recieved.
Having driven a Turbo SE at the weekend closely followed by a 968 (wow but too many pennies for me) how does an S2 compare?!
cheers
Jason
Belts (balance and cam), camshafts, PAS pump, water pump - well over 2k in all. You could spend half the purchase cost putting a doggy one right.
Get an inspection and buy the best you can afford.
IMO, they feel a ton slower than the turbos (but I have only owned a 944S2 cab and 944 Turbo non-SE). The turbo is seriously rapid, with a lot of torque in any gear. The S2 had a linear power delivery and not as much torquep; you had to keep it on the boil and frankly it never felt that quick. Even 968CSs I've driven haven't overwhelmed me in the grunt dept.
Buy an S2 for handling. Arguably they are nicer than turbos as the gob of turbo torque won't catch you out mid corner on a wet road and the n/a engine is easier to adjust precisely.
Get an inspection and buy the best you can afford.
IMO, they feel a ton slower than the turbos (but I have only owned a 944S2 cab and 944 Turbo non-SE). The turbo is seriously rapid, with a lot of torque in any gear. The S2 had a linear power delivery and not as much torquep; you had to keep it on the boil and frankly it never felt that quick. Even 968CSs I've driven haven't overwhelmed me in the grunt dept.
Buy an S2 for handling. Arguably they are nicer than turbos as the gob of turbo torque won't catch you out mid corner on a wet road and the n/a engine is easier to adjust precisely.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Especially with 300 bhp
[pic]www.pistonheads.com/pipe/a4bb89d352d587da6a13f530b085911c/classifiedpics/21386-3t.jpg|www.pistonheads.com/pipe/a4bb89d352d587da6a13f530b085911c/classifiedpics/21386-3t.jpg[/pic]
>> Edited by Bananaman on Tuesday 20th April 16:42
jaseb said:
Having driven a Turbo SE at the weekend closely followed by a 968 (wow but too many pennies for me)
Jason
Jason
We had a conversation about this at my unit, when you drove the cars. S2 is a great 211BHP car but if not looked after the chains/belts can be ruinous financially if it all goes wrong. The Turbo SE you drove represents excellent value and comes with a warranty.Overall it is less complicated and offers immense "bang for your buck"
The advice to buy the best car you can afford is good. A bad car almost always remains a bad car no matter how much you spend on it.
Allan
I'll be doing 20k miles plus a year, would that have any bearing on your comments?!
That and me budget is restricted - had a car nicked, thrashed and crashed (into 2 police cars...) and the police are keeping it for evidence for the forseeable, leaves me without an insurance payout and the new wheels funded from not quite deep enough pockets
otherwise I admit I'd be in for a 968.
That and me budget is restricted - had a car nicked, thrashed and crashed (into 2 police cars...) and the police are keeping it for evidence for the forseeable, leaves me without an insurance payout and the new wheels funded from not quite deep enough pockets
otherwise I admit I'd be in for a 968.
domster said:
Belts (balance and cam), camshafts, PAS pump, water pump - well over 2k in all. You could spend half the purchase cost putting a doggy one right.
Not to mention torque tube bearings, gearboxes, front wishbones, caliper re-builds & engine mount.
A nice S2 is an excellent car, one needing all the above done can indeed be a money pit, do all the above & your wallet will be approx £5k lighter.
To add an a optimistic note, few 'sports cars' would run 200,000 miles rock solid like those old 80s Porsche would and actually DO if maintained correctly. 
They cost but at least the money spent makes itself felt straight from the car.
I've had mine for 3 years and after 36,000 miles it feels just as good as when I bought it - actually even better after some suspension tweaks.
>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 20th April 18:59
They cost but at least the money spent makes itself felt straight from the car.
I've had mine for 3 years and after 36,000 miles it feels just as good as when I bought it - actually even better after some suspension tweaks.
>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 20th April 18:59
I would go for the turbo 250 BHP model. I bought one of these six years ago and it never let me down in the two years I owned it. The 911 Carerra Sport Coupe I replaced it with felt rather lackingin comparison in terms of straight line go. I once drove a 944S2 but it didn't feel particularly quick.
Both models represent fine value for money though providing you buy a good one. Good luck
Geoff
Both models represent fine value for money though providing you buy a good one. Good luck
Geoff
cuneus said:
"Overall it is less complicated"
in what way exactly ?
I would call the single cam turbo engine much less complicated than the twin cam nat asp. Leave the turbo cars as they left the factory and they are bomb proof.
Perhaps complicated was a poor choice of words but less issues with Cam Followers, Cam sprockets, Cam chains, Cam belts etc.
The "complexity" is not the issue on forced induction engines but "easy" BHP increases to be had. This leads to shortening of component service life and increase in use of your plastic, therby creating the impression of expensive or unreliable engines.
Just MHO
Allan
Allan
uktrucks said:
"Overall it is less complicated"
in what way exactly ?
I would call the single cam turbo engine much less complicated than the twin cam nat asp. Leave the turbo cars as they left the factory and they are bomb proof.
Perhaps complicated was a poor choice of words but less issues with Cam Followers, Cam sprockets, Cam chains, Cam belts etc.
The "complexity" is not the issue on forced induction engines but "easy" BHP increases to be had. This leads to shortening of component service life and increase in use of your plastic, therby creating the impression of expensive or unreliable engines.
Just MHO
Allan
Allan
Yes, but at the very least get a Boost enhancer. £100, 5 minutes to install. It keeps the wastegate closed for longer, so you have more boost (hence more power) lower down the rev range. The wastegate will still open at higher revs 9therefore higher boost) so it is compleatly safe.
Just feels a lot quicker through the gears.
Oh, and a Bailey dump valve: the Bosch one fitted as standard is useless. £70 ish
Oh, and re-do the Vacuum hoses. The engine will be smoother, the heater will work, the boost will stay for longer. About £30.
That's all you need to make a good car great. Of course, if you buy a Turbo you will want to chip it, then change the wastegate, then...
The S2 just needs certain things checking changing which are not on the service schedule: Chains and the plastic slipper
The camblet is the same deal with the turbo (both are interference engines)
There are lots of other potential issues with the extra gubbins on the turbo, vacuum leaks, tired wastegate etc
Don't get me wrong I love the turbo
so I would say "overall the turbo is more complex"
www.944turbo.org.uk
The camblet is the same deal with the turbo (both are interference engines)
There are lots of other potential issues with the extra gubbins on the turbo, vacuum leaks, tired wastegate etc
Don't get me wrong I love the turbo
so I would say "overall the turbo is more complex"
www.944turbo.org.uk
Thom said:
To add an a optimistic note, few 'sports cars' would run 200,000 miles rock solid like those old 80s Porsche would and actually DO if maintained correctly.
They cost but at least the money spent makes itself felt straight from the car.
I've had mine for 3 years and after 36,000 miles it feels just as good as when I bought it - actually even better after some suspension tweaks.
>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 20th April 18:59
Agree, had mine for 2.5 years and 27k miles later its still going strong, as good if not better than when I bought it. Its by no means concours and has been by no means cheap to run. You pays your money and you makes your choice. Personally I would take Domsters advice. Get one that has had all those usual niggly jobs done already and you'll be laughing. Look for a cherished car with an enthusiastic owner, lots of paperwork and everything in order. See last months 911 & World for an S2 write up.
My Dad's 968 feels little different from my S2, indeed the ride is slightly more jarring and its definitely not twice as good, despite being twice the price!
Never driven a turbo (yet), but would definitely like to try one.
All depends on how you plan use the car and what you want to get out of it.
The N/A and Turbo debate will reign on. If I could, I'd like to have both!
I did 100k miles in my 2 944 S2s in 3.5 years. In some ways I miss the ability to absolutely commit in very sharp twisties. Great cars and capable of 30k annual with about 2k service costs IMO. I never bothered with the stamp for the 6k one, did it myself and sorted all the brakes etc( why bother with such low residuals?). Had the cambelt and chains changed in plenty of time at the OPC to get the guarantee. Buy the best possible S2 you can and do not be afraid to offer 2 to 3k less than the asking allow 1500 for fixing the bits and bobs. Chipped my last 944 purchase by 4k 
Depends if you want a smooth, driveable road car thats pretty quick, with no booost to catch you out mid corner
I was driving my S2 down a tight B-road the other day and was on and off the throttle quite a bit, which made me wonder how a turbo would behave in similar circumstances. Most of the time I was well under 3000 rpm in 2nd/3rd gear, which is where the S2 compares favourably to a turbo, which off boost is basically a lower compression 944 lux...
It's when you're on fast sweeping roads and track days that the turbo will be a lot quicker though, so if this is you're prefered type of driving and you like the kick from a turbo car then that's the one to go for.
(not actually driven a turbo, just what I understand to be true from what people have said in the past)
I was driving my S2 down a tight B-road the other day and was on and off the throttle quite a bit, which made me wonder how a turbo would behave in similar circumstances. Most of the time I was well under 3000 rpm in 2nd/3rd gear, which is where the S2 compares favourably to a turbo, which off boost is basically a lower compression 944 lux...
It's when you're on fast sweeping roads and track days that the turbo will be a lot quicker though, so if this is you're prefered type of driving and you like the kick from a turbo car then that's the one to go for.
(not actually driven a turbo, just what I understand to be true from what people have said in the past)
Since I have a S2 and love the car, I'm not qualified to comment further. I could suggest you pass on the S2 so someone like me would be able to snatch it up.
Not the fastest car by turbo standards, but plenty fast, and by Porsche's own owner's manual figures, the S2 is actually faster down the quarter mile than my '83 928 5-speed, which was the fastest car sold in North America, including any and all turbos made by Porsche or anyone else. That puts the S2 in pretty nice company. So ask yourself, just how fast do you plan to go????
If covering the quarter mile in perhaps a hair over 14.5 seconds isn't fast enough, then pull out your check book and do something about it! Personally, I would never turn down "more power" but I'm here to tell you I can get into plenty of trouble with the power I already have, believe me, and few people on this forum would be able to sit in the passenger seat strapped in without screaming for mercy before I got out of third gear. I know, it's either my driving skill or lack thereof, but so far, most everyone screams for mercy before I get halfway thorugh third gear, regardless of which Porsche I'm driving.
regards, Dogsharks
Not the fastest car by turbo standards, but plenty fast, and by Porsche's own owner's manual figures, the S2 is actually faster down the quarter mile than my '83 928 5-speed, which was the fastest car sold in North America, including any and all turbos made by Porsche or anyone else. That puts the S2 in pretty nice company. So ask yourself, just how fast do you plan to go????
If covering the quarter mile in perhaps a hair over 14.5 seconds isn't fast enough, then pull out your check book and do something about it! Personally, I would never turn down "more power" but I'm here to tell you I can get into plenty of trouble with the power I already have, believe me, and few people on this forum would be able to sit in the passenger seat strapped in without screaming for mercy before I got out of third gear. I know, it's either my driving skill or lack thereof, but so far, most everyone screams for mercy before I get halfway thorugh third gear, regardless of which Porsche I'm driving.
regards, Dogsharks
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