dyno (straight 6)
Discussion
Christof,
I live/work in Germany. When I was up at the factory speccing up my Tamora in March I asked the question of Tuscan S engine/brakes in the Tamora as the chassis is the same and because I live in Germany with a few derestricted motorway sections etc etc. Danielle tokd me she had asked P Wheeler on my behalf and the answer was categorical ´no`
Now I have my car here in Germany and have had the chance to open her up a bit on the motorway I am certain more power/bigger brakes(WITH ABS see other posts!) would be a bonus.
How are you going to convince PW to let you have it?
Talking of weight:
I weighed my Tamora at work. I weigh 72kg, I had ca. 35 litres of fuel in the tank and weight was ca. 1180 kg.
So ca. 1070kg Leergewicht
Is that light enough for you?
I live/work in Germany. When I was up at the factory speccing up my Tamora in March I asked the question of Tuscan S engine/brakes in the Tamora as the chassis is the same and because I live in Germany with a few derestricted motorway sections etc etc. Danielle tokd me she had asked P Wheeler on my behalf and the answer was categorical ´no`
Now I have my car here in Germany and have had the chance to open her up a bit on the motorway I am certain more power/bigger brakes(WITH ABS see other posts!) would be a bonus.
How are you going to convince PW to let you have it?
Talking of weight:
I weighed my Tamora at work. I weigh 72kg, I had ca. 35 litres of fuel in the tank and weight was ca. 1180 kg.
So ca. 1070kg Leergewicht
Is that light enough for you?
quote:Blimey, this is all just extrapolation isn't it - you're just pulling numbers out of the air - you say there's no reliable data, and then say "but it's known"... by who? TVR? Dealer? Where does the "more than 20 to 30bhp" difference come from? The same place that the original power figures come from?
Happy to explain one more time. Unadjusted dyno = 358. Correction = 15-20 (per PowerStation staff on the day and documented in subsequent emails; note that the correction for the other Tuscan dyno'd is 16.5). No reliable data exists for pre- versus post-valve clearance adjustment bhps. However, it is known to be greater than the 20-30bhp difference between RR/S and non-RR/S engines. Mine was idling at 500rpm (lowest idle experienced), but call it 30 to be conservative. Assume no benefit for 6k service engine adjustments or other general running-in. Worst-case is therefore 358 + 15 + 30 = 403 (best-case maybe 420+, but who knows). I would consider this within individual engine tolerances (my Griff 500 is around 15 bhp lower than average, for example) and I would also expect it to fall off a bit as the valve clearances unadjust themselves.
Unadjusted clearances DON'T cost that much power - my engine gained very little power from having them adjusted from being bad, but did FEEL *much* better at lower/mid revs and part throttle - again, this is all driveability rather than testing peak power.
The correction factor was purely a guess by the powerstation staff, and probably just to make people feel better - mine got 350 that day, and 350 on a subsequent corrected road, so I reckon it was actually realistic at the time (other cars from that day also got the same on other roads).
I agree the individual engines vary, but I don't believe that any are significantly BETTER than published figures, though lots are worse.
I think it's silly for you to quote 400+ as fact when it's only been tested at 358 - just like TVR when it comes to making numbers up.
Hopefully you'll come to the next group dyno day and clear things up! :-)
Grigio alloy,
well we have to wait and see what happen with the upgrated engine
1070KG is ok, compared with 1240 KG for the Tuscan and the Cerbera.
But this make the Tamora even lighter than the Tuscan R. Strange world.
Cheers,
Christof
PS: Are you german or english and living/working in Germany???
well we have to wait and see what happen with the upgrated engine
1070KG is ok, compared with 1240 KG for the Tuscan and the Cerbera.
But this make the Tamora even lighter than the Tuscan R. Strange world.
Cheers,
Christof
PS: Are you german or english and living/working in Germany???
Christof,
I am an Inselaffe working in Germany. My car is UK registered as my Wohnsitz is obviously in England.
If you are ever in the area south of Heidelberg maybe you can show me this monster Cerbera you have.
As I have reported under `TAMORA´ there is alot of kudos having a TVR in Germany as you have also certainly experienced.
A Tamora S would really show the smug 911/M3/M5 drivers that there is a new kid on the block. The SL 55AMG is however far too quick-as I discoverd on the A5. Please see if you can use your good connection to TVR to persuade them into doing this . The only problem I see is that it would be quicker than the more expensive Tuscan S.
I am an Inselaffe working in Germany. My car is UK registered as my Wohnsitz is obviously in England.
If you are ever in the area south of Heidelberg maybe you can show me this monster Cerbera you have.
As I have reported under `TAMORA´ there is alot of kudos having a TVR in Germany as you have also certainly experienced.
A Tamora S would really show the smug 911/M3/M5 drivers that there is a new kid on the block. The SL 55AMG is however far too quick-as I discoverd on the A5. Please see if you can use your good connection to TVR to persuade them into doing this . The only problem I see is that it would be quicker than the more expensive Tuscan S.
Bertie,
nope, wasn't specified.
I'm a little bit concerned about the power weight ratio of the Tuscan R.
I'm also very worried about the resale value after 1 year, as I would like to get a new toy in 1 or 2 years time.
Yep you are right, I'm currently thinking of ordering a Ferrari Enzo
All I can say, wait for the new TVR
Christof
nope, wasn't specified.
I'm a little bit concerned about the power weight ratio of the Tuscan R.
I'm also very worried about the resale value after 1 year, as I would like to get a new toy in 1 or 2 years time.
Yep you are right, I'm currently thinking of ordering a Ferrari Enzo
All I can say, wait for the new TVR
Christof
quote:
Bertie,
I'm also very worried about the resale value after 1 year, as I would like to get a new toy in 1 or 2 years time.
Yep you are right, I'm currently thinking of ordering a Ferrari Enzo
Christof
Well knock me down with a feather!!
After all the stick you gave me.......I don't know how you can!
The comment about resale value is exactly my concern, how big a market is there for a £75K used TVR??
I knew sense would prevail, welcome to the dancing donkey club!!!
Nope, no Fer**** for me, couldn't even spell the word
I like to be special and a Fer**** is quite common here in Germany and I definately don't like to be member of the drivers club. Don't like their attitude at all
Maybe it's a different situation in the UK, but I don't like people with upper class attitude.
Maybe the ENZO could make me tempted, if i could afford it
I personally think that TVR will learn a lot about handling and highspeed stability with the Tuscan R.
So we can be pretty sure that the next Cerbera
will be the best TVR ever. 
Christof
I like to be special and a Fer**** is quite common here in Germany and I definately don't like to be member of the drivers club. Don't like their attitude at all
Maybe it's a different situation in the UK, but I don't like people with upper class attitude.
Maybe the ENZO could make me tempted, if i could afford it
I personally think that TVR will learn a lot about handling and highspeed stability with the Tuscan R.
So we can be pretty sure that the next Cerbera
will be the best TVR ever. Christof
No extrapolation (this would need a data series), just a conservative estimate based on previous findings.
Yes, bhp increase is known by TVR, dealers and owners to be "considerable" - also see the tuscan-owners list for plenty of anecdotal evidence. Unless I'm missing something, you are talking about clearances for a 4.5L AJP V8. They are entirely different engines, so I don't understand the basis for the comparison.
Yes, the 15-20bhp correction factor was an estimate by PowerStation staff based on their (considerable) experience. As I said, the only other Tuscan dyno test - on identical equipment to that used by PowerStation - produced a correction of +16.5bhp, so I've no reason to doubt their judgement. I used the lowest end of their estimate, but given the range was 15-20 for cars measured at 250-358, on reflection that should probably be 20 rather than 15.
So, not suggesting that the car was putting out any more than 378 on the day, just explaining why 400-plus is expected now. This is consistent with results from the other 'standard' Tuscan which was a nominal 360, but actual 373 (even ignoring valve clearances), and also the review of the Tuscan R in this month's Evo which talks of the 4.0 Straight 6 being fettled to 440bhp (no mention of a 4.2 version).
Very happy to come Cerbie-whopping again if it'll remove all doubt that Tuscans are anything less than 50bhp more gutsy than Sir-bras.
Yes, bhp increase is known by TVR, dealers and owners to be "considerable" - also see the tuscan-owners list for plenty of anecdotal evidence. Unless I'm missing something, you are talking about clearances for a 4.5L AJP V8. They are entirely different engines, so I don't understand the basis for the comparison.
Yes, the 15-20bhp correction factor was an estimate by PowerStation staff based on their (considerable) experience. As I said, the only other Tuscan dyno test - on identical equipment to that used by PowerStation - produced a correction of +16.5bhp, so I've no reason to doubt their judgement. I used the lowest end of their estimate, but given the range was 15-20 for cars measured at 250-358, on reflection that should probably be 20 rather than 15.
So, not suggesting that the car was putting out any more than 378 on the day, just explaining why 400-plus is expected now. This is consistent with results from the other 'standard' Tuscan which was a nominal 360, but actual 373 (even ignoring valve clearances), and also the review of the Tuscan R in this month's Evo which talks of the 4.0 Straight 6 being fettled to 440bhp (no mention of a 4.2 version).
Very happy to come Cerbie-whopping again if it'll remove all doubt that Tuscans are anything less than 50bhp more gutsy than Sir-bras.
lovely to read the ilght hearted banter going on here .. you guys seem like really good mates having a bit of a laugh. wonderful.
interesting thing in motor cycle news in the ray stringer bit once .. he sets the valves a bit close on the clearances for racing cos it gains him power, now obviously a four valve (in the case of the article) bike engine is nothing like a four valve car engine (!) but that would indicate that outright max power might actually drop with the clearances opened up? It's my understanding (and I may be very wrong on this - wouldn't be the first time) that the clearances are reset larger at service time to lengthen the time between clearances naturally closing up and causing poor low speed running and misfires and slow tickover .. a symptom of the valve stems stretching I think it was (unconfirmed hearsay). This might to a very cynical person allow the engines to run fairly well until outside the two year warranty period at which point : oh dear, no shims small enough to get a clearance : rebuild time..
I would seriously doubt that larger clearances by two thou (for that is the extra clearance you get) would net you an extra 3 bhp never mind 30 bhp but will improve low speed response, but I'd love to meet both robin and danny at the rollers to find out, now that sounds like fun.
cheerz, and take care you guys.
interesting thing in motor cycle news in the ray stringer bit once .. he sets the valves a bit close on the clearances for racing cos it gains him power, now obviously a four valve (in the case of the article) bike engine is nothing like a four valve car engine (!) but that would indicate that outright max power might actually drop with the clearances opened up? It's my understanding (and I may be very wrong on this - wouldn't be the first time) that the clearances are reset larger at service time to lengthen the time between clearances naturally closing up and causing poor low speed running and misfires and slow tickover .. a symptom of the valve stems stretching I think it was (unconfirmed hearsay). This might to a very cynical person allow the engines to run fairly well until outside the two year warranty period at which point : oh dear, no shims small enough to get a clearance : rebuild time..
I would seriously doubt that larger clearances by two thou (for that is the extra clearance you get) would net you an extra 3 bhp never mind 30 bhp but will improve low speed response, but I'd love to meet both robin and danny at the rollers to find out, now that sounds like fun.
cheerz, and take care you guys.
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