TVRCraft in exclusive partnership with Al Mellings
Discussion
I just got the word, TVRCraft (Autocraft), (they're definitely getting around recently, noticed the news story about their 500+ bhp MG ZT and Rover engines support on the front page too),
well from their website it looks like they are in exclusive partnership with MCD, Al Mellings company(the original designer of the Speed 6 and Speed 8 engines) to provide a service to all Speed 6 owners to rebuild their engines to original MCD specification. (the bombproof design from what I hear)
Looks like christmas has come early for many speed 6 owners, this is a blessing and a half.
Apparently when the engine is rebuilt to MCD's original specification with relevent materials and components, you will end up with a trouble free engine and plenty of sleep....
This is great news! looks like the missis is gonna get a cheap mk1 tuscan afterall
(You heard it from me first!)
Oops forget the link www.tvrcraft.com
>> Edited by S-X-S on Monday 23 May 21:12
well from their website it looks like they are in exclusive partnership with MCD, Al Mellings company(the original designer of the Speed 6 and Speed 8 engines) to provide a service to all Speed 6 owners to rebuild their engines to original MCD specification. (the bombproof design from what I hear)
Looks like christmas has come early for many speed 6 owners, this is a blessing and a half.
Apparently when the engine is rebuilt to MCD's original specification with relevent materials and components, you will end up with a trouble free engine and plenty of sleep....
This is great news! looks like the missis is gonna get a cheap mk1 tuscan afterall
(You heard it from me first!)
Oops forget the link www.tvrcraft.com
>> Edited by S-X-S on Monday 23 May 21:12
los angeles said:
Interesting. And the warranty .... ?
On the website it says:
www.tvrcraft.com said:
All rebuilds are to MCD specification and will include a 12,000 mile warranty as standard (extended warranties can be arranged, although conditions will apply, please contact us for further details).
It'll be interesting to see how the relationship last as his last venture with the ex-owner of Henley Heritage fell on rocky ground quite quickly and I was informed they are both sueing (sp) each other ...
The original design drawings for the engine (allegedly) are the ones at Henley Heritage, although I am sure A Melling still has a copy or two ...
The original design drawings for the engine (allegedly) are the ones at Henley Heritage, although I am sure A Melling still has a copy or two ...
dvpeace said:
Interesting. And the warranty .... ?
No much of a waranty on an engine that will be pullet proof! I would have expected 24 or 36k miles.
I checked up about this, and effectively under a routine checkup at each 6k with them, they will allow extension on the insurance by 6000miles a time after the initial 12k.
Basically the 12k is up front, to prevent those who dont 'treat' their engines nicely in respect to keeping an eye on the oil level and doing routine oil changes and warming up before tearing down the roads from abusing the 12k warranty. From what I was told when I asked further, basically the head work can be warranted for life if each 6k they do a routine checkup.
Sounds fair-play to me, its not the same as a car company trying to up the sales by introducing a longer warranty.... which is all good, but a completely different agenda, and I like many still dont believe they've got the engines 100% sorted although mechanical reliability is far better than the old days noticeably (excluding electrics, that was and will always be a problem area for a company which makes everything in-house and is not even ISO9001 registered).
GreenV8S said:
Does that mean they'll extend the warrantee unconditionally as long as you let them inspect it every 6k miles, or only as long as the 6k check doesn't reveal any impending problems? A warrantee that stops at the first sign of trouble isn't much use to anyone!
Because you're under warranty, I'm assuming this would include any required work under warranty. I think the check is more a health service session to detect if there are any other impeding problems that could lead to failure ie a dodgy bottom end or timing etc. Al Mellings original design is bullet-proof as far as the rebuild to spec is concerned, its just a pitty that the original design was not used for these engines, ring up Autocraft if you want an insight into the difference between the original design and the TVR modified design.
There were reasons for the change from original design, but this forum is not the appropriate place to discuss those issues, I think Ted would agree with me. Maybe you should ring up TVR and ask them why the design changed?
So let me get this right, for nearly the same price as a brand new one of these:
www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=458&Category_ID=2
Let that sink in: "720 horsepower at 6250 RPM and 685 ft.lbs. of torque at 4500 RPM"
...these guys will modify my existing engine to make it reliable?
I seriously considered a nice classic American before buying my current Tuscan. I think i made a mistake....!
The bit about having them inspect it every 6000 miles is a neat idea but not for me in Manchester! (though commercially its a great way to get repeat custom from owners who will no doubt have their car serviced at the same time)
Surely MCD would be better licensing the design to a few people?
It seems very expensive indeed. I was expecting about half or 2/3's of that - even the TVR Power rebuild is under £4000.... The affected cars are only worth from maybe 18k to 25k. Somehow I doubt this work would increase the value of my car by 6 grand....
"all new valves, valve springs, valve spring retainers, locks, valve stem seals, guides and finger followers to the MCD design. It also includes a modified oil system for the cylinder head" £5000 & VAT! the time will come when someone decides to drop a Chevy boat anchor into these cars (OK so it'll involve butchering the chassis a bit but reliability and power at low prices come very cheaply....). 500hp and all that noise....
Nice as it sounds I wasn't expecting it to be just shy of 6 grand..... If it works that's great but I reckon there'll be a few owners that will prefer to save the 2 or 3 grand and take their chances until this has been proven over time.
Now I'm going to go out in my VW beetle with a race engine where all that work would cost, oooh, about £400 .
www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=458&Category_ID=2
Let that sink in: "720 horsepower at 6250 RPM and 685 ft.lbs. of torque at 4500 RPM"
...these guys will modify my existing engine to make it reliable?
I seriously considered a nice classic American before buying my current Tuscan. I think i made a mistake....!
The bit about having them inspect it every 6000 miles is a neat idea but not for me in Manchester! (though commercially its a great way to get repeat custom from owners who will no doubt have their car serviced at the same time)
Surely MCD would be better licensing the design to a few people?
It seems very expensive indeed. I was expecting about half or 2/3's of that - even the TVR Power rebuild is under £4000.... The affected cars are only worth from maybe 18k to 25k. Somehow I doubt this work would increase the value of my car by 6 grand....
"all new valves, valve springs, valve spring retainers, locks, valve stem seals, guides and finger followers to the MCD design. It also includes a modified oil system for the cylinder head" £5000 & VAT! the time will come when someone decides to drop a Chevy boat anchor into these cars (OK so it'll involve butchering the chassis a bit but reliability and power at low prices come very cheaply....). 500hp and all that noise....
Nice as it sounds I wasn't expecting it to be just shy of 6 grand..... If it works that's great but I reckon there'll be a few owners that will prefer to save the 2 or 3 grand and take their chances until this has been proven over time.
Now I'm going to go out in my VW beetle with a race engine where all that work would cost, oooh, about £400 .
timarrowsmith said:
So let me get this right, for nearly the same price as a brand new one of these:
www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=458&Category_ID=2
Let that sink in: "720 horsepower at 6250 RPM and 685 ft.lbs. of torque at 4500 RPM"
...these guys will modify my existing engine to make it reliable?
I seriously considered a nice classic American before buying my current Tuscan. I think i made a mistake....!
The bit about having them inspect it every 6000 miles is a neat idea but not for me in Manchester! (though commercially its a great way to get repeat custom from owners who will no doubt have their car serviced at the same time)
Surely MCD would be better licensing the design to a few people?
It seems very expensive indeed. I was expecting about half or 2/3's of that - even the TVR Power rebuild is under £4000.... The affected cars are only worth from maybe 18k to 25k. Somehow I doubt this work would increase the value of my car by 6 grand....
"all new valves, valve springs, valve spring retainers, locks, valve stem seals, guides and finger followers to the MCD design. It also includes a modified oil system for the cylinder head" £5000 & VAT! the time will come when someone decides to drop a Chevy boat anchor into these cars (OK so it'll involve butchering the chassis a bit but reliability and power at low prices come very cheaply....). 500hp and all that noise....
Nice as it sounds I wasn't expecting it to be just shy of 6 grand..... If it works that's great but I reckon there'll be a few owners that will prefer to save the 2 or 3 grand and take their chances until this has been proven over time.
Now I'm going to go out in my VW beetle with a race engine where all that work would cost, oooh, about £400 .
Have to agree 100% with you here, 6K is just plain silly No matter how you look at it!
chris watton said:
timarrowsmith said:
So let me get this right, for nearly the same price as a brand new one of these:
www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=458&Category_ID=2
Let that sink in: "720 horsepower at 6250 RPM and 685 ft.lbs. of torque at 4500 RPM"
...these guys will modify my existing engine to make it reliable?
I seriously considered a nice classic American before buying my current Tuscan. I think i made a mistake....!
The bit about having them inspect it every 6000 miles is a neat idea but not for me in Manchester! (though commercially its a great way to get repeat custom from owners who will no doubt have their car serviced at the same time)
Surely MCD would be better licensing the design to a few people?
It seems very expensive indeed. I was expecting about half or 2/3's of that - even the TVR Power rebuild is under £4000.... The affected cars are only worth from maybe 18k to 25k. Somehow I doubt this work would increase the value of my car by 6 grand....
"all new valves, valve springs, valve spring retainers, locks, valve stem seals, guides and finger followers to the MCD design. It also includes a modified oil system for the cylinder head" £5000 & VAT! the time will come when someone decides to drop a Chevy boat anchor into these cars (OK so it'll involve butchering the chassis a bit but reliability and power at low prices come very cheaply....). 500hp and all that noise....
Nice as it sounds I wasn't expecting it to be just shy of 6 grand..... If it works that's great but I reckon there'll be a few owners that will prefer to save the 2 or 3 grand and take their chances until this has been proven over time.
Now I'm going to go out in my VW beetle with a race engine where all that work would cost, oooh, about £400 .
Have to agree 100% with you here, 6K is just plain silly No matter how you look at it!
The TVR power upgrade from 3.6 to 4.0ltr and blueprinted with redrose head conversion and all new pistons, new crank, new rods valve and the new MBE chip is £5900 in vat. The crank is 1800 + VAT of that £5900.00
TVR must know the fix to the cam and followers, I cant for one minute think they haven't worked it out, they had the origional engine designs. In the Red Rose conversion the head is reworked, this is £400 of the cost, and in that £5900, you get 6 new injectors too.
SO you get a brand new engine for just under 6k from power, all new components, except block and the amount of time spent on the reworked head, I cannot put down to just gas flowing, or bigger valves...
Mr F
timarrowsmith said:
So let me get this right, for nearly the same price as a brand new one of these:
www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=458&Category_ID=2
Let that sink in: "720 horsepower at 6250 RPM and 685 ft.lbs. of torque at 4500 RPM"
drool. now you're talking... a company that could modify tuscans and stick this baby in it...oh god.. I need to go the the bathroom.
stu
Mr Freefall said:
The TVR power upgrade from 3.6 to 4.0ltr and blueprinted with redrose head conversion and all new pistons, new crank, new rods valve and the new MBE chip is £5900 in vat. The crank is 1800 + VAT of that £5900.00
TVR must know the fix to the cam and followers, I cant for one minute think they haven't worked it out, they had the origional engine designs. In the Red Rose conversion the head is reworked, this is £400 of the cost, and in that £5900, you get 6 new injectors too.
SO you get a brand new engine for just under 6k from power, all new components, except block and the amount of time spent on the reworked head, I cannot put down to just gas flowing, or bigger valves...
Mr F
Interesting, but why would one need all that work doing, if the main problem area is only in the heads? (well apart from going from 3.6 to 4)
What warranty comes with this job from TVR Power?
S-X-S said:
Mr Freefall said:
The TVR power upgrade from 3.6 to 4.0ltr and blueprinted with redrose head conversion and all new pistons, new crank, new rods valve and the new MBE chip is £5900 in vat. The crank is 1800 + VAT of that £5900.00
TVR must know the fix to the cam and followers, I cant for one minute think they haven't worked it out, they had the origional engine designs. In the Red Rose conversion the head is reworked, this is £400 of the cost, and in that £5900, you get 6 new injectors too.
SO you get a brand new engine for just under 6k from power, all new components, except block and the amount of time spent on the reworked head, I cannot put down to just gas flowing, or bigger valves...
Mr F
Interesting, but why would one need all that work doing, if the main problem area is only in the heads? (well apart from going from 3.6 to 4)
What warranty comes with this job from TVR Power?
Ash, my comparison was that if you want all new components, and the 4.0 upgrade, it is £6k inc vat. There is alot of money, mainly labour, on the head, which makes me think they are improving the design.
Unless the actual work done for the money is listed for people to see, like Power have done, no one is going to make an insightfull assessment to justify the cost. If TVR power have not problems with listing the bits and bods, why cant Craft???
As far as I am aware, this comes with 12months warrenty
Just a thought, no provacation intended
Mr F
>> Edited by Mr Freefall on Friday 27th May 19:25
Mr Freefall said:
Unless the actual work done for the money is listed for people to see, like Power have done, no one is going to make an insightfull assessment to justify the cost. If TVR power have not problems with listing the bits and bods, why cant Craft???
As far as I am aware, this comes with 12months warrenty
Just a thought, no provacation intended
Doesnt affect me either way, so dont worry, not provoked F. I'm just interested in anything TVR, call me a 'info sponge' if you want, one day I'll write the whole story and publish it
Anyway, whats interesting is that Al Mellings is working with Autocraft, and I think due to intellectual rights etc, the original design belongs to MCD, TVR reworked the head design, the two head designs are very different.
I dont think Autocraft/TVRCraft are going to release exactly what work it is due to legal and competitive restrictions, but the extendable warranty points towards a sure fix, especially if Al Mellings is behind it all. Thats how I'm seeing it.
After all, Al Mellings did make the AJPV8, and even with the adapated 2VPC head design which Al Mellings did for TVR himself too, the engine was/is awesome. A pity TVR never stuck to Mellings original 4VPC design, us Cerbie owners would have so much more flexibility with tuning options.
Rememeber, the famous Al Mellings is the designer, TVR was just the customer, and due to certain legal reasons the design was altered, I believe there are some archived posts in relation to this on this forum.
Just out of interest, how many TVR/TVR Power engine rebuilds have gone past the 10k threshold without any mishaps out there? Wasnt there a few posts on here claiming a second rebuild took place within a few thousand miles with TVR and TVR Power? and some even claiming that after a rebuild their engine went puff after 300 odd miles????
Would be really nice if TVR accepted the blame, I've seen so many hurt mentally and financially due to TVR's stubborn ignorance.
I did a search for the words 'oil noise' in this forum and the number of posts relating to engine rebuild required was daunting! And I wander how many hundreds out there who dont use pistonheads there are and the crap they had to go through.
Well they reckon the problems are sorted now. Yeah and what about the 4000+ existing speed 6 owners out there? From what I understand, just changing the components is not enough, serious head-work has to be done to bring the design back in-line with the original specification to give back the reliability the engine deserved in the first place
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