Feedback please...
Discussion
I hired a 4.0 Tuscan for a week a while back and am seriously besotted. I'm thinking seriously about trying to pick one up second hand but I have a few reservations that I hope some helpful Tuscan owners could offer some feedback on...
1. Heat soak. The one I hired didn't have A/C and while I would never seriously consider buying one without it, I don't have any experience with how well the air-con can deal with the intense heat generated by the engine on long trips. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Also, does anyone have any experience with the shifter getting too hot to handle and are there any clever solutions?
2. Clutch weight. I've driven cars with very heavy clutches before so it isn't really a problem but if there was a way to lighten it up a bit, I'd be very interested. Anyone know anything about this? I took a test drive in a Tamora and the clutch seemed much lighter. Is it the difference between the 3.6 and the 4.0 engine? On a related note, anyone know the bore and stroke of the two engines?
3. Cooling system. Anyone have any experience with how this car behaves in hot weather and traffic with the air-con going full blast? Can the cooling system keep up? If not, are there upgrades (e.g. radiator or cooling fans) available?
4. Performance upgrades. Not that there's anything wrong with the stock vehicles, but I found myself thinking that the 97.5 bhp/liter that the Speed Six engine delivers is actually somewhat conservative compared to the 120 bhp/liter delivered by the Honda S2000, the 136 bhp/liter delivered by the Lotus Esprit S4s (or, as long as we're going in this direction, the 150+bhp/liter from the Jaguar XJ220 or Bugatti EB110). It seems to me that it should be fairly easy to extract another 50-100bhp from the Speed Six without losing much user-friendliness or engine durability.
1. Heat soak. The one I hired didn't have A/C and while I would never seriously consider buying one without it, I don't have any experience with how well the air-con can deal with the intense heat generated by the engine on long trips. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Also, does anyone have any experience with the shifter getting too hot to handle and are there any clever solutions?
2. Clutch weight. I've driven cars with very heavy clutches before so it isn't really a problem but if there was a way to lighten it up a bit, I'd be very interested. Anyone know anything about this? I took a test drive in a Tamora and the clutch seemed much lighter. Is it the difference between the 3.6 and the 4.0 engine? On a related note, anyone know the bore and stroke of the two engines?
3. Cooling system. Anyone have any experience with how this car behaves in hot weather and traffic with the air-con going full blast? Can the cooling system keep up? If not, are there upgrades (e.g. radiator or cooling fans) available?
4. Performance upgrades. Not that there's anything wrong with the stock vehicles, but I found myself thinking that the 97.5 bhp/liter that the Speed Six engine delivers is actually somewhat conservative compared to the 120 bhp/liter delivered by the Honda S2000, the 136 bhp/liter delivered by the Lotus Esprit S4s (or, as long as we're going in this direction, the 150+bhp/liter from the Jaguar XJ220 or Bugatti EB110). It seems to me that it should be fairly easy to extract another 50-100bhp from the Speed Six without losing much user-friendliness or engine durability.
1. Early gear levers weren't heat shielded, but this was soon fixed and retro fitted so shouldn't get too hot. However I find the metal gets hotter from direct sunlight than through heat soak...
2. I find the clutch lighter than in my old Chimaera so can't complain.
3. My aircon is able to keep up with the heatsoak in stop start traffic, keeping the cabin nicely cool. However the aircon does have to do a lot of work to get rid of heat from already hot parts of the transmission tunnel before cooling down the cabin on a hot day when turning it on. It's also noticeably colder when on the move, but then its' competing with less heat soak.
Basically give it a bit of time to get going and and it should keep the cabin cool. Don't expect Eurobox type aircon where the air is immediately cold... it's got a lot more work to do.
4. Don't mention 'durability' in reference to the Speed 6 engine. Mine has been fine and not required a rebuild, but people have suffered and are understandly annoyed about the current level of durability in the engine, let alone after further tuning!
2. I find the clutch lighter than in my old Chimaera so can't complain.
3. My aircon is able to keep up with the heatsoak in stop start traffic, keeping the cabin nicely cool. However the aircon does have to do a lot of work to get rid of heat from already hot parts of the transmission tunnel before cooling down the cabin on a hot day when turning it on. It's also noticeably colder when on the move, but then its' competing with less heat soak.
Basically give it a bit of time to get going and and it should keep the cabin cool. Don't expect Eurobox type aircon where the air is immediately cold... it's got a lot more work to do.
4. Don't mention 'durability' in reference to the Speed 6 engine. Mine has been fine and not required a rebuild, but people have suffered and are understandly annoyed about the current level of durability in the engine, let alone after further tuning!
bertie said: Unles I'm very much mistaken the Esprit S4 engine is also a turbo, and they go pop more often than a well known breakfast cereal.
Based on what I've read and heard from people who have owned them... if they're properly cared for and regularly driven, the 2.2l Lotus turbo unit should be good for 80k-100k before needing a rebuild. Not exactly Merc-level longevity but pretty respectable.
As for the Speed Six's widely-reputed fragility, apart from problems caused by defective components (and it seems that TVR does learn from these incidents if not as quickly as some of us think they should), are probably related to ignorance and abuse.
In other words, not every TVR owner knows how to care for their cars like the people here - i.e. running the engine in properly and understanding the importance of letting it warm up before exercising it.
phil1 said: 1. Early gear levers weren't heat shielded, but this was soon fixed and retro fitted so shouldn't get too hot. However I find the metal gets hotter from direct sunlight than through heat soak...
2. I find the clutch lighter than in my old Chimaera so can't complain.
3. My aircon is able to keep up with the heatsoak in stop start traffic, keeping the cabin nicely cool. However the aircon does have to do a lot of work to get rid of heat from already hot parts of the transmission tunnel before cooling down the cabin on a hot day when turning it on. It's also noticeably colder when on the move, but then its' competing with less heat soak.
Basically give it a bit of time to get going and and it should keep the cabin cool. Don't expect Eurobox type aircon where the air is immediately cold... it's got a lot more work to do.
4. Don't mention 'durability' in reference to the Speed 6 engine. Mine has been fine and not required a rebuild, but people have suffered and are understandly annoyed about the current level of durability in the engine, let alone after further tuning!
Thanks for the info.
A couple of follow-up questions if I may...
1. Is there any way to tell if the retrofit has been done on an older car?
3. Have you ever had your engine overheat in traffic? Have you ever driven the car on a hot day in traffic? Any problems with overheating?
If you get one soon then before you worry about the air-con you will probably have to contend with the Tuscans ability to resemble a sieve, particularly around the area where the bottom front of the door windows meet the windscreen seal surround.
I would advise you (and any other potential purchasers) to also view when it is raining to check for leaks.
Paul
I would advise you (and any other potential purchasers) to also view when it is raining to check for leaks.
Paul
"3. Cooling system. Anyone have any experience with how this car behaves in hot weather and traffic with the air-con going full blast? Can the cooling system keep up? If not, are there upgrades (e.g. radiator or cooling fans) available?"
You need to speak to Luca Brazzi - or preferably his wife.... (light blue touch paper and retire....)
He he He
Neal
2. Clutch weight. I've driven cars with very heavy clutches before so it isn't really a problem but if there was a way to lighten it up a bit, I'd be very interested. Anyone know anything about this? I took a test drive in a Tamora and the clutch seemed much lighter. Is it the difference between the 3.6 and the 4.0 engine? On a related note, anyone know the bore and stroke of the two engines?
Seem to remember reading the Tamora is a single plate whereas the others are twin plate and therefore heavier...
Graham
[quote
Seem to remember reading the Tamora is a single plate whereas the others are twin plate and therefore heavier...
Graham
Isn't the reason for having a twin plate clutch that you can have both smaller diameter adn lower spring force as the friction is distibuted over twice the area and therefore make a twin plate much lighter action than one large single plate?
In any case I think the Tuscan and Tamora are the same.
Seem to remember reading the Tamora is a single plate whereas the others are twin plate and therefore heavier...
Graham
Isn't the reason for having a twin plate clutch that you can have both smaller diameter adn lower spring force as the friction is distibuted over twice the area and therefore make a twin plate much lighter action than one large single plate?
In any case I think the Tuscan and Tamora are the same.
JonGwynne said:
Thanks for the info.
A couple of follow-up questions if I may...
1. Is there any way to tell if the retrofit has been done on an older car?
3. Have you ever had your engine overheat in traffic? Have you ever driven the car on a hot day in traffic? Any problems with overheating?
Hi Jon,
I'm not aware of anyway of telling whether the heat shield has been retro fitted (beside asking), but it's only the very earliest that didn't get them as standard. My Oct 2000 Tuscan had the shield as standard, and I'm fairly sure not that many tens of cars were built before I got mine.
I've sat in stationary red hot traffic a number of times and been comfortable enough. The cabin isn't cold, but is bearable. I've had no overheating problems at all in over 2 years and 20k miles. It's a pleasant change from my previous Chimaera which suffered quite badly with overheating!
My current gripe is tyres. Time for yet another ring round to replace another pair.
bertie said: [quote
Seem to remember reading the Tamora is a single plate whereas the others are twin plate and therefore heavier...
Graham
Isn't the reason for having a twin plate clutch that you can have both smaller diameter adn lower spring force as the friction is distibuted over twice the area and therefore make a twin plate much lighter action than one large single plate?
In any case I think the Tuscan and Tamora are the same.
Just dug out the article from EVO...
"It's a less physical car too. Thanks to the 3.6litre engines relative lack of torque, the Tamora has been fitted with a single-plate, pull-type clutch for lighter pedal effort, rather than the stronger twin-plate, push type clutches fitted to all other TVR's. Mighty calf muscles are no longer required."
However not sure how true this is as some early Tamora's have been fitted with the 4.0litre engine.
Graham
It seems to me that it should be fairly easy to extract another 50-100bhp from the Speed Six without losing much user-friendliness or engine durability.
Errr no.
Besides, looking at BHP per tonne (the figure that really matters) the Tuscan annihlates most real world opposition. Are you saying the Tuscan wasn't fast enough?
Extracting more BHP from the speed six engine has been covered elsewhere so a quick search of the threads should yield results, but in short it's not really possible and gets expensive very quickly. So I'm led to believe.
Graham B said:
bertie said:
Isn't the reason for having a twin plate clutch that you can have both smaller diameter adn lower spring force as the friction is distibuted over twice the area and therefore make a twin plate much lighter action than one large single plate?
In any case I think the Tuscan and Tamora are the same.
Just dug out the article from EVO...
"It's a less physical car too. Thanks to the 3.6litre engines relative lack of torque, the Tamora has been fitted with a single-plate, pull-type clutch for lighter pedal effort, rather than the stronger twin-plate, push type clutches fitted to all other TVR's. Mighty calf muscles are no longer required."
However not sure how true this is as some early Tamora's have been fitted with the 4.0litre engine.
Graham
I think they were refering to the differance compared to the Rover V8 cars.
I'd be most suprised if there are two types of clutch used on the speed 6 engines, but I could be wrong.
Hang on, to quote the Tamora spec from TVRs website:-
" Driveline
Rear wheel drive. Limited slip differential 5 speed manual gearbox with hydraulically operated twin plate clutch. "
Or you could tell us?
Ask Christopher Neil why when given the ultimatum by Lotus of being a solus dealer or not having the Lotus franchise they told Lotus to stick it and became a solus TVR franchiase?
My Elise Sport 160 is a bag-o-bolts comapred to my Tuscan. I've never known a worse bit of engine mapping in my life!
By the way, I'm assuming that your last cryptic message ws trying to say that TVRs were worse built or more trouble than Lotuses, forgive me if I'm wrong.
>> Edited by bertie on Friday 18th October 23:59
Ask Christopher Neil why when given the ultimatum by Lotus of being a solus dealer or not having the Lotus franchise they told Lotus to stick it and became a solus TVR franchiase?
My Elise Sport 160 is a bag-o-bolts comapred to my Tuscan. I've never known a worse bit of engine mapping in my life!
By the way, I'm assuming that your last cryptic message ws trying to say that TVRs were worse built or more trouble than Lotuses, forgive me if I'm wrong.
>> Edited by bertie on Friday 18th October 23:59
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