Discussion
Claire, Joolz and YAHOO interesting reading.
I have had 4 rebuilds in 13 months, 3 due to dodgy finger followers on speed six cerbera. (sorry Tuscan people for posting here, but asme engine)
The latest using the words of Paul the service manager at TVR was because the camshaft was not polished properly by the supplier which meant it did not rotate properly, which broke the half bearing and knackered the chains.
Now speaking from experience rather than as a mechanic 'which I am not' the problem does not lie with the engine design, oil or how you run it in, it depends on if the quality of the materials used in it's production are more important. The engine when it has run has been perfect and sounded very good (other than the normal critisism of a bit rattly) it is these persistent problems with the components which are making the problems for me.
However Paul in servicing has gone the whole nine yards to sort out each and everyone of my problems without any fuss and is apologetic and sympaphises with my woes, which may not resolve the problem but goes along way to ease my frustraion.
Now I come to the OIL, I quizzed Paul on this and he recommends using the Mobil, therefore who better to know? I takes claires point about magnetec, but my question is if it sticks to the engine as is described you will never be able to do a pure oil change? and the debris from the rebuild will stick to the oil? am I wrong?
I have had 4 rebuilds in 13 months, 3 due to dodgy finger followers on speed six cerbera. (sorry Tuscan people for posting here, but asme engine)
The latest using the words of Paul the service manager at TVR was because the camshaft was not polished properly by the supplier which meant it did not rotate properly, which broke the half bearing and knackered the chains.
Now speaking from experience rather than as a mechanic 'which I am not' the problem does not lie with the engine design, oil or how you run it in, it depends on if the quality of the materials used in it's production are more important. The engine when it has run has been perfect and sounded very good (other than the normal critisism of a bit rattly) it is these persistent problems with the components which are making the problems for me.
However Paul in servicing has gone the whole nine yards to sort out each and everyone of my problems without any fuss and is apologetic and sympaphises with my woes, which may not resolve the problem but goes along way to ease my frustraion.
Now I come to the OIL, I quizzed Paul on this and he recommends using the Mobil, therefore who better to know? I takes claires point about magnetec, but my question is if it sticks to the engine as is described you will never be able to do a pure oil change? and the debris from the rebuild will stick to the oil? am I wrong?
Hi Claire, great reply - let me in on your secret though please. I've never known a SP6 engine go for 12k without closing the valve clearances, many cars don't last to 6k before the gaps close enough to affect slow speed running and tickover speed, the cynic in me thinks this is the reason behind the factory increasing the clearances from the first engines 6/8 thou to 8/10 thou .. to prolong the life of the slow speed running and idle.Please correct me if this is in any way wrong or misleading.
Yahoo .. I'll lay off him when he starts talking sense. I hate his sweeping generalisations about other dealers, you just have to visit the factory and see all the cars with no engines to realise there's more to this than a servicing issue - if it's really a dealer problem TVR should have everyone back to the factory for an intensive training course quick sharp. When I was at HHC we had NO factory training at all so you are alrady one up on me .. maybe that's what makes the diference? or maybe my 8thou isn't the same as the factory's??
best wishes and keep up the good work.
Joolz.
Yahoo .. I'll lay off him when he starts talking sense. I hate his sweeping generalisations about other dealers, you just have to visit the factory and see all the cars with no engines to realise there's more to this than a servicing issue - if it's really a dealer problem TVR should have everyone back to the factory for an intensive training course quick sharp. When I was at HHC we had NO factory training at all so you are alrady one up on me .. maybe that's what makes the diference? or maybe my 8thou isn't the same as the factory's??
best wishes and keep up the good work.
Joolz.
claire_scot said:
1. Mobil 1 is really too thin an oil for this engine. When hot it is like water! You will find the car uses a lot more oil as well.
2. Castrol Mag protects the engine much better, as its thicker and also helps stop engine wear.
Most engine wear happens when you first start your car, as it takes time for the oil to get round the whole of the engine. Magnatec because it is thicker tends to cling to components such as camshafts etc.. so there is always oil at the top of the engine.
Mobil 1 tends to run back down into the bottom of the engine more quickly because it is thinner.
By all means you can use Castrol RS, but it is more expensive and is more a racing oil.(But the best!)
Also if you want to stick to Mobil, try the thicker version, Mobil 1 Motorsport.
Can not explained it better
Think Claire just solved the problem with oils.
Cheers,Claire!
Just a tip.
When the engine is cold, ALWAYS wait to warm up and let the oils to reach their "working" temperature and to circulate inside the engine.
THEN you can stick the "Petal to the Metal"
ByronTVR
>> Edited by ByronTVR on Saturday 16th November 21:31
My 2p.
Castrol R is a 2 stroke oil which is why it is 'the smell of motorsport', it is designed to be burned off along with the petrol. NOT recommended for 4 stroke engines.
An earlier post suggested that Castrol RS 0w40 would be as thin as mobil 1 0w40. This is correct, it would offer no more protection than any other 0w40 oil. Castrol RS 10w60 is probably a better bet (in this country although probably not in very cold countries). I wouldn't use Castrol Magnatec because it a semi-synthetic oil and inferior to Castrol RS (or maybe because I can't stand this magnetic oil b*llocks). A few extra quid on oil is nothing compared to the cost and inconvenience of an engine rebuild.
Don't forget an oil does more than lubricate, it also helps transfer heat (amongst other things) away from the combustion chamber which a very thick oil will be cr*p at doing. As with everything else oil 'design' is a compromise.
Rob.
Castrol R is a 2 stroke oil which is why it is 'the smell of motorsport', it is designed to be burned off along with the petrol. NOT recommended for 4 stroke engines.
An earlier post suggested that Castrol RS 0w40 would be as thin as mobil 1 0w40. This is correct, it would offer no more protection than any other 0w40 oil. Castrol RS 10w60 is probably a better bet (in this country although probably not in very cold countries). I wouldn't use Castrol Magnatec because it a semi-synthetic oil and inferior to Castrol RS (or maybe because I can't stand this magnetic oil b*llocks). A few extra quid on oil is nothing compared to the cost and inconvenience of an engine rebuild.
Don't forget an oil does more than lubricate, it also helps transfer heat (amongst other things) away from the combustion chamber which a very thick oil will be cr*p at doing. As with everything else oil 'design' is a compromise.
Rob.
Ho hum.
Out of interest Jools, my car went all the way through to 11k with no problems regarding slow idling. Don't know if they did an adjustment without me knowing at the 6k service, but i doubt it.
Admittedly, just before the camshaft started rattling away, the idle was starting to hover around the 700rpm mark rather than the 800/900 as it had been up til then. But it was on 11600 miles, so falls within the expected service schedule..
Don't believe my problems were owner inflicted. Car was looked after. Yes, I drive the car hard, but it was always after the engine was fully up to temperature...
-andy-
Out of interest Jools, my car went all the way through to 11k with no problems regarding slow idling. Don't know if they did an adjustment without me knowing at the 6k service, but i doubt it.
Admittedly, just before the camshaft started rattling away, the idle was starting to hover around the 700rpm mark rather than the 800/900 as it had been up til then. But it was on 11600 miles, so falls within the expected service schedule..
Don't believe my problems were owner inflicted. Car was looked after. Yes, I drive the car hard, but it was always after the engine was fully up to temperature...
-andy-
ByronTVR said: Andy, maybe it was "Manufacturing Material Failure"
So the camshaft come into 2 pieces...
Happened on bike engine (e.g. KTM Duke) after 1000Km...the piston come into 2 pieces
So we may assume that the material was defective of the camshaft???
But although it can be the valve clearance...everything is possible
Anyhow , the engine oil must be changed every a certain miles, depending on the oil type.
But on these engines (speed6) , i think that is better to use high quality motor oil , propably full synthetic.
ByronTVR
"Manufacturing Material Failure" ???
ByronTVR
Ston said: I was told than you should never mix oils...
Especially of different weight, is that right?
I am tempted to go get my oil changed to Castrol magnetec tomorrow, I understand the argument for it, but the designer of the engine and the factory recommend Mobil 1 :/
I guess you get a blend of oil if you mix, but you can't help this on the SP6 anyway since you only get to change half the oil in the engine - you only drain what's in the main tank and what's in the filter .. a source told me there's something like 12/13 litres of oil in total in that engine / oil cooler / oil lines / etc yet you can only drain about 6 litres out ..
VENOM500 said: Bin the "Junk Design" speed 6 and fit a V8 Rover,100,000 miles before a major rebuild,problem solved!This sp6 thing just runs and runs,yet you TVR boys still seem to keep buying the things?You must be Mad.I,ll go back to my own corner now .
yeah we're mad .. teehee.
thing about the SP6 engine is that it "feels" unburstable when you drive it - rumours of it revving to 9k plus are floating around (haven't tried that myself) and it gives great power when on song (in some cases more than TVR say it gives, very rare in TVR land).
yeah we're mad .. teehee.
thing about the SP6 engine is that it "feels" unburstable when you drive it - rumours of it revving to 9k plus are floating around (haven't tried that myself) and it gives great power when on song (in some cases more than TVR say it gives, very rare in TVR land).
Interesting Joolz, John R told me that snapped valves are caused by over revving the engine, missing a gear or changing down too many in one hit and causing the engine to rev to 9k - at which point valves and pistons meet up with the innevitable snapping sound.
Sort of goes against the race engines revving over 9k that I have heard elsewhere as well - maybe they have a different cam profile or piston shape to stop this coming together?
MB.
Indeed Rev-erend is correct. A rev limiting device is only effective when you are accelerating, if you 'wrong slot' going down the box it is quite possible to overspeed the engine. We have seen on occasion figures such as 9,250 rpm recorded in the ECU for 0.6 of a second when we have 'interrogated' the logging. Not many roadgoing large capacity engines that will stand such treatment.
Well, i think there is a "crystal" on the ECU of the car that arranges the rev limiter.These crystals are "working" on a certain frequency (e.g. 22.000 Hz or Mhz whatever), if you change this crystal with another with different frequency (they are very cheap though...) you can change the rev limiter to higher or lower revs.But i'm not absolute sure about that.One guy did it on a Nissan Sunny 2.0lt with the normal ECU.
Except offcourse if you have a full adjustable ECU!
ByronTVR
Except offcourse if you have a full adjustable ECU
! ByronTVR
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