RE: 80mph limit will cost £1bn say campaigners

[mybrainhurts]

ThePlanner said:

mybrainhurts said:

bigdog3 said:

mybrainhurts said:

ThePlanner said:

There is no such thing as an accident, there is always someone to blame.

Let's call bks on that propaganda once again.

If it's not an accident, it's "a deliberate".

Which is rarer than BRAKE's credibility.

Absolutely right on the first point - this propaganda is bks.

Unfortunately not on the second point. BRAKE are clever and manipulative. They have credibility with the general public which makes them very dangerous. After all, who could be against saving even one child's life (which is more emotive bks) ? ...

Yes, bad choice of word. Delete credible, insert credentials.

If you cause a crash then it's not an accident in my opinion. You are in control of the vehicle and your actions cause the car to crash then there is no accident.

If it's not an accident, it's intentional. But it's not, is it? So it's an accident.

You've fallen for bullst spouted by ACPO.

[bigdog3]

ThePlanner said:

bigdog3 said:

Just like severing a limb with the chain saw then? ...

If you were in full control then it wouldn't happen.

So according to that logic, it's impossible to have an accident with a chain saw... Clarifies validity of your argument rather well...

[fluffnik]

ThePlanner said:

If you were in full control then it wouldn't happen.

You never are...

• a tree topples
• a bit falls off a plane
• a passing vehicle throws up a rock
• etc
• etc
• etc

[ThePlanner]

mybrainhurts said:

If it's not an accident, it's intentional. But it's not, is it? So it's an accident.

You've fallen for bullst spouted by ACPO.

Someone is always to blame and in most cases all accidents can be prevented. I have not fallen for any bullst. Just years of looking at accident investigation reports and STATS19 data.

Accidents are either down to human error, or mis-judgement (risk taking). Some times that causes a collision. Or worse case mechanical failure. All collisions can be prevented all road users need to understand that From pedestrians to HGVs.

[ThePlanner]

fluffnik said:

ThePlanner said:

If you were in full control then it wouldn't happen.

You never are...

• a tree topples
• a bit falls off a plane
• a passing vehicle throws up a rock
• etc
• etc
• etc

You have made a discussion based on the risks that you may not be in full control and the worse can happen. So in effect it is your discision to take those risks, no one has forced you, but there is a small chance you could loose a finger etc.

Edited by ThePlanner on Wednesday 23 May 23:51

[mybrainhurts]

ThePlanner said:

mybrainhurts said:

If it's not an accident, it's intentional. But it's not, is it? So it's an accident.

You've fallen for bullst spouted by ACPO.

Someone is always to blame and in most cases all accidents can be prevented. I have not fallen for any bullst. Just years of looking at accident investigation reports and STATS19 data.

Accidents are either down to human error, or mis-judgement (risk taking). Some times that causes a collision. Or worse case mechanical failure. All collisions can be prevented all road users need to understand that From pedestrians to HGVs.

Just as I suspected. Brainwashed by Brunstrom.

Your problem is English comprehension...

Here's the definition of accident...

OED said:

noun
an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury

So, unless it's deliberate, any collision is an accident.

Blame is another issue, but you're not entirely right there...

Tree falls on car, kills driver....

Blame...?

[ThePlanner]

mybrainhurts said:

So, unless it's deliberate, any collision is an accident.

Blame is another issue, but you're not entirely right there...

Tree falls on car, kills driver....

Blame...?

Drink driver kills a loved one? Accident?
Brake failure due to no maintainence? Accident?

They are both deliberate acts make by individuals, they are not accidents.

The OED definition is the common understanding/ interpretation of the words current use.
The who thing is not about blame, it's about people making a decision before there action, if that decision causes a collision it is not an accident.

Edited by ThePlanner on Thursday 24th May 00:07

[Chas-Chiro]

ThePlanner said:

mybrainhurts said:

So, unless it's deliberate, any collision is an accident.

Blame is another issue, but you're not entirely right there...

Tree falls on car, kills driver....

Blame...?

Drink driver kills a loved one? Accident?
Brake failure due to no maintainence? Accident?

They are both deliberate acts make by individuals, they are not accidents.

The OED definition is the common understanding/ interpretation of the words current use.
The who thing is not about blame, it's about people making a decision before there action, if that discussion causes a collision it is not an accident.

I just hate people who cannot get grammar correct when ranting about a non-valid point. Their action not there action. Who on earth is going to take you seriously when you cannot even acknowledge the meaning of a word in the dictionary? If you are meaning something else then use the correct word and improve on your own understanding of the English language.

Dung!

An accident is an accident - blame is another matter and nothing to do with accidents. Stop trying to mix the two up to prove your argument.

Theoretical point. It rains and your house gets flooded, so it was your deliberate fault but you still claim on the insurance as an accident. You won't say it was deliberate because the insurance will not pay out. But who was the person that made the deliberate act? He who built it? He who allowed planning permission? He who inspected it to the current standards? He who paid insurance? The insurance company for giving cover? Now I am asking where the blame lies, not whether it was an accident. In fact blame lies with all. Everyone involved took some calculated risk in the name of PROFIT right from land developer, planning officer to current resident. The fact that it happened was an accident and not intentional that it should rain and flood your house does not come into looking at blame. It's exactly the same with driving. Everyone is responsible from the pedestrian to the manufacturers. The driver is the one that always gets financially hit though.

[bigdog3]

ThePlanner said:

They are both deliberate acts made by individuals, they are not accidents.

Drink driver kills a loved one? Accident?

Must have sat in the pub drinking that extra pint, thinking tonight I will kill my girlfriend? No that's still an accident by an irresponsible driver.

ThePlanner said:

Brake failure due to no maintainence? Accident?

Deliberate strategy of poor maintenance knowing that brake failure will cause a collision? No that's still an accident caused by negligence.


Take a look around your home and property. Is everything in perfect order? Could a tile become detached from the roof hitting the postman on the head? Is all your wiring absolutely sound? Could a fence blow over in high winds? By your definition, these would not be accidents.

[Codswallop]

Al 450 said:

Codswallop, do it now!

Huh? What am I meant to be doing again?

Oh the speed limit - we want 80mph limits now

[whipround]

why not leave your comments on the no to 80 website. http://noto80.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/speaking-up...

[andyps]

ThePlanner said:

Drink driver kills a loved one? Accident?
Brake failure due to no maintainence? Accident?

They are both deliberate acts make by individuals, they are not accidents.

The OED definition is the common understanding/ interpretation of the words current use.
The who thing is not about blame, it's about people making a decision before there action, if that decision causes a collision it is not an accident.

Edited by ThePlanner on Thursday 24th May 00:07

What about brake failure despite excellent maintenance? Parts fail for many reasons.

I guess with a name like ThePlanner and your comments on here everything in your life is planned to absolute precision to take away any risk whatsoever. It implies you are an absolute bundle of fun, I would invite you for a drink but just getting to the pub must be a nightmare, let alone the consequences of what could happen whilst there and afterwards

[ThePlanner]

andyps said:

ThePlanner said:

Drink driver kills a loved one? Accident?
Brake failure due to no maintainence? Accident?

They are both deliberate acts make by individuals, they are not accidents.

The OED definition is the common understanding/ interpretation of the words current use.
The who thing is not about blame, it's about people making a decision before there action, if that decision causes a collision it is not an accident.

Edited by ThePlanner on Thursday 24th May 00:07

What about brake failure despite excellent maintenance? Parts fail for many reasons.

I guess with a name like ThePlanner and your comments on here everything in your life is planned to absolute precision to take away any risk whatsoever. It implies you are an absolute bundle of fun, I would invite you for a drink but just getting to the pub must be a nightmare, let alone the consequences of what could happen whilst there and afterwards

Only a small percentage of accidents can be called accidents. Many are cause by human error and could have been prevented.

You could be further away from the truth about me. I have put the posts up based on my profession as an engineer that works in the transport (mainly Highway). Having spent 3 years working with accident investigation teams and on accident reconstruction modelling. I am now working as a specialist advisor to reduce accident severity on rural roads where local authorities have designed sub standard roads.

[bigdog3]

ThePlanner said:

Only a small percentage of accidents can be called accidents.

Is this The Mother of All Oxymorons ?...

[odyssey2200]

A man from RoSPA has just exploded.






but not on purpose, it was an accident

[bigdog3]

There are two posts on this thread which make very positive suggestions. I have signed the petition and will comment on the No to 80 website, after a bit more research and thought.

Could others who feel enraged by BRAKE do likewise please?

nb There are no comments on that website yet, so several Yes to 80 posts could provoke interesting responses from our BRAKE friends ...

jamespink said:

IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS DEBATE, YOU CAN SIGN THIS PETITION: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/3946 It will ask for your details and will need a separate confirmation; however if all the contributors to this thread signed it, there would be 300+ signatories rather than x amount of hot air...

whipround said:

why not leave your comments on the no to 80 website. http://noto80.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/speaking-up...

[durbster]

ThePlanner said:

Only a small percentage of accidents can be called accidents. Many are cause by human error and could have been prevented.

That's an interesting interpretation of the word 'accident' there.

[bigdog3]

durbster said:

ThePlanner said:

Only a small percentage of accidents can be called accidents. Many are cause by human error and could have been prevented.

That's an interesting interpretation of the word 'accident' there.

Many people are caused by human error and could have been prevented ...

[Vipers]

Chas-Chiro said:

ThePlanner said:

mybrainhurts said:

So, unless it's deliberate, any collision is an accident.

Blame is another issue, but you're not entirely right there...

Tree falls on car, kills driver....

Blame...?

Drink driver kills a loved one? Accident?
Brake failure due to no maintainence? Accident?

They are both deliberate acts make by individuals, they are not accidents.

The OED definition is the common understanding/ interpretation of the words current use.
The who thing is not about blame, it's about people making a decision before there action, if that discussion causes a collision it is not an accident.

I just hate people who cannot get grammar correct when ranting about a non-valid point. Their action not there action. Who on earth is going to take you seriously when you cannot even acknowledge the meaning of a word in the dictionary? If you are meaning something else then use the correct word and improve on your own understanding of the English language.

Dung!

An accident is an accident - blame is another matter and nothing to do with accidents. Stop trying to mix the two up to prove your argument.

Theoretical point. It rains and your house gets flooded, so it was your deliberate fault but you still claim on the insurance as an accident. You won't say it was deliberate because the insurance will not pay out. But who was the person that made the deliberate act? He who built it? He who allowed planning permission? He who inspected it to the current standards? He who paid insurance? The insurance company for giving cover? Now I am asking where the blame lies, not whether it was an accident. In fact blame lies with all. Everyone involved took some calculated risk in the name of PROFIT right from land developer, planning officer to current resident. The fact that it happened was an accident and not intentional that it should rain and flood your house does not come into looking at blame. It's exactly the same with driving. Everyone is responsible from the pedestrian to the manufacturers. The driver is the one that always gets financially hit though.

Wouldn't it be nice if this site had a built in spelling checker, my spelling is crap, but it doesn't matter, its the content of the post is that matters

[ThePlanner]

Vipers said:

Wouldn't it be nice if this site had a built in spelling checker, my spelling is crap, but it doesn't matter, its the content of the post is that matters

Would that be nice.. Most of the posts on here are bks anyway