The cloudy future of the German Car industry gets worse..
Discussion
If you look at the rollout plans of just about any manufacturer there is a significant investment in EVs and we are seeing some of the major ICE power plants disappearing in addition to relentless new environmental rules, city centres with pollution regulations and so on. I would look to Kia/Hyundai becoming a major player in the area.
I say the above as someone who enjoys ICE cars and just bought an new Cayenne GTS with a V8 in it. Yet, I am aware that we are coming to the end of the line. Investors chided Ferrari for not having an EV strategy which let to a change of CEO.
Germany has a challenge, no doubt- it is not just in the pure EV aspect but in electronics and infotainment as a whole. I have never found German cars to have well designed simple to use systems. The engineering/performance are the strengths. I think there will be formidable competition. The current political contretemps will put China back a few years but they were set to enter the EV market in the West.
So Germany can certainly build performance cars. I spent a few days with a Taycan Turbo S, quite astonishing performance and has proper Porsche handling. Yet, one model does not make an industry .
I say the above as someone who enjoys ICE cars and just bought an new Cayenne GTS with a V8 in it. Yet, I am aware that we are coming to the end of the line. Investors chided Ferrari for not having an EV strategy which let to a change of CEO.
Germany has a challenge, no doubt- it is not just in the pure EV aspect but in electronics and infotainment as a whole. I have never found German cars to have well designed simple to use systems. The engineering/performance are the strengths. I think there will be formidable competition. The current political contretemps will put China back a few years but they were set to enter the EV market in the West.
So Germany can certainly build performance cars. I spent a few days with a Taycan Turbo S, quite astonishing performance and has proper Porsche handling. Yet, one model does not make an industry .
Blue62 said:
cardigankid said:
I’d be interested to hear what cars you are enthusiastic about.
I’m a car enthusiast and I do care about the environment. We face a suite of important challenges, including pollution, congestion, public health, education, waste and poverty. Eliminating ICE does not resolve any of those issues. You will note my list does not include Climate Change, which I consider a bogus political construct.
Personally I can’t see much to be enthusiastic about in EV or PHEV. Drove a couple, thought they felt like glorified milk floats, that was it, but I am open to discussion.
I’ve followed this thread with interest and there are many good points, but stating climate change is a political construct is a bridge too far. I don’t want to get into the reasons (because it’s been done to death elsewhere), but the change is real and happening now. I currently own an old 993 and a 17 plate RS6 PE, but I’m beginning to feel like a dinosaur when I’m out and about. More negative comments than I’ve experienced before and a realisation that there is now a clear shift in public opinion. I think the writing is on the wall whatever you think. I’m a car enthusiast and I do care about the environment. We face a suite of important challenges, including pollution, congestion, public health, education, waste and poverty. Eliminating ICE does not resolve any of those issues. You will note my list does not include Climate Change, which I consider a bogus political construct.
Personally I can’t see much to be enthusiastic about in EV or PHEV. Drove a couple, thought they felt like glorified milk floats, that was it, but I am open to discussion.
If you're getting comments, it's going further than public opinion though isn't it?. We're seeing fascism on both governmental and individual levels. We still live in a free country, just about, and you're at liberty to drive whatever the hell you want. To the rabid environmentalists, most of whom haven't got a clue, explain that you'd rather drive a car fuelled by oil than an electric car powered by electricity generated by burning gas or trees. Then tell them to go and f
k themselves.I keep getting told the planet is dying, Climate change to blame. Tosh. Then I drive along a hillside by the Ridgeway in Wiltshire and the place is absolutely spectacular, lush and verdant, never seen a view as green and beautiful. There are places that need cleaning up, without a doubt.
But if the German car industry is in decline and others are in the ascendency that's fine with me.
But if the German car industry is in decline and others are in the ascendency that's fine with me.
wisbech said:
Electric propulsion is objectively better than ICE. Max torque from zero RPM, can have individual motor per wheel, quiet, lower maintenance. There’s a reason that when the energy storage issue is solved, as it has been for trains/ trams, electric motors are used. (Diesel electric or electrified lines)
Heck, the QE aircraft carrier is electric powered.
Er no, it's gas turbine powered and had diesel engines too...Heck, the QE aircraft carrier is electric powered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth-clas...
Bobupndown said:
wisbech said:
Electric propulsion is objectively better than ICE. Max torque from zero RPM, can have individual motor per wheel, quiet, lower maintenance. There’s a reason that when the energy storage issue is solved, as it has been for trains/ trams, electric motors are used. (Diesel electric or electrified lines)
Heck, the QE aircraft carrier is electric powered.
Er no, it's gas turbine powered and had diesel engines too...Heck, the QE aircraft carrier is electric powered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth-clas...
+1
lornemalvo said:
eAyeAddio said:
I just don't get why some people are so opposed to electric cars......... Have you seen the performance figures for the Porsche Taycan?.......... They are astonishing.
An all-electric Taycan is the only car capable of out-performing (0 - 60 mph) my motorbike at sub 3 secs ......
And surely there are no complaints about it's top-speed?........ Even it's range and a battery recharge time of 80% in 20 mins. is perfectly acceptable......
There is no shortage of climate-change deny-ers on this forum and it's time they woke up to the harsh realities of life - the days of petrol / diesel powered cars are finished and the sooner they accept it the better it will be for all.
Saw a a lovely electric Mercedes coupe in Tesco today. Looked it up and the fast charging time was at least 11 hours. No wonder he didn't bother to plug it in. Also, how manay people can afford an electric taycan? An all-electric Taycan is the only car capable of out-performing (0 - 60 mph) my motorbike at sub 3 secs ......
And surely there are no complaints about it's top-speed?........ Even it's range and a battery recharge time of 80% in 20 mins. is perfectly acceptable......
There is no shortage of climate-change deny-ers on this forum and it's time they woke up to the harsh realities of life - the days of petrol / diesel powered cars are finished and the sooner they accept it the better it will be for all.
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