How threatened is JLR?...sounds worrying
Discussion
Early on in this topic, there was comparisons with a British Leyland.
Just remember that the mini brand was Bourne out of BL. 100s of engineers from.longbridge travelling to Gaydon everyday to develop the car they thought would save Longbridge.
And remember that land ROVER was born out of Rover which became part of BL which became part of Rover which ended up through surviving as Land rover (whilst BMW and Ford took some understanding of 4x4 off it before it ended up being packaged with Jaguar
Jaguar, that became part of BL before being part of Rover, before going to Ford, and being joined to JLR.
It's not true that BL didn't survive.
Much of it did. Just owned by different people..
Just remember that the mini brand was Bourne out of BL. 100s of engineers from.longbridge travelling to Gaydon everyday to develop the car they thought would save Longbridge.
And remember that land ROVER was born out of Rover which became part of BL which became part of Rover which ended up through surviving as Land rover (whilst BMW and Ford took some understanding of 4x4 off it before it ended up being packaged with Jaguar
Jaguar, that became part of BL before being part of Rover, before going to Ford, and being joined to JLR.
It's not true that BL didn't survive.
Much of it did. Just owned by different people..
craigjm said:
Pit Pony said:
Jaguar, that became part of BL before being part of Rover, before going to Ford, and being joined to JLR.
Exactly when was Jaguar part of Rover? As an aside, keeping to the BL theme, the X5 was created on the back LR ownership, so the whole of BMWs SUV business is pseudo linked to BL. But then the ubiquitous Rover V8 that was lifted out of Buick had originally, in term of designs, been lifted by the Americans out of BMW in the 1940s reparations
DonkeyApple said:
craigjm said:
Pit Pony said:
Jaguar, that became part of BL before being part of Rover, before going to Ford, and being joined to JLR.
Exactly when was Jaguar part of Rover? As an aside, keeping to the BL theme, the X5 was created on the back LR ownership, so the whole of BMWs SUV business is pseudo linked to BL. But then the ubiquitous Rover V8 that was lifted out of Buick had originally, in term of designs, been lifted by the Americans out of BMW in the 1940s reparations
DonkeyApple said:
craigjm said:
Pit Pony said:
Jaguar, that became part of BL before being part of Rover, before going to Ford, and being joined to JLR.
Exactly when was Jaguar part of Rover? As an aside, keeping to the BL theme, the X5 was created on the back LR ownership, so the whole of BMWs SUV business is pseudo linked to BL. But then the ubiquitous Rover V8 that was lifted out of Buick had originally, in term of designs, been lifted by the Americans out of BMW in the 1940s reparations
craigjm said:
DonkeyApple said:
craigjm said:
Pit Pony said:
Jaguar, that became part of BL before being part of Rover, before going to Ford, and being joined to JLR.
Exactly when was Jaguar part of Rover? As an aside, keeping to the BL theme, the X5 was created on the back LR ownership, so the whole of BMWs SUV business is pseudo linked to BL. But then the ubiquitous Rover V8 that was lifted out of Buick had originally, in term of designs, been lifted by the Americans out of BMW in the 1940s reparations
craigjm said:
Jazzy Jag said:
sapf0 said:
So the old RR & RRS are phasing out, and the new RR has a leaky roof amongst other major problems.
How long before JRL go bust?
Leaky roof?How long before JRL go bust?
Where are you hearing this from?
ettore said:
craigjm said:
Jazzy Jag said:
sapf0 said:
So the old RR & RRS are phasing out, and the new RR has a leaky roof amongst other major problems.
How long before JRL go bust?
Leaky roof?How long before JRL go bust?
Where are you hearing this from?
I have no interest in the cars but their financials do not paint a pretty picture.
Retail unit sales:
FY 2020/21: 439,588
FY 2019/20: 508,659
FY 2018/19: 578,915
Debt:
FY 2020/21: £1.9bn
FY 2019/20: £2.2bn
FY 2018/19: £0.7bn
Revenue:
FY 2020/21: £19.7bn
FY 2019/20: £23.0bn
FY 2018/19: £24.2bn
Fewer cars sold, lower revenue and more debt, but the Annual report shows that they are concentrating more on how they have used less water and electricity in production and cut the greenhouse gas emissions, rather than how they will turn the company around.
https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/investor-relations
Retail unit sales:
FY 2020/21: 439,588
FY 2019/20: 508,659
FY 2018/19: 578,915
Debt:
FY 2020/21: £1.9bn
FY 2019/20: £2.2bn
FY 2018/19: £0.7bn
Revenue:
FY 2020/21: £19.7bn
FY 2019/20: £23.0bn
FY 2018/19: £24.2bn
Fewer cars sold, lower revenue and more debt, but the Annual report shows that they are concentrating more on how they have used less water and electricity in production and cut the greenhouse gas emissions, rather than how they will turn the company around.
https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/investor-relations
NMNeil said:
I have no interest in the cars but their financials do not paint a pretty picture.
Retail unit sales:
FY 2020/21: 439,588
FY 2019/20: 508,659
FY 2018/19: 578,915
Debt:
FY 2020/21: £1.9bn
FY 2019/20: £2.2bn
FY 2018/19: £0.7bn
Revenue:
FY 2020/21: £19.7bn
FY 2019/20: £23.0bn
FY 2018/19: £24.2bn
Fewer cars sold, lower revenue and more debt, but the Annual report shows that they are concentrating more on how they have used less water and electricity in production and cut the greenhouse gas emissions, rather than how they will turn the company around.
https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/investor-relations
It's a very messed up place to work.Retail unit sales:
FY 2020/21: 439,588
FY 2019/20: 508,659
FY 2018/19: 578,915
Debt:
FY 2020/21: £1.9bn
FY 2019/20: £2.2bn
FY 2018/19: £0.7bn
Revenue:
FY 2020/21: £19.7bn
FY 2019/20: £23.0bn
FY 2018/19: £24.2bn
Fewer cars sold, lower revenue and more debt, but the Annual report shows that they are concentrating more on how they have used less water and electricity in production and cut the greenhouse gas emissions, rather than how they will turn the company around.
https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/investor-relations
Lots of deck chair alignment while the ship sinks.
Edited by Jazzy Jag on Wednesday 5th January 21:03
Jazzy Jag said:
NMNeil said:
I have no interest in the cars but their financials do not paint a pretty picture.
Retail unit sales:
FY 2020/21: 439,588
FY 2019/20: 508,659
FY 2018/19: 578,915
Debt:
FY 2020/21: £1.9bn
FY 2019/20: £2.2bn
FY 2018/19: £0.7bn
Revenue:
FY 2020/21: £19.7bn
FY 2019/20: £23.0bn
FY 2018/19: £24.2bn
Fewer cars sold, lower revenue and more debt, but the Annual report shows that they are concentrating more on how they have used less water and electricity in production and cut the greenhouse gas emissions, rather than how they will turn the company around.
https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/investor-relations
It's a very messed up place to work.Retail unit sales:
FY 2020/21: 439,588
FY 2019/20: 508,659
FY 2018/19: 578,915
Debt:
FY 2020/21: £1.9bn
FY 2019/20: £2.2bn
FY 2018/19: £0.7bn
Revenue:
FY 2020/21: £19.7bn
FY 2019/20: £23.0bn
FY 2018/19: £24.2bn
Fewer cars sold, lower revenue and more debt, but the Annual report shows that they are concentrating more on how they have used less water and electricity in production and cut the greenhouse gas emissions, rather than how they will turn the company around.
https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/investor-relations
Lots of deck chair alignment while the ship sinks.
Edited by Jazzy Jag on Wednesday 5th January 21:03
DodgyGeezer said:
TBF though the last 2 years can't have done many car manufacturers many favours
Very true.But to me the greatest reason for the decline is that it's no longer a British company, and Jaguar has always been classed as one of the original luxury British car brands. Unfortunately being sold first to Ford and then to Tata has destroyed the mystique of the Jaguar.
NMNeil said:
Very true.
But to me the greatest reason for the decline is that it's no longer a British company, and Jaguar has always been classed as one of the original luxury British car brands. Unfortunately being sold first to Ford and then to Tata has destroyed the mystique of the Jaguar.
For me (as a former owner of many XJs), and talking about Jaguar specifically, it's a combination of:But to me the greatest reason for the decline is that it's no longer a British company, and Jaguar has always been classed as one of the original luxury British car brands. Unfortunately being sold first to Ford and then to Tata has destroyed the mystique of the Jaguar.
- The saloons are no longer special - they are too close to the German template
- XJ is no more - and that is what I would have been interested in
- Shocking stories around reliability and dealer service - I know that you can read anything you want on the internet, but the number of first-hand accounts, including here on PH, makes it hard to dismiss
I believe that the current plan is to have managed decline of the current models, with new EV-only models arriving in 2025. That is a long time to go...by 2025, I would expect that pretty much all manufacturers will have EVs in the market, and Jaguar will need something really special if they are to survive.
AmitG said:
I believe that the current plan is to have managed decline of the current models, with new EV-only models arriving in 2025. That is a long time to go...by 2025, I would expect that pretty much all manufacturers will have EVs in the market, and Jaguar will need something really special if they are to survive.
The plan is more than that. The plan is total separation of Jaguar and Land Rover and an end to platform sharing and parts sharing. Jaguar will have its own platform and be electric and Land Rover will have two platforms and be ICE, hybrid and electric with a slower move to electric .One should ask themselves why would they do that? The answer is simple. Tata wanted Land Rover. They got Jaguar because of its inter relationship that would have been tough to untangle.
To be fair Tata have been fairly successful with both brands even if the “Jaguar fans” of many years don’t like the modern styling, someone clearly does because they have been selling more of them than ever before, recent covid induced slumps aside. Maybe not in the UK but it doesn’t matter to them where the buyers come from.
The plan is obvious though. Between 2025 and 2028 build a new range of more upmarket electric Jaguars all on their own platform, a volume of around 40000 a year with a decent profit margin, built in their own factory….. and then? Well it doesn’t take a genius….. Jaguar will be under new ownership by 2030 and Tata will have what they wanted… Land Rover
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