How threatened is JLR?...sounds worrying
Discussion
AmitG said:
Question - do people think that PSA would make a serious bid for Jaguar?
I can see the logic. PSA has no "sporting luxury" brand, and have openly said that they would like one. DS is more about comfort than sporty. And if you want a sporting luxury brand, there are not many to choose from. I doubt that FCA would ever sell Maserati or Alfa Romeo. Buying Aston Martin would probably not fit, although their share price must be temptingly low now...
Jaguar still has a lot of brand equity. And Tata are probably anxious to offload it.
And I have to say that PSA seem to do pretty well with their brand portfolio. They seem to be putting out a lot of good stuff and they seem to move very quickly - witness the speed with which they completely re-engineered the Corsa to get off GM technology, and the speed with which they refactored Vauxhall, even killing sacred cows like the Insignia estate.
DS is not doing great but they claim to be in for the long haul there...we will see I guess.
I could see PSA buying Jaguar and putting everything onto PSA platforms while keeping a distinctive visual identity. I would guess that Land Rover is not for sale, but who knows...maybe Tata would offload both. I know that a lot of the dealerships have been combined into JLR dealerships, so maybe the two cannot be separated so easily.
Fiat Chrysler and PSA are merging so they dont need Jaguar, or guess want them either.I can see the logic. PSA has no "sporting luxury" brand, and have openly said that they would like one. DS is more about comfort than sporty. And if you want a sporting luxury brand, there are not many to choose from. I doubt that FCA would ever sell Maserati or Alfa Romeo. Buying Aston Martin would probably not fit, although their share price must be temptingly low now...
Jaguar still has a lot of brand equity. And Tata are probably anxious to offload it.
And I have to say that PSA seem to do pretty well with their brand portfolio. They seem to be putting out a lot of good stuff and they seem to move very quickly - witness the speed with which they completely re-engineered the Corsa to get off GM technology, and the speed with which they refactored Vauxhall, even killing sacred cows like the Insignia estate.
DS is not doing great but they claim to be in for the long haul there...we will see I guess.
I could see PSA buying Jaguar and putting everything onto PSA platforms while keeping a distinctive visual identity. I would guess that Land Rover is not for sale, but who knows...maybe Tata would offload both. I know that a lot of the dealerships have been combined into JLR dealerships, so maybe the two cannot be separated so easily.
I see BMW have ties with JLR for electrification. Perhaps BMW could take on Jaguar?! Imagine that, reskinned BMWs with Jaguar bodies.. but then they've made a success with Rolls Royce and Mini, surely a mid level british brand would slot in there too. They also dabbled with Rover, so what is one more GB brand?
Perhaps BMW could pitch Jaguar a bit higher than their own models, a sort of Maserati and Alfa situation. Jaguar can focus on performance sports cars (which BMW aren't for some reason) and premium sports SUVs..
Although I cant imagine that going down well in Germany, or Britain for that matter.
The numbers dont look good. A four day week across the board is grim, some might just wrap themselves in the Union Jack over the whole affair but this is not a time to be doing a half day.
"Jaguar Land Rover sold 557,706 cars last year. The Jaguar brand's sales fell by 11 percent to 162,601 units, while Land Rover's sales fell by 3.8 percent to 396,105"
"Four four weeks, starting at the end of this month, Jaguar Land Rover will cease production on certain days at its Castle Bromwich plant, where the Jaguar F-Type, XE, XF and XJ are built. At its Solihull factory, where it produces the F-Pace, Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover, production will stop on certain full or half days until the end of March"
"Jaguar Land Rover is looking to save £2.5 billion after encountering huge losses as a result of declining sales in China, where sales dropped by 14 percent last year alone, and a slump in demand for diesel vehcicles in Europe. The company posted a 2.3 percent drop in sales in the final quarter of 2019"
"Jaguar Land Rover sold 557,706 cars last year. The Jaguar brand's sales fell by 11 percent to 162,601 units, while Land Rover's sales fell by 3.8 percent to 396,105"
"Four four weeks, starting at the end of this month, Jaguar Land Rover will cease production on certain days at its Castle Bromwich plant, where the Jaguar F-Type, XE, XF and XJ are built. At its Solihull factory, where it produces the F-Pace, Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover, production will stop on certain full or half days until the end of March"
"Jaguar Land Rover is looking to save £2.5 billion after encountering huge losses as a result of declining sales in China, where sales dropped by 14 percent last year alone, and a slump in demand for diesel vehcicles in Europe. The company posted a 2.3 percent drop in sales in the final quarter of 2019"
YouTalkinToMe said:
I see BMW have ties with JLR for electrification. Perhaps BMW could take on Jaguar?! Imagine that, reskinned BMWs with Jaguar bodies.. but then they've made a success with Rolls Royce and Mini, surely a mid level british brand would slot in there too. They also dabbled with Rover, so what is one more GB brand?
Perhaps BMW could pitch Jaguar a bit higher than their own models, a sort of Maserati and Alfa situation. Jaguar can focus on performance sports cars (which BMW aren't for some reason) and premium sports SUVs..
Although I cant imagine that going down well in Germany, or Britain for that matter.
BMW have already been there - they owned JLR from 1994-2000 before selling it to Ford.Perhaps BMW could pitch Jaguar a bit higher than their own models, a sort of Maserati and Alfa situation. Jaguar can focus on performance sports cars (which BMW aren't for some reason) and premium sports SUVs..
Although I cant imagine that going down well in Germany, or Britain for that matter.
syl said:
YouTalkinToMe said:
I see BMW have ties with JLR for electrification. Perhaps BMW could take on Jaguar?! Imagine that, reskinned BMWs with Jaguar bodies.. but then they've made a success with Rolls Royce and Mini, surely a mid level british brand would slot in there too. They also dabbled with Rover, so what is one more GB brand?
Perhaps BMW could pitch Jaguar a bit higher than their own models, a sort of Maserati and Alfa situation. Jaguar can focus on performance sports cars (which BMW aren't for some reason) and premium sports SUVs..
Although I cant imagine that going down well in Germany, or Britain for that matter.
BMW have already been there - they owned JLR from 1994-2000 before selling it to Ford.Perhaps BMW could pitch Jaguar a bit higher than their own models, a sort of Maserati and Alfa situation. Jaguar can focus on performance sports cars (which BMW aren't for some reason) and premium sports SUVs..
Although I cant imagine that going down well in Germany, or Britain for that matter.
WonkeyDonkey said:
Can you imagine if people actually realised that jaguars and land rovers are actually no less reliable than the German crap that everyone in the UK creams their selves over.
We've run German cars and Land Rovers for donkeys years and the Land Rovers are far less reliable than the Germans.It's "themselves" by the way. You're welcome.
WonkeyDonkey said:
Can you imagine if people actually realised that jaguars and land rovers are actually no less reliable than the German crap that everyone in the UK creams their selves over.
But they're not. Are they?
Range Rover Sport was the least reliable car for the second year running...followed by the Discovery Sport.
Not wanting to start another thread, but anyone took a look at Ford lately?
Share price seems to be cratering and this piece : https://www.ccn.com/forget-the-dow-coronavirus-cou...
albeit a little scaremongering perhaps, lays out a case for Ford shares hitting zero. Thoughts?
Share price seems to be cratering and this piece : https://www.ccn.com/forget-the-dow-coronavirus-cou...
albeit a little scaremongering perhaps, lays out a case for Ford shares hitting zero. Thoughts?
Otispunkmeyer said:
Not wanting to start another thread, but anyone took a look at Ford lately?
Share price seems to be cratering and this piece : https://www.ccn.com/forget-the-dow-coronavirus-cou...
albeit a little scaremongering perhaps, lays out a case for Ford shares hitting zero. Thoughts?
They had a 26% drop in sales to China ( before the virus showed up)....they will be challenged.Share price seems to be cratering and this piece : https://www.ccn.com/forget-the-dow-coronavirus-cou...
albeit a little scaremongering perhaps, lays out a case for Ford shares hitting zero. Thoughts?
RDMcG said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Not wanting to start another thread, but anyone took a look at Ford lately?
Share price seems to be cratering and this piece : https://www.ccn.com/forget-the-dow-coronavirus-cou...
albeit a little scaremongering perhaps, lays out a case for Ford shares hitting zero. Thoughts?
They had a 26% drop in sales to China ( before the virus showed up)....they will be challenged.Share price seems to be cratering and this piece : https://www.ccn.com/forget-the-dow-coronavirus-cou...
albeit a little scaremongering perhaps, lays out a case for Ford shares hitting zero. Thoughts?
I was looking at lease deals Last month, and A titanium focus was only £8 a month cheaper than an a class. However for £8 a month more the merc was faster, better mpg, fake leather and has a MASSIVE merc badge.
I’m guessing the pcp deals can’t be too wide apart either.
Ford don’t seem to do all that well in Europe either.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Not wanting to start another thread, but anyone took a look at Ford lately?
Share price seems to be cratering and this piece : https://www.ccn.com/forget-the-dow-coronavirus-cou...
albeit a little scaremongering perhaps, lays out a case for Ford shares hitting zero. Thoughts?
They're planning on culling nearly half of their UK dealers. That's big numbers.Share price seems to be cratering and this piece : https://www.ccn.com/forget-the-dow-coronavirus-cou...
albeit a little scaremongering perhaps, lays out a case for Ford shares hitting zero. Thoughts?
Flumpo said:
I think ford will be I trouble in the uk pretty soon. I think the fiesta is safe but I think the focus might be in trouble.
I was looking at lease deals Last month, and A titanium focus was only £8 a month cheaper than an a class. However for £8 a month more the merc was faster, better mpg, fake leather and has a MASSIVE merc badge.
I’m guessing the pcp deals can’t be too wide apart either.
Ford don’t seem to do all that well in Europe either.
Pretty sure it's the transit that is propping up sales here. At least that is what I've heard about the office.I was looking at lease deals Last month, and A titanium focus was only £8 a month cheaper than an a class. However for £8 a month more the merc was faster, better mpg, fake leather and has a MASSIVE merc badge.
I’m guessing the pcp deals can’t be too wide apart either.
Ford don’t seem to do all that well in Europe either.
Fiesta does seem fairly popular, see them about a bit. But not as much as the older one. Certainly the ST, you couldn't move for tripping over an ST. Now, I think I've seen maybe 3 or 4? That's it.
Focus has become almost as anonymous. Hardly see any about.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Flumpo said:
I think ford will be I trouble in the uk pretty soon. I think the fiesta is safe but I think the focus might be in trouble.
I was looking at lease deals Last month, and A titanium focus was only £8 a month cheaper than an a class. However for £8 a month more the merc was faster, better mpg, fake leather and has a MASSIVE merc badge.
I’m guessing the pcp deals can’t be too wide apart either.
Ford don’t seem to do all that well in Europe either.
Pretty sure it's the transit that is propping up sales here. At least that is what I've heard about the office.I was looking at lease deals Last month, and A titanium focus was only £8 a month cheaper than an a class. However for £8 a month more the merc was faster, better mpg, fake leather and has a MASSIVE merc badge.
I’m guessing the pcp deals can’t be too wide apart either.
Ford don’t seem to do all that well in Europe either.
Fiesta does seem fairly popular, see them about a bit. But not as much as the older one. Certainly the ST, you couldn't move for tripping over an ST. Now, I think I've seen maybe 3 or 4? That's it.
Focus has become almost as anonymous. Hardly see any about.
My wife had the old one and now has a new one. From the outside you can’t quite believe it’s an all new car. She says it’s a lot better in every way, but I can see why many people might fancy a change and get a polo or something else.
I wonder if the puma had just been the new fiesta if that would have had a bigger impact.
Flumpo said:
I was looking at lease deals Last month, and A titanium focus was only £8 a month cheaper than an a class. However for £8 a month more the merc was faster, better mpg, fake leather and has a MASSIVE merc badge.
It's quite funny reading reactions when people who've gone for the Merc call the dealer to book the first service and get told it's ~£350. Then the second year it's ~£600.Sheepshanks said:
Flumpo said:
I was looking at lease deals Last month, and A titanium focus was only £8 a month cheaper than an a class. However for £8 a month more the merc was faster, better mpg, fake leather and has a MASSIVE merc badge.
It's quite funny reading reactions when people who've gone for the Merc call the dealer to book the first service and get told it's ~£350. Then the second year it's ~£600.But all her friends have them...
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