Pay by the Mile Road Tolls in UK
Discussion
Simple really, electric cars should pay road tax/VED. Current nil rate regime may be understandable as an encouragement to adopt electric cars, but with the ban on sales of ICE cars coming, such encouragement is unnecessary.
Nil VED on expensive electric cars is very unfair anyway- it is a cross subsidy from the poor to the rich, and the sooner it goes the better.
No need for road pricing, or at least not to solve the tax take issue.
Nil VED on expensive electric cars is very unfair anyway- it is a cross subsidy from the poor to the rich, and the sooner it goes the better.
No need for road pricing, or at least not to solve the tax take issue.
mac96 said:
Simple really, electric cars should pay road tax/VED. Current nil rate regime may be understandable as an encouragement to adopt electric cars, but with the ban on sales of ICE cars coming, such encouragement is unnecessary.
Nil VED on expensive electric cars is very unfair anyway- it is a cross subsidy from the poor to the rich, and the sooner it goes the better.
No need for road pricing, or at least not to solve the tax take issue.
ICE drivers pay nearly 60 pence to the Chancellor per litre of fuel, that is the main issue of lost revenue. Nil VED on expensive electric cars is very unfair anyway- it is a cross subsidy from the poor to the rich, and the sooner it goes the better.
No need for road pricing, or at least not to solve the tax take issue.
courty said:
mac96 said:
Simple really, electric cars should pay road tax/VED. Current nil rate regime may be understandable as an encouragement to adopt electric cars, but with the ban on sales of ICE cars coming, such encouragement is unnecessary.
Nil VED on expensive electric cars is very unfair anyway- it is a cross subsidy from the poor to the rich, and the sooner it goes the better.
No need for road pricing, or at least not to solve the tax take issue.
ICE drivers pay nearly 60 pence to the Chancellor per litre of fuel, that is the main issue of lost revenue. Nil VED on expensive electric cars is very unfair anyway- it is a cross subsidy from the poor to the rich, and the sooner it goes the better.
No need for road pricing, or at least not to solve the tax take issue.
If this is news to you, you simply haven’t been paying attention. What do you think the billions being spent on high accuracy GPS are for? Or that a government would merely shrug at the loss of revenue from taxes on fuel?
ICE is already taxed per mile by the fuel. The government can slightly incentivise you into a more fuel efficient car, but its a blunt instrument - they can’t (say) discount rural off-peak car users through fuel duty without also encouraging peak congestion in our cities.
It won’t happen overnight, but it is inevitable. How broadly and how fast it is applied is down to the politics. For example, it could make new congestion charging zones easy to implement (time of use charging will definitely happen)— make speeding an impossibility; fine you for using a “rat run” or parking illegally; even determine your journey has breached a school exclusion zone.
That doesn’t mean “definitely will”, but the days of treating roads as a resource to be consumed how and when you please are probably drawing to a close.
ICE is already taxed per mile by the fuel. The government can slightly incentivise you into a more fuel efficient car, but its a blunt instrument - they can’t (say) discount rural off-peak car users through fuel duty without also encouraging peak congestion in our cities.
It won’t happen overnight, but it is inevitable. How broadly and how fast it is applied is down to the politics. For example, it could make new congestion charging zones easy to implement (time of use charging will definitely happen)— make speeding an impossibility; fine you for using a “rat run” or parking illegally; even determine your journey has breached a school exclusion zone.
That doesn’t mean “definitely will”, but the days of treating roads as a resource to be consumed how and when you please are probably drawing to a close.
cheradenine said:
If this is news to you, you simply haven’t been paying attention. What do you think the billions being spent on high accuracy GPS are for? Or that a government would merely shrug at the loss of revenue from taxes on fuel?
ICE is already taxed per mile by the fuel. The government can slightly incentivise you into a more fuel efficient car, but its a blunt instrument - they can’t (say) discount rural off-peak car users through fuel duty without also encouraging peak congestion in our cities.
It won’t happen overnight, but it is inevitable. How broadly and how fast it is applied is down to the politics. For example, it could make new congestion charging zones easy to implement (time of use charging will definitely happen)— make speeding an impossibility; fine you for using a “rat run” or parking illegally; even determine your journey has breached a school exclusion zone.
That doesn’t mean “definitely will”, but the days of treating roads as a resource to be consumed how and when you please are probably drawing to a close.
Nails it, IMO. This has been on the cards for some time, and I believe it partly explains the government's apparent eagerness to bring forward the new ICE sales ban and accelerate EV adoption. I certainly don't believe environmental considerations play any more than a token role.ICE is already taxed per mile by the fuel. The government can slightly incentivise you into a more fuel efficient car, but its a blunt instrument - they can’t (say) discount rural off-peak car users through fuel duty without also encouraging peak congestion in our cities.
It won’t happen overnight, but it is inevitable. How broadly and how fast it is applied is down to the politics. For example, it could make new congestion charging zones easy to implement (time of use charging will definitely happen)— make speeding an impossibility; fine you for using a “rat run” or parking illegally; even determine your journey has breached a school exclusion zone.
That doesn’t mean “definitely will”, but the days of treating roads as a resource to be consumed how and when you please are probably drawing to a close.
EVs are simply the justification needed to introduce a system that governments have wanted to adopt for a long time, but which under the status quo have been deeply unpopular with the electorate. Modern technology will make it easier to do, and more adaptable, and the loss of fuel duty revenue, and the unpopularity of a wider increase in energy taxation will make it justifiable, and broadly acceptable.
Not to mention the added bonus of the same infrastructure and software that automatically bills people for their road use being easily adaptable or expandable to automatic enforcement of speed limits, for example. And automated capture of everyone's travel movements by default (or at least those of their vehicles) which opens up a whole debate around the security of that data, and what it's used for.
Ultimately, this will suck so much of the joy out of driving that people will jump more willingly into autonomous vehicles. Which, I suspect, is also a big bonus for government, if not part of the overall objective.
Edited by Limpet on Tuesday 17th November 13:05
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/uk-world-news...
Looks like as much journalistic quality as the Daily Mail. I think the per mile rate suggested is supposed to be 7.5p per mile instead of 75p per mile.
Never let a decimal point get in the way of a good story!
Looks like as much journalistic quality as the Daily Mail. I think the per mile rate suggested is supposed to be 7.5p per mile instead of 75p per mile.
Never let a decimal point get in the way of a good story!
Response from Mike Thomas of the Parliamentary Cross Party Historic Vehicles Group which is Chaired by Sir Greg Knight MP. This was in response to an email from me asking if the group was still active and what they knew of ‘road pricing’.
It’s just a media led rumour that’s been spread before, last time during Blair’s tenure at number 10. Never happen.
Dear Mr. Xxxxx,
Many thanks for your email.
The Group is still very much active. You can view a list of all the current All-Party Groups on the Parliamentary website – the Historic Vehicles Group is one of only a few of them to have its own website.
With regards to ‘road pricing’ I am not aware of any such proposals although, as you say, there always seem to be rumours of it coming! If road pricing is introduced it would need to be accompanied by a sharp reduction in, or abolition of, fuel duty.
I will feed what you say into the Group and please do make your own MP aware of your views.
Regards,
Matthew Thomas
It’s just a media led rumour that’s been spread before, last time during Blair’s tenure at number 10. Never happen.
Dear Mr. Xxxxx,
Many thanks for your email.
The Group is still very much active. You can view a list of all the current All-Party Groups on the Parliamentary website – the Historic Vehicles Group is one of only a few of them to have its own website.
With regards to ‘road pricing’ I am not aware of any such proposals although, as you say, there always seem to be rumours of it coming! If road pricing is introduced it would need to be accompanied by a sharp reduction in, or abolition of, fuel duty.
I will feed what you say into the Group and please do make your own MP aware of your views.
Regards,
Matthew Thomas
How would this be implemented? My main concern is every car will be tracked to confirm distance travelled... that could have a whole host of unintended (or the cynic may say intended) consequences.
Almost need a separate tariff for electricity that charges cars - which shouldn’t be too hard to do as cars need dedicated charging points with power feed that can be metered and thus charged accordingly...
Almost need a separate tariff for electricity that charges cars - which shouldn’t be too hard to do as cars need dedicated charging points with power feed that can be metered and thus charged accordingly...
Bring it on.
I run a few cars - three of them cost me about £1600 in road tax before they have turned a wheel yet a diesel car would cost £20 a year and electric cars cost zero.
The whole car tax structure has been broken for a long time but I guess when they bring in road charging it will be on top of road tax...
It should be based on mileage - that way the heavy EV vehicles can pay for the roads they use like everyone else.
I run a few cars - three of them cost me about £1600 in road tax before they have turned a wheel yet a diesel car would cost £20 a year and electric cars cost zero.
The whole car tax structure has been broken for a long time but I guess when they bring in road charging it will be on top of road tax...
It should be based on mileage - that way the heavy EV vehicles can pay for the roads they use like everyone else.
Don’t need GPS for speed limiters, they being made compulsory anyway:
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/man...
Surprised a lot of people don’t seem to know this yet?
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/man...
Surprised a lot of people don’t seem to know this yet?
Looking at what a cock up they made of a simple track and trace app, I cannot see the government getting this sorted anytime soon. The simple solution is to put the duty on fuel so that those who use more of it , pay more. So simple.
Tax on EV`s is coming as they become the new normal and the government realises they need to get some revenue from the new increasingly popular option.
Tax on EV`s is coming as they become the new normal and the government realises they need to get some revenue from the new increasingly popular option.
Infrastructure is the sticking point. In principle it seems fair enough but how do you implement it? Toll roads, vehicle tracking, numberplate recognition/cameras?
The fairest and cheapest way I can think of is to base road tax on vehicle weight. That information is already available through the DVLA and doesn't require the building of new infrastructure.
edit: Although I'd like them to do it via black box. That way I could remove them from all my cars and connect them to a charger on a shelf in my garage.
The fairest and cheapest way I can think of is to base road tax on vehicle weight. That information is already available through the DVLA and doesn't require the building of new infrastructure.
edit: Although I'd like them to do it via black box. That way I could remove them from all my cars and connect them to a charger on a shelf in my garage.
Edited by Richard-D on Tuesday 15th December 09:51
One of the facebook groups I'm on posted that there was to be a peak charge on all UK motorways of £1.50 per mile. Given that 28 miles of my 31 mile trip to work (Pre covid) was UK motorways at peak times, I'd be on the line for £84 a day in road charges. That's £1680 a month just to go to work. No fuel, food, anything like that. I'm sure the article was wrong because that sort of cost is absurd. That being said, the government does seem to make some questionable decisions sometimes.
Far Cough said:
Looking at what a cock up they made of a simple track and trace app, I cannot see the government getting this sorted anytime soon. The simple solution is to put the duty on fuel so that those who use more of it , pay more. So simple.
Tax on EV`s is coming as they become the new normal and the government realises they need to get some revenue from the new increasingly popular option.
Tax on EV`s is coming as they become the new normal and the government realises they need to get some revenue from the new increasingly popular option.
Governments have never had a great track record on IT systems, so there might be hope.
WRT tax on EVs, why do we think that the Government is spending so much on badgering people into getting a smart meter?
Call me paranoid, but.....
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