RE: Safety concerns over 'A' pillars
Discussion
hugoagogo said:
and when you add the thick A-pillar to the bid PDA navigation thing and mobile phone in a bracket all stuck right in the middle of the screen......
does anyone ever get stopped for having those things blocking their view?
does anyone ever get stopped for having those things blocking their view?
My TomTom annoyed the hell out of me if it was anywhere near the windscreen. After one journey with it on the default mount I had to buy the alternative kit and put it somewhere away from the screen.
How do people manage drive with all that kit in the way? Doesn't it send them insane?
Should just ban inattentive s**te drivers!
Have noticed though that newer cars have the A pillar half way down the bonnet, and wing mirrors hanging out of the door sides.
An A-pillar is a problem in any car if your a dimwit, even the best cars have a blind spot on certain corners and you NEED to move to get a clear view!
Maybe if it's a problem for you to have to be observant or move you just won't buy naff looking cars with 3ft up seating positions and dumbass MPV styling
Dave
Have noticed though that newer cars have the A pillar half way down the bonnet, and wing mirrors hanging out of the door sides.
An A-pillar is a problem in any car if your a dimwit, even the best cars have a blind spot on certain corners and you NEED to move to get a clear view!
Maybe if it's a problem for you to have to be observant or move you just won't buy naff looking cars with 3ft up seating positions and dumbass MPV styling
Dave
I'm old enough to remember the wrap arouund windscreen so beloved of the designers of ther 1950's. The 1958 Vauxhall Victor did not have any problems with A pillars - problems with rust, dodgy handling, asthmatic engines, plastic seats, drum brakes, cross ply tyres and rubbish build quality - but good visibility. Allowed a full view of the tree before you hit it at 25mph and it killed you whilst the last thing going through your passengers head at the time was the glove box.....
GTRene said:
Maybe we all have to drive something like this...no A or B pilars
GTRene
GTRene
Arguably an eye full of flys obstructs the view more than any pillars though
Surely modern a-pillars are excessively strong though, or just hugely oversized. Race car rollcages only use about 2 inch diameter tube and they are hugely strong. Why arent all cars fitted with integrated roll cages rather than trying to make the crappy tin-foil chassis metal strong enough? They needent be unsightly if they are desinged to fit the cars from the off (look at some Rufs and the Sagaris).
It's partly the fetish for 'one box' fashion-victim styling.
The 407 is a classic example of design stupidity.
My Prelude has a low scuttle height & relatively vertical pillars; TomTom is unobtrusive & the only blind spot is an odd driver's door mirror one, as if it requires a wide-angle lens.
My S2000 has nowhere near the sweep of a Saab windscreen but the uprightness does help compensate for the thickness of the roll resistant pillars.
The REAL reason Saabs no longer have the characteristic screen is they're made of re-cycled Vauxhalls; it's too expensive to move the hard points of the A pillars on a shared design. They did on the first 900 but then gave up.
The 407 is a classic example of design stupidity.
My Prelude has a low scuttle height & relatively vertical pillars; TomTom is unobtrusive & the only blind spot is an odd driver's door mirror one, as if it requires a wide-angle lens.
My S2000 has nowhere near the sweep of a Saab windscreen but the uprightness does help compensate for the thickness of the roll resistant pillars.
The REAL reason Saabs no longer have the characteristic screen is they're made of re-cycled Vauxhalls; it's too expensive to move the hard points of the A pillars on a shared design. They did on the first 900 but then gave up.
Pillbox on wheels is the way it's going. On my bike I always make sure a car driver pulling out has seen me (i.e. I assume they haven't and roll off the throttle until I nail their eyes) - an attitude that has prevented at least 2 SMIDSYs, one a lorry and another an old dear in a Micra whose passenger had to point me out.
I didn't buy a Seat Ibiza simply because I sat in the driver's seat and felt I couldn't see a darned thing out the windows. Didn't even take the test drive, just got out and walked away.
I didn't buy a Seat Ibiza simply because I sat in the driver's seat and felt I couldn't see a darned thing out the windows. Didn't even take the test drive, just got out and walked away.
got a ford focus diesel estate, it has a couple of blind spots that need to take extra care over, one for joining motorways and one for bikers, but the bikers always seem to manage to get into the blind spot at the wrong time. But at least i know about it and most times can see sufficently, but have had the odd scare....
Pies said:
Used to drive a Vauxhall Zafira,the A piller was terrible you could lose a car behind it 
Currently have a new Zafira hire car whilst mine's having some work done. I can't believe how much vision is lost to the a-pillar. Yes it's just a case of looking around it but that's not ideal. In most car's a quick left right head kink tells you what's there but in the Zafira you need to have an intimate relationship with your front seat passenger!
Thick A Pillars.
I glad somebody else has noticed this. I normally drive older cars and when I recently was in a hire car I couldnt believe how bad the visibility was past the A pillars especially on hairpin bends.
Saab have some of the strongest A pillars as they do a "Moose Test" and their pillars are certainly not the fattest, so it is possible to design strength without the bulk, but I think they use very high strength steel.
I glad somebody else has noticed this. I normally drive older cars and when I recently was in a hire car I couldnt believe how bad the visibility was past the A pillars especially on hairpin bends.
Saab have some of the strongest A pillars as they do a "Moose Test" and their pillars are certainly not the fattest, so it is possible to design strength without the bulk, but I think they use very high strength steel.
Mr Whippy said:
Should just ban inattentive s**te drivers!
Have noticed though that newer cars have the A pillar half way down the bonnet, and wing mirrors hanging out of the door sides.
An A-pillar is a problem in any car if your a dimwit, even the best cars have a blind spot on certain corners and you NEED to move to get a clear view!
Maybe if it's a problem for you to have to be observant or move you just won't buy naff looking cars with 3ft up seating positions and dumbass MPV styling
Dave
Have noticed though that newer cars have the A pillar half way down the bonnet, and wing mirrors hanging out of the door sides.
An A-pillar is a problem in any car if your a dimwit, even the best cars have a blind spot on certain corners and you NEED to move to get a clear view!
Maybe if it's a problem for you to have to be observant or move you just won't buy naff looking cars with 3ft up seating positions and dumbass MPV styling
Dave
Hey Mr Perfect, how do we know you are any better at driving than anyone here ?
It doesn't matter how good/bad a driver you are, the thicker the A-pillar, the more dangerous. What's wrong with MPVs ? If you don't like them, don't buy them but leave people who do like them alone.
The original Range Rover had wonderful slender pillars, in fact most 1960s cars had. In fact I wouldn't be suprised if chassis based 4X4s are actually the best cars in this respect - other than screenless caterfields that is.
Switching from my MK2 MR2 to a Vectra (yes, I know) the increase in pillar width was shocking - now I have to move around in my seat when driving whereas before it was possible to look "through" the pillar. But newer cars are even worse.
Surely it's better to let motorists think their car is "dangerous" rather than allowing us to feel like we are driving a "safety zone" (thankyou Renault) as that way we can treat driving with the respect it deserves.
Switching from my MK2 MR2 to a Vectra (yes, I know) the increase in pillar width was shocking - now I have to move around in my seat when driving whereas before it was possible to look "through" the pillar. But newer cars are even worse.
Surely it's better to let motorists think their car is "dangerous" rather than allowing us to feel like we are driving a "safety zone" (thankyou Renault) as that way we can treat driving with the respect it deserves.
hugoagogo said:
and when you add the thick A-pillar to the bid PDA navigation thing and mobile phone in a bracket all stuck right in the middle of the screen......
does anyone ever get stopped for having those things blocking their view?
does anyone ever get stopped for having those things blocking their view?
My mother-in-law's car failed it's MOT because the Tom-Tom mount was still on the screen (the testing station just took it off, but at least did note it). If this is an MOT failure, how can it be legal to drive around with one fitted? Her's was as low as possible, in the centre of the car (VW Golf).
In the past year I have had the misfortune of driving a Zafira, Seat Altea, Fiat Idea, and most recently a C-Max,ALL of them have this diabolical problem, I thought it was just me but Aside from the obvious safety issue of not being able to see other road users, it is also impossible to judge the apex of most corners accurately, then there is the other problem of negotiating tight spaces with kerbs such as underground car parks!
I`d be happy to sacrifice some aerodynamics for some visibility!!!!!!!
I`d be happy to sacrifice some aerodynamics for some visibility!!!!!!!
We have a Mitsubishi Colt , same issue , worst i think is the seat think Altea the wiper arms park in the pillar which makes it even worse , also what happened to bonnets that you can see when you sit it the drivers seat gives to a corner to point at , thats why some older cars like MK2 escorts are great car for rallying it has a reference point out in front and can see the angle of the oncoming road to bonnet change as it starts to slide , easy for parking to .
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