RE: Ascari Ecosse
Discussion
Thanks ! We Porschistas have to stick together... (nice car BTW)Couldn't use Fangio as he is dead so they choose Ascari? Who is also dead, as is Picasso (Citroen), Cooper, Dino etc.
I think we are all reading rather more into this than exists and the truth may be found in an examination of registered trade marks. Had I the ability to produce my own car I think I would have avoided the name Ecosse in case it was associated with the identically named but ill fated attempt to keep a bastardised version of the AC M3000 alive.
I think we are all reading rather more into this than exists and the truth may be found in an examination of registered trade marks. Had I the ability to produce my own car I think I would have avoided the name Ecosse in case it was associated with the identically named but ill fated attempt to keep a bastardised version of the AC M3000 alive.
Fangio name was to be used with his permission and involvement (see earlier post), on his death the use of the name, image etc. came into the hands of the estate executors who weren't keen. Ascari's name was available for use. So, yes, tm law was significant.
Bastardised M3000? Nasty thought !
Bastardised M3000? Nasty thought !
I first saw the Bohanna Stables Diablo at an Olympia Racing Car show in the 60s, near to the Lola GT. The Lola quickly morphed into the GT40 and won Le Mans but it took years for AC to productionise the M3000 with Ford Essex V6 instead of the Diablos Maxi engine. It was 73 before the AC crept into production and although it wasn't a bad car,particularly when Robin Rew fitted a Turbo, it had missed the boat and didn't do AC (my local car co)any favours.
There were a couple of attempts to keep it going but the one Ian (McNab) is interested involved production north of the border with a nice Alfa V6 transplant and a body kit which seemed to use moulds taken from a deep fried Mars Bar (or perhaps Nessie's backside),it did not deserve to be called Ecosse and even Scottish Development Board funding failed to bring it to life.
There were a couple of attempts to keep it going but the one Ian (McNab) is interested involved production north of the border with a nice Alfa V6 transplant and a body kit which seemed to use moulds taken from a deep fried Mars Bar (or perhaps Nessie's backside),it did not deserve to be called Ecosse and even Scottish Development Board funding failed to bring it to life.
and talking about this Ascari, does anyone know what they did to the motor? yeah, they increased the diameter (it does now MUCH more rotation 
), certainly new exhausting systems and camshafts, but for what i know, BMW chips (ok, i don’t know the proper word in english) doesn’t allows modifications, so… who prepared this engine? just Ascari? or BMW (M)?
>> 4 ever roaring
), certainly new exhausting systems and camshafts, but for what i know, BMW chips (ok, i don’t know the proper word in english) doesn’t allows modifications, so… who prepared this engine? just Ascari? or BMW (M)? >> 4 ever roaring
robert farago said:
Yes, Lee Noble designed the Ecosse, which looks a Hell of a lot like the Ultima GTR, which Lee designed as well. Lee and Ascari founder/financier Klaus Zwart had an epic falling out. This could be par for the course, as a lot of people have a falling out with Lee. I thought he was a great guy...
For more photos, click on http://communities.msn.co.uk/autophot
As for reliability issues, I think Ascari would NOT break like all the other small volume English cars I've tested. Klaus is a quality freak, and the car reflects this. The Ecosse-- including the ride-- feels rock solid.
making friends wherever I go
For more photos, click on http://communities.msn.co.uk/autophot
As for reliability issues, I think Ascari would NOT break like all the other small volume English cars I've tested. Klaus is a quality freak, and the car reflects this. The Ecosse-- including the ride-- feels rock solid.
making friends wherever I go
I dont know Lee Noble but I do know Klaus and I can understand the falling out!! (been there got the T-shirt)
dycecooper said:
robert farago said:
Yes, Lee Noble designed the Ecosse, which looks a Hell of a lot like the Ultima GTR, which Lee designed as well. Lee and Ascari founder/financier Klaus Zwart had an epic falling out. This could be par for the course, as a lot of people have a falling out with Lee. I thought he was a great guy...
For more photos, click on http://communities.msn.co.uk/autophot
As for reliability issues, I think Ascari would NOT break like all the other small volume English cars I've tested. Klaus is a quality freak, and the car reflects this. The Ecosse-- including the ride-- feels rock solid.
making friends wherever I go
For more photos, click on http://communities.msn.co.uk/autophot
As for reliability issues, I think Ascari would NOT break like all the other small volume English cars I've tested. Klaus is a quality freak, and the car reflects this. The Ecosse-- including the ride-- feels rock solid.
making friends wherever I go
I dont know Lee Noble but I do know Klaus and I can understand the falling out!! (been there got the T-shirt)
I think they are probably both quite hard to work with....
This is one relic of a thread!
On Topic - I've seen an Ecosse before - fantastic looking motor.
www.beechesrecovery.co.uk/index.html
On Topic - I've seen an Ecosse before - fantastic looking motor.
www.beechesrecovery.co.uk/index.html
Edited by mc_blue on Sunday 21st January 11:49
My car share's the same engine from the latest Ascari Ecosse 5.0 wich is a rare beast/engine.
Today a pleasant surprise when I opened the box where the car computer is hidden from my one off Hartge Z3 (Z47) coupe 5.0 (which is for sale BTW)
I wanted(in 2 weeks time) to let a BMW dealer lower down rpm a bit, its to high with about 1.000rpm in idle? try to get it to 700rpm.
but because its heavily changed by Hartge that standard M62b44 into 5.0 with many modifications, its difficult to get in the computer and you have to know date and engine type and engine management Siemens or Bosch etc...
So i thought, before I go to the dealer in 2 weeks to see if they can go in the service part and lower rpm a bit, i check what type is in...
first you come across some warnings that you may not change the mappings because of the special, for that engine type computer.
then I lift of that part and took the engine computer out (without disconnecting) to see what make/type it is.
its a Bosch but there were some stickers on it...saying please do not alter engine mapping...and on top some old tape with writing from ascari also saying rpm is a bit to high? and some other tech stuff ;-) I thought...ascari?
So I turned the box to see if there is more tape on the box, and on the other side was this
That's the latest engine that came in the Ascari Ecosse one of 17 made and only one? with this engine.
So that makes the story of my special one off Hartge even more special, it share's the engine with the last Ascari Ecosse, most of the 17 Ascari Ecosse where made with Hartge's 4.7 and that one made 400hp.
That's why my car has more power then the series 5.0 that Hartge sold based on a newer type M62B44.
Mine and so Ascari's engine is based on the 1997<>1998 type engine without vanos and a very high working temp.
quote]Bigger changes were found in the engine bay where the original Detroit muscle was replaced by a BMW sourced V8 engine. Not satisfied with the stock performance, the V8s were sent to specialists Hartge for upgrades before being installed in the Ascari. Initially the BMW/Hartge unit displaced 4.4 litre and produced a healthy 300 bhp. Shortly after the road car's launch a larger, 4.7 version litre became available which put out an additional 100 horses. The engine was mated to a ZF supplied five-speed gearbox.
They increased the engine's capacity from 4.4 to 5 litres
[/quote]
Today a pleasant surprise when I opened the box where the car computer is hidden from my one off Hartge Z3 (Z47) coupe 5.0 (which is for sale BTW)
I wanted(in 2 weeks time) to let a BMW dealer lower down rpm a bit, its to high with about 1.000rpm in idle? try to get it to 700rpm.
but because its heavily changed by Hartge that standard M62b44 into 5.0 with many modifications, its difficult to get in the computer and you have to know date and engine type and engine management Siemens or Bosch etc...
So i thought, before I go to the dealer in 2 weeks to see if they can go in the service part and lower rpm a bit, i check what type is in...
first you come across some warnings that you may not change the mappings because of the special, for that engine type computer.
then I lift of that part and took the engine computer out (without disconnecting) to see what make/type it is.
its a Bosch but there were some stickers on it...saying please do not alter engine mapping...and on top some old tape with writing from ascari also saying rpm is a bit to high? and some other tech stuff ;-) I thought...ascari?
So I turned the box to see if there is more tape on the box, and on the other side was this
That's the latest engine that came in the Ascari Ecosse one of 17 made and only one? with this engine.
So that makes the story of my special one off Hartge even more special, it share's the engine with the last Ascari Ecosse, most of the 17 Ascari Ecosse where made with Hartge's 4.7 and that one made 400hp.
That's why my car has more power then the series 5.0 that Hartge sold based on a newer type M62B44.
Mine and so Ascari's engine is based on the 1997<>1998 type engine without vanos and a very high working temp.
quote]Bigger changes were found in the engine bay where the original Detroit muscle was replaced by a BMW sourced V8 engine. Not satisfied with the stock performance, the V8s were sent to specialists Hartge for upgrades before being installed in the Ascari. Initially the BMW/Hartge unit displaced 4.4 litre and produced a healthy 300 bhp. Shortly after the road car's launch a larger, 4.7 version litre became available which put out an additional 100 horses. The engine was mated to a ZF supplied five-speed gearbox.
They increased the engine's capacity from 4.4 to 5 litres
[/quote]
I already got a mail back from Ascari, it was written in Dutch (Dutch guy to I guess)
and with much info about the Ascari Ecosse and answers for what I was wondering about, so I'm happy with it.
in short he wrote (if I can translate it a bit from NL to English with the computer)
Thank for you e-mail and the interest in Ascari. My name is Rxxx. Txxxx.. and I work for Ascari as from 2001
I have much cooperated with people who worked for the Ecosse. The last 3 cars are with the Hartge 5 L engine(same as mine). Last one build in 2000, in Blandford with sequential acceleration barge and still in the possession of Ascari (you can not buy).
The existence of 10 Ecosses has been confessed at fabriek.1 in Australia, 1 in the US with US engine and it are only restored for the circuit use, 1 in the Netherlands, and the rest in Engeland.De original racecar driver which was used in the British GT at the moment Simpson Motorsport in the UK.De car in the Netherlands is only LHD Ecosse build, this car has standard BMW engine and 6 an acceleration ZF hand barge. This acceleration barge the only hand 6 barge has been used in Ecosse.De colour is dark greenness and lives in Drenthe.
The engine manegment system for all Hartge engines were Bosh and came directly of Hartge themselves.
The first ECU sent to Ascari had the problem of too high rpm idle. THE ECU had been returned and another was send back.
It sees to that Hartge have used it in their own project. I recognise the grapheme(writing) on you ECU and it was in a Ascaris hands.
Our engines have come always directly of Hartge and have never been sent back.
The factory in United Kingdom has been closed previous year but KZ1 the race car becomes now build in Spain on the Ascari race Resort.De street car of KZ1 only becomes on application made. I frequently seen your car on sale on Pistonheads.In United Kingdom I had, as it happens, myself a Z3MCoupe with the S50 engine in Estoril blue. A fantastic car. Unfortunately previous year sold with the departure to Spanje.I hope that I could help with your questions.
Kind regards, Rxxxx.
Rxxxx Txxxx.. (I covered his name for privacy reasons)
Assistant Production manager
and with much info about the Ascari Ecosse and answers for what I was wondering about, so I'm happy with it.
in short he wrote (if I can translate it a bit from NL to English with the computer)
Thank for you e-mail and the interest in Ascari. My name is Rxxx. Txxxx.. and I work for Ascari as from 2001
I have much cooperated with people who worked for the Ecosse. The last 3 cars are with the Hartge 5 L engine(same as mine). Last one build in 2000, in Blandford with sequential acceleration barge and still in the possession of Ascari (you can not buy).
The existence of 10 Ecosses has been confessed at fabriek.1 in Australia, 1 in the US with US engine and it are only restored for the circuit use, 1 in the Netherlands, and the rest in Engeland.De original racecar driver which was used in the British GT at the moment Simpson Motorsport in the UK.De car in the Netherlands is only LHD Ecosse build, this car has standard BMW engine and 6 an acceleration ZF hand barge. This acceleration barge the only hand 6 barge has been used in Ecosse.De colour is dark greenness and lives in Drenthe.
The engine manegment system for all Hartge engines were Bosh and came directly of Hartge themselves.
The first ECU sent to Ascari had the problem of too high rpm idle. THE ECU had been returned and another was send back.
It sees to that Hartge have used it in their own project. I recognise the grapheme(writing) on you ECU and it was in a Ascaris hands.
Our engines have come always directly of Hartge and have never been sent back.
The factory in United Kingdom has been closed previous year but KZ1 the race car becomes now build in Spain on the Ascari race Resort.De street car of KZ1 only becomes on application made. I frequently seen your car on sale on Pistonheads.In United Kingdom I had, as it happens, myself a Z3MCoupe with the S50 engine in Estoril blue. A fantastic car. Unfortunately previous year sold with the departure to Spanje.I hope that I could help with your questions.
Kind regards, Rxxxx.
Rxxxx Txxxx.. (I covered his name for privacy reasons)
Assistant Production manager
Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 17th March 10:16
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