RE: Expect Higher Repair And Servicing Bills
Discussion
mattsimis said:
Another vague and poorly written "hot topic" to drum up anti-EU sentiment which gets droves of PHers riled up each and every time. The knee jerk "Brussels bureaucrats do X" , EUSSR talk really makes you lot look dumb, there is simply nothing clever about these little sound bites.
To PH: How about the proposed directive number, some supporting information, some info on why this would come in place etc? One very narrow piece of info with an inflammatory headlines... is this a tabloid of motor journalism. Do you even aspire to rank as journalists or just a pseudo motor-blog site with a limited audience in more ways then one?
Do a google for "EU car manufacturers independent garages" and you will find plenty of Directives and not-very-favourable to the car industry but good for the consumer EU moves on this area, quite the opposite of whats portrayed here. Im not saying the article is wrong, Im saying you just havent done an even acceptable job as a news service.
Sounds about right, Looks like PH Motoring News is turning into The Sun Motoring News?To PH: How about the proposed directive number, some supporting information, some info on why this would come in place etc? One very narrow piece of info with an inflammatory headlines... is this a tabloid of motor journalism. Do you even aspire to rank as journalists or just a pseudo motor-blog site with a limited audience in more ways then one?
Do a google for "EU car manufacturers independent garages" and you will find plenty of Directives and not-very-favourable to the car industry but good for the consumer EU moves on this area, quite the opposite of whats portrayed here. Im not saying the article is wrong, Im saying you just havent done an even acceptable job as a news service.
Edited by mattsimis on Wednesday 10th September 14:43
bigandclever said:
In another thread I said:
Far be it from to correct a newspaper but, I wonder if this p1sses on the article's chips....
It's less than a year since the EU did the following...
"The European Commission has adopted four decisions that legally bind DaimlerChrysler, Toyota, General Motors and Fiat to commitments to provide technical information about car repairs to all independent garages in the EU. The decisions were adopted under Article 9(1) of Regulation 1/2003. The commitments were given after a Commission investigation found that inadequate access to the full range of technical information could drive independent repairers from the market and that the agreements between the carmakers and their authorised repairers would therefore infringe EC Treaty rules on restrictive business practices (Article 81)......The commitments will be binding until the motor vehicle block exemption (Commission Regulation (EC) 1400/2002) expires in May 2010"
"By that time, the vehicle emissions regulation (Council Regulation (EC) 715/2007) will have entered into force. This places an obligation upon vehicle manufacturers to provide independent repairers with standardised access to all technical repair information. "
So, er, it's not the end of the world?
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?refe...
And just to clarify, it's nothing to do with spares, as in the OP, but information.
mattsimis said:
Another vague and poorly written "hot topic" to drum up anti-EU sentiment which gets droves of PHers riled up each and every time. The knee jerk "Brussels bureaucrats do X" , EUSSR talk really makes you lot look dumb, there is simply nothing clever about these little sound bites.
To PH: How about the proposed directive number, some supporting information, some info on why this would come in place etc? One very narrow piece of info with an inflammatory headlines... is this a tabloid of motor journalism. Do you even aspire to rank as journalists or just a pseudo motor-blog site with a limited audience in more ways then one?
Do a google for "EU car manufacturers independent garages" and you will find plenty of Directives and not-very-favourable to the car industry but good for the consumer EU moves on this area, quite the opposite of whats portrayed here. Im not saying the article is wrong, Im saying you just havent done an even acceptable job as a news service.
Seems some people just want to have a rant, even though the reality isn't quite as outrageous when one stops and looks for a moment - or maybe they can't read........To PH: How about the proposed directive number, some supporting information, some info on why this would come in place etc? One very narrow piece of info with an inflammatory headlines... is this a tabloid of motor journalism. Do you even aspire to rank as journalists or just a pseudo motor-blog site with a limited audience in more ways then one?
Do a google for "EU car manufacturers independent garages" and you will find plenty of Directives and not-very-favourable to the car industry but good for the consumer EU moves on this area, quite the opposite of whats portrayed here. Im not saying the article is wrong, Im saying you just havent done an even acceptable job as a news service.
kShoddy journalism at its worst. The situation is as follows: the automotive industry/trade as a whole has been exempted from the normal EU regulations ensuring fair and open competition in a Europe-wide, free market on the grounds that (according to the manufacturers) cars cannot be compared with other consumption goods because of the technical know-how needed to maintain and repair them which can only be guaranteed if the manufacturer can keep control over its dealer network. Fine, says the European Commission, but then you have to supply any interested parties outside your network with technical information 'at reasonable cost'.
Now the EU commissioners see that the current block exemption law (which has been last modified in 2002 to ensure better competition) is unnecessary and despite the modifications has lead to a situation where the manufacturers have their franchised dealers by the balls - in order to protect their networks from 'intruders' they jacked up the requirements for dealerships sky high so that the ROI on car sales is rather unfavourable for existing and new dealerships alike (and as the dealer must live from something, the workshop must make up for the shortfall - this, along with having to be at an 'A1 location' at the manufacturer's decree with both showroom and workshop, is why franchised dealer workshop hourly rates are as high as they are).
So, in short, it's likely the car business won't be exempted from being subject to laws forbidding any anti-competitive behaviour like all other industries are subject to anymore - and of course that means the manufacturers won't have to provide parties outside the network with their technical information anymore either as it's assumed natural competition will do it's work.
Swings & roundabouts?
Now the EU commissioners see that the current block exemption law (which has been last modified in 2002 to ensure better competition) is unnecessary and despite the modifications has lead to a situation where the manufacturers have their franchised dealers by the balls - in order to protect their networks from 'intruders' they jacked up the requirements for dealerships sky high so that the ROI on car sales is rather unfavourable for existing and new dealerships alike (and as the dealer must live from something, the workshop must make up for the shortfall - this, along with having to be at an 'A1 location' at the manufacturer's decree with both showroom and workshop, is why franchised dealer workshop hourly rates are as high as they are).
So, in short, it's likely the car business won't be exempted from being subject to laws forbidding any anti-competitive behaviour like all other industries are subject to anymore - and of course that means the manufacturers won't have to provide parties outside the network with their technical information anymore either as it's assumed natural competition will do it's work.
Swings & roundabouts?
Surely it is in the interests of a motor manufacturer to protect its image by ensuring any outlet wishing to retail or maintain its product must conform to a certain standard of service. If you walked into a shabby porsche dealer, the salesman was rude and the cars were dirty you'd think "now those porche chaps werent very helpful, I think Ill try ferrari down the road".
Similarly, if they wish their vehicles to be seen as reliable they must retain some control over the servicing and repair of the vehicles. Why should they then provide all the technical know how on a vehicle, learned through ££££££££'s of R&D investment and complex international technical knowledge sharing departments etc, to any fred in a shed to then take away all their customers and potentially shorten the lifespan of the vehicle (such as some independents inability to service the latest emissions control systems properly)?
Im all for getting the spanners out myself, or going to a trusted mechanic when it all becomes too much, but the manufacturers have to look after their busines, their margins are squeezed as it is.
Similarly, if they wish their vehicles to be seen as reliable they must retain some control over the servicing and repair of the vehicles. Why should they then provide all the technical know how on a vehicle, learned through ££££££££'s of R&D investment and complex international technical knowledge sharing departments etc, to any fred in a shed to then take away all their customers and potentially shorten the lifespan of the vehicle (such as some independents inability to service the latest emissions control systems properly)?
Im all for getting the spanners out myself, or going to a trusted mechanic when it all becomes too much, but the manufacturers have to look after their busines, their margins are squeezed as it is.
ally_f said:
Surely it is in the interests of a motor manufacturer to protect its image by ensuring any outlet wishing to retail or maintain its product must conform to a certain standard of service. If you walked into a shabby porsche dealer, the salesman was rude and the cars were dirty you'd think "now those porche chaps werent very helpful, I think Ill try ferrari down the road".
Similarly, if they wish their vehicles to be seen as reliable they must retain some control over the servicing and repair of the vehicles. Why should they then provide all the technical know how on a vehicle, learned through ££££££££'s of R&D investment and complex international technical knowledge sharing departments etc, to any fred in a shed to then take away all their customers and potentially shorten the lifespan of the vehicle (such as some independents inability to service the latest emissions control systems properly)?
But conversely, why should a punter who wants to get his vehicle maintained or repaired pay a shrink's or solicitor's hourly wage to get Achmed, 16, first year apprentice who dropped out of school, work on their car to subsidise the nice glass palace at an 'A1 location' that is of no interest to him? And why would the market forces that work for all other businesses - being that some people are willing to pay a sginificant bit more for better service and a 'nicer' or at least posher environment, and that clièntele will largely coincide with the folks willing to pay a bit more for a nicer or posher car, not work in the automotive world? And just like in any business, a manufacturer can always give incentives to dealerships to live up to provide better standards of marketing of their product...Similarly, if they wish their vehicles to be seen as reliable they must retain some control over the servicing and repair of the vehicles. Why should they then provide all the technical know how on a vehicle, learned through ££££££££'s of R&D investment and complex international technical knowledge sharing departments etc, to any fred in a shed to then take away all their customers and potentially shorten the lifespan of the vehicle (such as some independents inability to service the latest emissions control systems properly)?
ally_f said:
Im all for getting the spanners out myself, or going to a trusted mechanic when it all becomes too much, but the manufacturers have to look after their busines, their margins are squeezed as it is.
Which is all of their own doing by keeping to an outdated production model based on vloume production for stock instead of procudung to demand. Global overproduction is what has squeezed the margins right out the business - only the current situation allows manufacturers to foist a large part of the tab upon their franchised dealers, who in turn need to pass on the bill to their paying aftersales customers if they want to stay both franchised and in business... I suspect that car manufacturers are behind this ?
I wouldn't worry about this as the internet will provide all the info you will ever need to repair any car, if they can hack the Apple I Pod in
a couple of hours then someone will spill the beans on any technical knowledge on cars.
``````just wait and see !...
TW>>>
I wouldn't worry about this as the internet will provide all the info you will ever need to repair any car, if they can hack the Apple I Pod in
a couple of hours then someone will spill the beans on any technical knowledge on cars.
``````just wait and see !...
TW>>>
Is it not only a few years ago that the EU declared that as long as the manufacturers schedule was followed and genuine parts used then independant garages could maintain new cars within warranty period and the warranty would have to be up held? I wish they'd make there bloody minds up!
The problem is not the EU or our government but the greedy manufacturers and dealer groups. Last week I had a new alternator'pulley,tensioner and belt replaced whilst on holiday in France the cost including labour was 800euros at a Renault main dealer. The price for just the alternator from Renault UK £650!! plus labour and ancillary parts. In addition the customer service was amazing,all fluids checked and topped up and the car cleaned all free of charge.
Compare this to the poor attitude sky high prices and typical incompetence of most UK main dealers.
A few years ago my brother worked in the service department of a large main dealer and if they didnt charge at least 12 hours each day for every 'technician'they lost their bonus.
Compare this to the poor attitude sky high prices and typical incompetence of most UK main dealers.
A few years ago my brother worked in the service department of a large main dealer and if they didnt charge at least 12 hours each day for every 'technician'they lost their bonus.
mel said:
Is it not only a few years ago that the EU declared that as long as the manufacturers schedule was followed and genuine parts used then independant garages could maintain new cars within warranty period and the warranty would have to be up held? I wish they'd make there bloody minds up!
None of the articles quoted in the thread are contradicting that. Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff