Looking to buy my first Cerbera, anyone know P885 KON?

[citizen smith]

JapanRed said:

Hi all, I’m very seriously considering selling my 911 and getting a Cerb. Prices on Pistonheads range from £18-£48k. What gives?
I know the £48k one has been recommissioned by Str8Six but if you could get the £18k one (or the aforementioned eBay one) for £15-16k you would then have a £30k+ slush fund over the Str8Six one. I’m sure even at Str8six £30k buys a lot of repairs and upgrades.

I’d probably get around £30-35k for my 911 and could put extra towards a Cerb if required. Total budget is about £40-50k.

The best thing about my 911 is reliability. I’m not mechanically minded so reliability is the top of my wish list, although I wouldn’t mind taking the cheaper model (if I bought that) to a TVR specialist and letting them do their thing to bring it up to date if necessary.

Any thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks. Rob

Personally, I would take my time and buy one that's been fully sorted privately. Might take a while, but will save thousands over dealer mark up's, plus you will have a good repair/update fund.

[ukkid35]

JapanRed said:

The best thing about my 911 is reliability. I’m not mechanically minded so reliability is the top of my wish list,

Surely a Str8six Cerb is the only sensible solution, it really sounds like you need a warranty

No idea whether it can be renewed if they care for the car ongoing, but presumably that could be negotiated

Edited by ukkid35 on Monday 13th April 15:12

[gruffalo]

ukkid35 said:

JapanRed said:

The best thing about my 911 is reliability. I’m not mechanically minded so reliability is the top of my wish list,

Surely a Str8six Cerb is the only sensible solution, it really sounds like you need a warranty

No idea whether it can be renewed if they care for the car ongoing, but presumably that could be negotiated

Edited by ukkid35 on Monday 13th April 15:12

I have to agree with Paul here, that Cerb is a stunner, lovely car and the warranty is bullet proof.

[JapanRed]

Thanks all. Is the general consensus that the Str8Six one will be reliable then? I am more bothered about reliability than warranty (although warranty is obviously a big bonus).

The key for me is not breaking down with the wife and kids in it. The 911 gets used on day trips to the beach and general days out. Hasn’t missed a beat and is super reliable.

If the Cerb broke down once or twice whilst family were in it I can imagine the wife (quite rightly) wanting me to get shut.

[stuthemong]

If you want a Cerbera to be reliable you have to drive it.

If you leave it in a garage for 3 months and then yeah it the family to Scotland, then make sure you have A A cover.

If you use it weekly, then you learn it's foibles, and you can feel when something is a little amiss!

Stu

What will strand you with a cerb is

Battery /alt/100A fuse
Starter
Clutch slave
Throttle cable

Lots others, but these are things that, IMO, driven often you get a feel for /you prevent them going bad as the movement stops corrosion/seizing

Cerberas are the best best cars ever. My absolute favourite thing to drive. I love love love them!!!!

[gruffalo]

JapanRed said:

Thanks all. Is the general consensus that the Str8Six one will be reliable then? I am more bothered about reliability than warranty (although warranty is obviously a big bonus).

The key for me is not breaking down with the wife and kids in it. The 911 gets used on day trips to the beach and general days out. Hasn’t missed a beat and is super reliable.

If the Cerb broke down once or twice whilst family were in it I can imagine the wife (quite rightly) wanting me to get shut.

My Cerb is maintained by them and in 11 years has let my down once, The return Spring on the clutch master broke, hard to plan for and easy it fix but not on a bank holiday weekend in Belgium with a recovery driver eyeing a nice big payout for an international recovery.

Any way it probably is the safest option.

[Tyre Smoke]

If you are thinking about chopping a Porsche for a Cerbera then I applaud you. But without wishing to piss on your chips, they are two totally different beasts.

Your Porsche was built by Germans in a bespoke factory in Stuttgart. Your Cerb was built by Lancastrians in a shed in Blackpool. The build quality is nowhere near the same, the Cerbera is much more highly strung and fragile. It will at some point, let you down. Whether you spend £15k or £48k. You need to go into this with your eyes wide open.

For example, you pay £48k for a car. Can you live with pathetic aircon? Can you live with the smell of hot engine and fibreglass? Can you put up with an annoying cold draught from somewhere? If the answer to all that is yes, then welcome.

[Shanksy87]

I would say there certainly isn't universal agreement the £40k+ cars are worth the money, but if you're not into spannering for yourself you will be paying a significant amount on repairs for the earlier (cheaper) cars. Be under no illusion that £30k could easily be consumed turning a £20k cerb into a £35k cerb, with all the downtime associated with the process.

These cars weren't built to a standard, more a price. This bubbles to the surface quite often and can be very expensive to chase issues, if for no other reason than the car's weren't built with serviceability as a priority so your labour charge can easily be 2-3x for the equivalent job on a "normal" car. I get undercharged by the specialist I use for issues I don't want to deal with and the numbers are still significant compared to "normal" cars.

Tyre Smoke has very neatly conveyed the essence of the Cerb, hot engine likely combined with a hot driver. These attributes are great for when you're in the mood, but if you just want to take your family somewhere you introduce theatre and added bother as a biproduct that you simply can't turn off. It will always be a high maintenance nuisance, like the friend who's great on a night out but you can really do without the rest of the time, for sanity sake.

I love mine, even though I should sell it and try other things, I just can't as the experience it offers (now that i've made it robust) isn't available without spending a lot lot more hard earned.

[JapanRed]

Thanks TyreSmoke & Shanksy, both great posts.

TyreSmoke - One of the reasons I want to swap the Porsche is that it’s not quite raw enough for a weekend car. It’s a Carrera 4S and quite suitable as a daily driver (although I don’t use it as such). I have considered a GT3 or GT3RS but they are £80-100k and although quicker round a track, unlikely to tick the raw and emotional aspects of weekend driving that I’m currently missing. Don’t get me wrong the 911 is a beautifully machine and handles like nothing else. But for how often I get into the Yorkshire Dales for a blast then it’s a bit wasted on me.

[JapanRed]

My worries with the £48k Str8Six Cerb are as follows;

1st owner 2003-2016.
It seems to have no service history between 2009-2016 - is this an issue?
2nd owner 2016-18.
Then fully recommission in 2016.
3rd owner 2018-19.
Total refurb to “as new” condition in Aug 2018 - its since done 100 miles in just under 2 years. Previous posters in this very thread have suggested these cars need driving and that things wear out if stood. Basically this car has stood still for 2 years and has no service history 7 years of its 17 year life.

£48k seems steep considering the above....

[2gins]

My thought as someone who doesn't (yet) own a Cerbera but has been eyeing it up for nearly 10 years.

£20k buys you a reputable AJP8 engine rebuild with warranty plus an excellent respray. Maybe more like 16-18k depending on your spec. Then you've got £10k from your budget to do everything else. Chassis and body lift (£2-3k for outriggers only if you farm it out, but with that budget why stop there?), the rest of the drive train - gearbox, diff, drive etc. Brakes, pipes, hoses, fuel lines, shocks, wheels & tyres, before you start on the interior. Your budget's up in smoke before you've started and you haven't accounted for your time and tears, so you're into doing it for love imo.

I can buy into that but as said, the market for these cars is people who want a TVR. I always thought the SR8six cars were dear, and they're well out of my budget, but put this way it stacks up better.

[Byker28i]

Tyre Smoke said:

If you are thinking about chopping a Porsche for a Cerbera then I applaud you. But without wishing to piss on your chips, they are two totally different beasts.

Your Porsche was built by Germans in a bespoke factory in Stuttgart. Your Cerb was built by Lancastrians in a shed in Blackpool. The build quality is nowhere near the same, the Cerbera is much more highly strung and fragile. It will at some point, let you down. Whether you spend £15k or £48k. You need to go into this with your eyes wide open.

For example, you pay £48k for a car. Can you live with pathetic aircon? Can you live with the smell of hot engine and fibreglass? Can you put up with an annoying cold draught from somewhere? If the answer to all that is yes, then welcome.

If I was to have a car for everyday that needed to do everything then a porsche fits the bill, but not a 911 - everyone has one of those
As for fragile, my japanese cars have let me down more than the cerbera

The aircon is pathetic, i don't get hot engine smell or hot fibreglass even when driving abroad in 40 degrees last year, what you do is open the windows and keep moving

£48K is a lot but thats a fully sorted Cerbera with a warranty, but that is top price

If you don't mind taking time to do the work as it comes along then you can a good one cheaper and do things as they need them. I enjoyed mine for around 6-7 years before being made redundant and deciding to spend that on the car. Since then I've tried makign it as good as possible, but have spent around £30k on it in 13-14 years, but it is like new now.

[Byker28i]

gruffalo said:

My Cerb is maintained by them and in 11 years has let my down once, The return Spring on the clutch master broke, hard to plan for and easy it fix but not on a bank holiday weekend in Belgium with a recovery driver eyeing a nice big payout for an international recovery.
.

I drove mine home from Bicester with the fingers gone on my clutch - made it fun judging the traffic lights/picking the route and balancing revs to change gear

[Tyre Smoke]

Thing is, this guy wants to take his wife and kids to the seaside in it. As well as throw it around a track. I'm not convinced that coming from a Porsche he is fully understanding that while you can go to the seaside and throw it around a track, it ain't no Porsche.

With regard to the keep moving thing, yes all well and good, but not great when stuck in a traffic jam. And we all know how Cerbs love being sat still in traffic. At Le Mans one year, I was crawling along in traffic with the bonnet open to cool the engine. I also came all the way back from the Nurburgring with the wipers refusing to switch off. Both annoying traits that we all look at like a favourite Aunt looks at an errant child. Not something someone coming from a metronomically reliable Porsche is going to put up with for long.

[ukkid35]

I'd be looking at the 98 4.5 instead (not just because I have a 98.4.5 either)

It does sound like it has been pampered, restored properly, and had upgrades that aid reliability

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

The opportunity to compare the two side by side would be very useful too

[ukkid35]

JapanRed said:

My worries with the £48k Str8Six Cerb are as follows;
.
.
.

Total refurb to “as new” condition in Aug 2018 - its since done 100 miles in just under 2 years. Previous posters in this very thread have suggested these cars need driving and that things wear out if stood. Basically this car has stood still for 2 years and has no service history 7 years of its 17 year life.

£48k seems steep considering the above....

It would be big red flag in a private sale, because typically cars that don't get driven have underlying issues that the owner can't afford or isn't inclined to get fixed

The lack of service history earlier in its life is almost certainly irrelevant in terms of its condition now, even though it could effect the resale value you might achieve later

Neither would concern me at all with a car sold by a reputable dealer with a proper warranty - not that I will ever be in that position

[Byker28i]

ukkid35 said:

I'd be looking at the 98 4.5 instead (not just because I have a 98.4.5 either)

It does sound like it has been pampered, restored properly, and had upgrades that aid reliability

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

The opportunity to compare the two side by side would be very useful too

Nice - you've got to love Chas write ups

[Byker28i]

Tyre Smoke said:

Thing is, this guy wants to take his wife and kids to the seaside in it. As well as throw it around a track. I'm not convinced that coming from a Porsche he is fully understanding that while you can go to the seaside and throw it around a track, it ain't no Porsche.

With regard to the keep moving thing, yes all well and good, but not great when stuck in a traffic jam. And we all know how Cerbs love being sat still in traffic. At Le Mans one year, I was crawling along in traffic with the bonnet open to cool the engine. I also came all the way back from the Nurburgring with the wipers refusing to switch off. Both annoying traits that we all look at like a favourite Aunt looks at an errant child. Not something someone coming from a metronomically reliable Porsche is going to put up with for long.

I've done a lot of work on mine. It sat happily in 40C+ temps last year in France, runs somewhere between 95-100 on the gauge. They can be made to behave, mind you the heat haze coming off....

Decatted helps a lot in keeping cabin temps down

[Tyre Smoke]

Decatting was useful upto a point. Didn't stop the temp guage flicking off the end of the scale when stuck in Le Mans traffic for best part of an hour.

It's definitely true, they prefer to be moving.

[gruffalo]

Byker28i said:

ukkid35 said:

I'd be looking at the 98 4.5 instead (not just because I have a 98.4.5 either)

It does sound like it has been pampered, restored properly, and had upgrades that aid reliability

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

The opportunity to compare the two side by side would be very useful too

Nice - you've got to love Chas write ups

I know the owner of this car, it has been pampered.

It went to the Italian GP last year and ran effortlessly wipe moter failed but that has been replaced.

Happy to be contacted if anyone wants a chat about it.