The standing mile, THAT video, and engine specs
Discussion
An excited customer in for mapping was just showing me a facebook thread this morning whilst he dropped his car off - asking if his cerb could really do that famous clarkson drag race run - and it prompted me to start thinking ..
The clarkson vid shows the Cerb doing the standing mile in just over the half minute .. and people start saying yes but TVR did a race engine / it was a 4.5, 4.7 4.everything / it had the wrong induction for a 4.2 etc etc etc
Thing is though, a quick google shows that both longbow and byker28i have had their cerbs down the standing mile in around 31 seconds, so IF TVR provided that Clarkson drag race cerb with a special engine they didn't try very hard if relatively standard cerbs in the hands of mere mortals can match the time .. so it was a standard-ish spec engine output irrespective of what intake it had?
Two other points I was thinking about .. people say that drag race cerb was dynoed at bang on factory figures, but it was the autocar test car that was dynoed not the drag race car (the autocar test was was 99 percent sure running the 4.2 induction - can anyone confirm?) ..
Also it says colin blower did the driving .. well he did the circuit driving I'm pretty sure (and credited on the vhs box? I would have to dig it out to check) but I was told that the actual drag race runs were driven by John Ravenscroft .. does anyone actually KNOW for sure who drove what ?
Was anyone on PH actually there that day and can remember what went on ? Or heard info direct from the horse's mouth (eg from Colin Blower direct - sadly we can't ask him himself now , or John Ravenscroft .. ?)
Would love to put this to bed, or is it better to have it argued over for decades to come and never know for sure ???
The clarkson vid shows the Cerb doing the standing mile in just over the half minute .. and people start saying yes but TVR did a race engine / it was a 4.5, 4.7 4.everything / it had the wrong induction for a 4.2 etc etc etc
Thing is though, a quick google shows that both longbow and byker28i have had their cerbs down the standing mile in around 31 seconds, so IF TVR provided that Clarkson drag race cerb with a special engine they didn't try very hard if relatively standard cerbs in the hands of mere mortals can match the time .. so it was a standard-ish spec engine output irrespective of what intake it had?
Two other points I was thinking about .. people say that drag race cerb was dynoed at bang on factory figures, but it was the autocar test car that was dynoed not the drag race car (the autocar test was was 99 percent sure running the 4.2 induction - can anyone confirm?) ..
Also it says colin blower did the driving .. well he did the circuit driving I'm pretty sure (and credited on the vhs box? I would have to dig it out to check) but I was told that the actual drag race runs were driven by John Ravenscroft .. does anyone actually KNOW for sure who drove what ?
Was anyone on PH actually there that day and can remember what went on ? Or heard info direct from the horse's mouth (eg from Colin Blower direct - sadly we can't ask him himself now , or John Ravenscroft .. ?)
Would love to put this to bed, or is it better to have it argued over for decades to come and never know for sure ???
We did those runs as a part of the discussion, does the Cerbera still hold up against modern cars.
At that point, Longbow had the most amazing launches, but both he and I had a standard car, they weren't tuned in anyway.
Generally the answer was yes, unless you had some expensive stuff or heavily modified cars.
I think the limiting factor on my runs was me, in that I got the car rolling before hammering it, because I had sympathy for the clutch/car. I've no doubt the car was fast enough to do the Clarkson video without any clever tricks.
Lets face it, the clever mapping, whirlwind induction, exhaust improvements etc have all been developed after this was done, and the clever specialists have much more knowledge and experience now.
Only caveat to that would be the Boss Cerbera. When was that built? Wasn't that a one off special from the factory?
At that point, Longbow had the most amazing launches, but both he and I had a standard car, they weren't tuned in anyway.
Generally the answer was yes, unless you had some expensive stuff or heavily modified cars.
I think the limiting factor on my runs was me, in that I got the car rolling before hammering it, because I had sympathy for the clutch/car. I've no doubt the car was fast enough to do the Clarkson video without any clever tricks.
Lets face it, the clever mapping, whirlwind induction, exhaust improvements etc have all been developed after this was done, and the clever specialists have much more knowledge and experience now.
Only caveat to that would be the Boss Cerbera. When was that built? Wasn't that a one off special from the factory?
The tyres back then were way off compared to now whereas the 993 was 4wd but got monstered. Evo recently said that the press cars were openly nobbled with a factory wink. My guess it was a hot engine but a good car running well on modern tyres is probably up to it.
Clarkson was and always has been a big advocate and supporter of good British cars and notably TVR so he could have easily told the others to ease up or added nos?
It made me buy a brand new Cerbie too (aged 25)
Clarkson was and always has been a big advocate and supporter of good British cars and notably TVR so he could have easily told the others to ease up or added nos?
It made me buy a brand new Cerbie too (aged 25)
Edited by Caddyshack on Thursday 17th October 17:11
Edited by Caddyshack on Thursday 17th October 17:14
Jhonno said:
Didn't the prototype/pre production engines run the 4.5 style induction on the 4.2? Iirc the top gear road test one also had the same induction.
I guess thats a good thing as the 4.2's fitted with a 4.5 bottom end make about 380bhp when mapped, but a good 4.5 mapped with all the knowledge now (whirlwind etc) makes 400-420bhp.The thing is, the Cerbera didn't just beat the cars by a little, it beat them by a lot. We know looking at fighting torque that you need some pretty good machinery to beat the Cerbera and looking over the results that launch technique made more difference than bhp.
So would a few more bhp from the factory, make that much difference over the clarkson run. The launches look similar from all cars.
I think it's just a quick car.
Now thats not to say it wouldn't be beat by even todays hot hatches, but at the time I'd say that was valid.
The OP big question still remains unanswered!
It cannot just be the bhp, torque or simply which type of induction. I’m no engineer but
methinks it is probably a combination of the three plus the fact the engine seems to rev so quickly/ easily. Of the three, however, I’m leaning towards the actual size of the air intake & 2 air boxes - I cannot recall any other car with such large intakes. Masses of COLD air gets in therefore more power??
Plus, isn’t the bottom end supposed to mimic the formula 1 cars of the period adding to the free revving nature of the engine?? My 4.5 revs really quickly compared to other cars I have ever driven. I hope that makes sense?
It cannot just be the bhp, torque or simply which type of induction. I’m no engineer but
methinks it is probably a combination of the three plus the fact the engine seems to rev so quickly/ easily. Of the three, however, I’m leaning towards the actual size of the air intake & 2 air boxes - I cannot recall any other car with such large intakes. Masses of COLD air gets in therefore more power??
Plus, isn’t the bottom end supposed to mimic the formula 1 cars of the period adding to the free revving nature of the engine?? My 4.5 revs really quickly compared to other cars I have ever driven. I hope that makes sense?
tejr said:
Fwiw, my old clatter cam 4.2 was far revvier than my 4.5. I wonder if the more aggressive cams can be fitted to a 4.5?
The 4.5 always falls short because of its intake design but that less revvy nature is mostly just down to the mapping .. very good on the 4.2, but done by Stevie Wonder's less talented second cousin on the 4.5The clatter cams, and indeed tuscan racer cams, seem to add very little/nothing to the hp in my experience. Best std tuscan race car I ever saw made just 380hp
spitfire4v8 said:
tejr said:
Fwiw, my old clatter cam 4.2 was far revvier than my 4.5. I wonder if the more aggressive cams can be fitted to a 4.5?
The 4.5 always falls short because of its intake design but that less revvy nature is mostly just down to the mapping .. very good on the 4.2, but done by Stevie Wonder's less talented second cousin on the 4.5The clatter cams, and indeed tuscan racer cams, seem to add very little/nothing to the hp in my experience. Best std tuscan race car I ever saw made just 380hp
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