hall effect TPS
Discussion
Hello again all, just getting ready for the winter and spending less time driving and more time improving/updating.
One thing on my list to do is to bin the Blue throttle pots and update to Hall Effect sensors.
I believe someone has had a batch made but not sure who, any pointers on where to source a pair would be much appreciated.
One thing on my list to do is to bin the Blue throttle pots and update to Hall Effect sensors.
I believe someone has had a batch made but not sure who, any pointers on where to source a pair would be much appreciated.
Yes I remembered reading this too so went researching and this is what you are thinking of I believe?
https://www.facebook.com/mys6cerbera/posts/pfbid02...
"Just a quick note to say that Gromit Electronics' contactless throttle position sensors for Speed Six and AJP8 engines are now exclusively available from Motaclan (or very soon will be)." (from the website not me)
https://motaclan.com/
https://www.facebook.com/mys6cerbera/posts/pfbid02...
"Just a quick note to say that Gromit Electronics' contactless throttle position sensors for Speed Six and AJP8 engines are now exclusively available from Motaclan (or very soon will be)." (from the website not me)
https://motaclan.com/
Edited by Juddder on Friday 20th October 12:48
and more details here (*I should be on commission... 
)
https://www.facebook.com/mys6cerbera/posts/pfbid0W...
)https://www.facebook.com/mys6cerbera/posts/pfbid0W...
DuncanM said:
Can you expand on that please? It's a genuine question on my part, and you seem to know about the product?
I actually don't know the product bar noticing that it was being developed while reading the blog of the guy who makes it restoring his Speed 6My Wow comment was based on the price being significantly higher than I was thinking in my head - I organised the group buy of the White and Blue throttle pot sensors from Hong Kong a few years ago so know what those cost at wholesale (*I sold them to everyone at the same wholesale price)
But that's just my initial reaction, not based on any prior experience, and to be fair everyone is allowed to sell anything they make at whatever price they like
Juddder said:
I actually don't know the product bar noticing that it was being developed while reading the blog of the guy who makes it restoring his Speed 6
My Wow comment was based on the price being significantly higher than I was thinking in my head - I organised the group buy of the White and Blue throttle pot sensors from Hong Kong a few years ago so know what those cost at wholesale (*I sold them to everyone at the same wholesale price)
But that's just my initial reaction, not based on any prior experience, and to be fair everyone is allowed to sell anything they make at whatever price they like
Thank you Juddder, I must say I'm relieved to read that, as I misread the "wow" as being an admonishment of my original post!My Wow comment was based on the price being significantly higher than I was thinking in my head - I organised the group buy of the White and Blue throttle pot sensors from Hong Kong a few years ago so know what those cost at wholesale (*I sold them to everyone at the same wholesale price)
But that's just my initial reaction, not based on any prior experience, and to be fair everyone is allowed to sell anything they make at whatever price they like
For what it's worth, I have zero issues with throttle pots (4.2 owner), and resolved all hesitancy in the throttle, by modifying the cable, swapping out the inner, for a stainless, polished, thinner cable.
I wonder how bad some people must consider the issue, to then pay £600 for a solution!
The blue pots whilst oem no longer make them are available else where however was found that they are not of very good quality and very noisy electrically.
Blue pots are expensive when you do find quality ones and don't last forever.
Martins version whilst expensive should be a forever solution to a rapidly decreasing supply of oem style.
Blue pots are expensive when you do find quality ones and don't last forever.
Martins version whilst expensive should be a forever solution to a rapidly decreasing supply of oem style.
Thanks all for the discussion, the hall sensors are my product. I can't comment on the price since the deal with Motaclan.
Original Ford potentiometers were never good enough to be a primary engine sensor, and my (limited) testing of the aftermarket ones... well, let's just say I'd rather refit my original worn blue one.
Hall based TPS are available from the likes of Variohm for £150-200 each but you'll be jumping through a lot of hoops to make them fit and work on an MBE. I needed a set for my car and there are several reasons why I gave up on Variohm and Strainsense and just did it from scratch myself, with the help of a friend/colleague.
The main thing was finding an appropriate hall sensor ASIC, and we got very lucky there as we found one which can be programmed to read the exact range required by the MBE. But then you need to zero them in the correct position - which is different for White and Blue. Programming involves custom made jigs and fixtures which allow each one to be tested before final assembly, all of which we do by hand.
Original Ford potentiometers were never good enough to be a primary engine sensor, and my (limited) testing of the aftermarket ones... well, let's just say I'd rather refit my original worn blue one.
Hall based TPS are available from the likes of Variohm for £150-200 each but you'll be jumping through a lot of hoops to make them fit and work on an MBE. I needed a set for my car and there are several reasons why I gave up on Variohm and Strainsense and just did it from scratch myself, with the help of a friend/colleague.
The main thing was finding an appropriate hall sensor ASIC, and we got very lucky there as we found one which can be programmed to read the exact range required by the MBE. But then you need to zero them in the correct position - which is different for White and Blue. Programming involves custom made jigs and fixtures which allow each one to be tested before final assembly, all of which we do by hand.
Thanks for the explanation, it sounds like you've done a lot of work to come up with a good solution. Am I correct in thinking that the aftermarket ECUs, such as Emerald only use one of the TPS for a signal? Even though its a quarter of a century old, I'm still thinking I'll keep the MBE. Its only real disadvantage is the lack of DIY mapping (but that could be a good thing).
Flatplane8 said:
Thanks for the explanation, it sounds like you've done a lot of work to come up with a good solution. Am I correct in thinking that the aftermarket ECUs, such as Emerald only use one of the TPS for a signal? Even though its a quarter of a century old, I'm still thinking I'll keep the MBE. Its only real disadvantage is the lack of DIY mapping (but that could be a good thing).
No you're a bit behind the times there! twin tps, twin widebands. twin full afr target adaptive maps, 3 separate maps .. plus all the usual aftermarket functions.It's also unusual that the MBE kills its sensors so quickly .. you just don't see that happening when you've gone to emerald, so you could argue you would save 600 pounds on TPS sensors towards the cost of a conversion!
spitfire4v8 said:
It's also unusual that the MBE kills its sensors so quickly .. you just don't see that happening when you've gone to emerald, so you could argue you would save 600 pounds on TPS sensors towards the cost of a conversion!
Hi Joolz, the problem is there is absolutely no way of knowing if/when your sensors drift. You can really only tell if they disagree with each other via the app/software, and that's skewed heavily by the MBE's response curve. Idle to 60% throttle is only about 15° of spindle rotation so that section sees a lot of wear.In my case both of them had drifted in a very similar way. It was only your eagle eyes that spotted a slight discrepancy, which turned out to be a very big difference from the ideal on both of them. That confused the hell out of me when I replaced my white one with an OEM Ford unit only to see the disagreement get worse, and was the spark that lit the touch paper of "when you want a job done..."
So I characterised the MBE response curve and built a test rig to graph the sensors directly. I can plot any sensor against the straight line it is meant to produce with angle, and zoom in on that all important window in which the system is most sensitive.
Edited by Stunned Monkey on Monday 13th November 16:58
Stunned Monkey said:
Hi Joolz, the problem is there is absolutely no way of knowing if/when your sensors drift. You can really only tell if they disagree with each other via the app/software, and that's skewed heavily by the MBE's response curve. Idle to 60% throttle is only about 15° of spindle rotation so that section sees a lot of wear.
In my case both of them had drifted in a very similar way. It was only your eagle eyes that spotted a slight discrepancy, which turned out to be a very big difference from the ideal on both of them. That confused the hell out of me when I replaced my white one with an OEM Ford unit only to see the disagreement get worse, and was the spark that lit the touch paper of "when you want a job done..."
So I characterised the MBE response curve and built a test rig to graph the sensors directly. I can plot any sensor against the straight line it is meant to produce against angle, and zoom in on that all important window in which the system is most sensitive.
In my case both of them had drifted in a very similar way. It was only your eagle eyes that spotted a slight discrepancy, which turned out to be a very big difference from the ideal on both of them. That confused the hell out of me when I replaced my white one with an OEM Ford unit only to see the disagreement get worse, and was the spark that lit the touch paper of "when you want a job done..."
So I characterised the MBE response curve and built a test rig to graph the sensors directly. I can plot any sensor against the straight line it is meant to produce against angle, and zoom in on that all important window in which the system is most sensitive.
Stunned Monkey said:
This is what the MBE response curve looks like. You can see how there's ~0.6V between 15% (idle) and 60%.
The digital-to-analogue converter embedded within our sensor gives a resolution of ~0.004V or 0.09°. This is significantly greater than the resolution of the MBE map
I'd be interested to see that response curve but I can't see anything on my phone or PC.... The digital-to-analogue converter embedded within our sensor gives a resolution of ~0.004V or 0.09°. This is significantly greater than the resolution of the MBE map
spitfire4v8 said:
when you've gone to emerald, so you could argue you would save 600 pounds on TPS sensors towards the cost of a conversion!
Also worth noting the Emerald can be calibrated with just a couple of clicks in the standard software to work a large range of different pots should you need a new one... spitfire4v8 said:
No you're a bit behind the times there! twin tps, twin widebands. twin full afr target adaptive maps, 3 separate maps .. plus all the usual aftermarket functions.
It's also unusual that the MBE kills its sensors so quickly .. you just don't see that happening when you've gone to emerald, so you could argue you would save 600 pounds on TPS sensors towards the cost of a conversion!
Thanks for the update, I'll bear that in mind for the future. It's also unusual that the MBE kills its sensors so quickly .. you just don't see that happening when you've gone to emerald, so you could argue you would save 600 pounds on TPS sensors towards the cost of a conversion!
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