4.5 bhp - is this false advertising?
Discussion
joelk said: I drive a 4.5 Cerbera. At one point, I also contemplated getting it remapped to get the full bhp out of it. Then I thought this car is really fast enough. It can beat anything. Getting it to go faster than it already does seems suicidal...
The standard mapping is very conservative, and has a large environmental/driveability/economy bias in it. The Red Rose one is slightly more aggressive.
Definitely be interested in seeing a properly done remapping however - hopefully coming from Joospeed some time soon!
dannylt said: Sparks - your comment about loss at the flywheel wasn't very informed. All the dynos which we've used correct back losses from a run down test. 20 to 25% losses through the transmission ARE typical.
danny
Danny,
I was refering to the link I gave as an example. I know the guys you use are damn good, and although 20-25% seems a little high, I cannot argue, as I know nothing about the specific circumstances. Your bhp figures are down, and you accept it, thats the way to look at it. A cerbera is still fcuking quick
. I was aiming it more at the average punter who will believe what he is told at a rolling road, which is often not wholey accurate, and used to make the test/tuner look good and the customer feel happy.
As I said before I have no actual proof, just the profesional opinion of someone else who has been in the game a while.
I also agree that it is the performance, not the BHP that is important.
Sparks
P.S Why are we arguing over this, I don't even have a quick car
I did insult you - check out the tvrcity list :-)
sparks - when I was researching this, 20% to 25%certainly seemed reasonable and consistent for the T5 + Hydratrak diff combo. Besides, in the end what really matters is power at the wheels, and if a Scooby/Evo with 380bhp shows 300 at the wheels then it's going to be putting the same power down, regardless of flywheel numbers!
danny
sparks - when I was researching this, 20% to 25%certainly seemed reasonable and consistent for the T5 + Hydratrak diff combo. Besides, in the end what really matters is power at the wheels, and if a Scooby/Evo with 380bhp shows 300 at the wheels then it's going to be putting the same power down, regardless of flywheel numbers!
danny
sparks - when I was researching this, 20% to 25%certainly seemed reasonable and consistent for the T5 + Hydratrak diff combo. Besides, in the end what really matters is power at the wheels, and if a Scooby/Evo with 380bhp shows 300 at the wheels then it's going to be putting the same power down, regardless of flywheel numbers!
danny
I totally agree.
Now if I don't get those chocolate bars, it's 50p a day, thats 2.50 a week, .... err I'll get a TVR when I'm about 110
Sparks
Is it false advertising, well yes. It doesn't do what is says on the tin. Does it matter much ... obviously not. What really counts is the performance figures and they are pretty accurate by common consent.
Q2) Is it a sensible marketing strategy?
We all get excited by the ultimately unimportant bhp figure before we buy the car ... we're living in Top Trumps land. Once you've driven a few and maybe bought one, you actually know what the cars are all about and the bhp numbers become a bit more acedemic.
Q2) Is it a sensible marketing strategy?
We all get excited by the ultimately unimportant bhp figure before we buy the car ... we're living in Top Trumps land. Once you've driven a few and maybe bought one, you actually know what the cars are all about and the bhp numbers become a bit more acedemic.
"We all get excited by the ultimately unimportant bhp figure before we buy the car ... we're living in Top Trumps land. Once you've driven a few and maybe bought one, you actually know what the cars are all about and the bhp numbers become a bit more acedemic."
Agreed...so, are you guys saying that desite being down on advertised power the 4.5 is still putting down 3.something 0-60s??
R
Agreed...so, are you guys saying that desite being down on advertised power the 4.5 is still putting down 3.something 0-60s??
R
Has anyone got rolling road printouts as JPGs on a 4.2 or 4.5, with or without "silent" cams?
I don't care about the actual torque/bhp numbers (I drive like a grandmother, so it's not like it would make a difference), but I'd be interested where the things come on cam & how peaky the respecive AJP8 are.
I don't care about the actual torque/bhp numbers (I drive like a grandmother, so it's not like it would make a difference), but I'd be interested where the things come on cam & how peaky the respecive AJP8 are.
With and without silent cams? To be a fair comparison, would both need to have been tuned properly, have their original or upgraded back boxes, manifolds, working cats or decatted, etc. etc.
Each car is different. There are some JPG's around somewhere, if nobody posts I'll stick mine up.
Each car is different. There are some JPG's around somewhere, if nobody posts I'll stick mine up.
how can anyone call over 250 lbs of torque from 2500 to 7500 revs peaky? yes peak torque was high at 58/5900 revs, but look at that spread ... excellent for a 4.2 and peak torque pretty good. This is a great graph for proving my Sprint article of the 4.2 cars holding the torque better at high revs than the 4.5 cars. It's really prove it's worth on long fast tracks.
the torque and power graphs would cross if they were on the same scale .. torque up the right of the graph and power up the left.
marc's got a storming std motor there.
the torque and power graphs would cross if they were on the same scale .. torque up the right of the graph and power up the left.
marc's got a storming std motor there.
Danny,
It would be great to see those graphs. I collect my 4.5 RR Cerbie on Friday and a direct comparison of 4.5 versus 4.5RR would be very interesting! I've seen ealier posts of yours and Jools' quoting a peak power increase of 48bhp but it'd be nice to see how the power curves compare!
It would be great to see those graphs. I collect my 4.5 RR Cerbie on Friday and a direct comparison of 4.5 versus 4.5RR would be very interesting! I've seen ealier posts of yours and Jools' quoting a peak power increase of 48bhp but it'd be nice to see how the power curves compare!
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