MP4-12C photos and review/comparison

[Diamond blue]

MP4 said:

This car is totally epic! There have been a few software related issues and a load of trash written by journos
Or by reviewers who's interest is served by knocking the car! By summer the software glitches will be history and people will be falling over themselves to buy the best car that I have driven AND owned

Mclaren do not deal in Lemons! What happened in Singapore last Sunday?

I have taken the car on track and it is totally mind blowing

Now I am right with you re wanting McLaren to succeed and you are hopefully right about them overcoming the rather high number of niggles but blimey , talk about buying into the image.
The Mp4 12C is NOT a Formula 1 car and making such a comparison is , well a bit naive at best.
A F1 car is a completely different animal to a road going car. Completely different engineering criteria and objectives.
How does the F1 teams performance relate to not having an operational Sat Nav or not being able to open the car in the rain ?

[MP4]

It doesn't but F1 commitment from an iffy start to the season and the huge improvement in that car relative to others is indicative of the tenacity of the manufacturer and its capacity to succeed?

Yes the 12 c has had a few minor issues since launch as other manufacturers have ! Mclaren have been methodical in dealing with them. If you own one and drive one you are in a better position to judge than the knockers and Tifosi!

[Lambo FirstBlood]

MP4 said:

It doesn't but F1 commitment from an iffy start to the season and the huge improvement in that car relative to others is indicative of the tenacity of the manufacturer and its capacity to succeed?

Yes the 12 c has had a few minor issues since launch as other manufacturers have ! Mclaren have been methodical in dealing with them. If you own one and drive one you are in a better position to judge than the knockers and Tifosi!

Well I own one and I think 'a few minor issues' is misleading at best. I have documented here the full list of things wrong with my car and spoke to other owners who have a near identical list. It's also worth repeating that as I write, Mclaren do not have a fix for a single one of these problems. To me, that's just not OK.

[ANDYCLAX]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

MP4 said:

It doesn't but F1 commitment from an iffy start to the season and the huge improvement in that car relative to others is indicative of the tenacity of the manufacturer and its capacity to succeed?

Yes the 12 c has had a few minor issues since launch as other manufacturers have ! Mclaren have been methodical in dealing with them. If you own one and drive one you are in a better position to judge than the knockers and Tifosi!

Well I own one and I think 'a few minor issues' is misleading at best. I have documented here the full list of things wrong with my car and spoke to other owners who have a near identical list. It's also worth repeating that as I write, Mclaren do not have a fix for a single one of these problems. To me, that's just not OK.

LMB,you are in the minority thankfully,MP4 and i speak to numerous owners on a regular basis,all of whom are generally ok with the odd little problems, and many blown away with the car,just to be here in the first batch of customers is a privilage,and we are being treated better than other manufacturers whom have had similar problems,apart from the door issue ,which was solved in 8 days,all the minor issues you can drive round anyway,you quoted earlier that production has stopped,which it hasnt,and the minor issues will be solved in a couple of weeks,apart from the iris,which you knew about,so you didnt have to take delivery if that was a problem to you.
I hope you get to enjoy this car when everything is sorted,which im sure you will,it you can make up your mind wether you are going to keep it or not.
IF you have bought into this for the Brand and what they are capable of you will understand and give them some slack,and that will pay dividends being a first adopter,if you have done so because you can and want the next new car on your drive,then you will be badly dissapointed

[AngryApples]

ANDYCLAX said:

LMB,you are in the minority thankfully,MP4 and i speak to numerous owners on a regular basis,all of whom are generally ok with the odd little problems, and many blown away with the car,just to be here in the first batch of customers is a privilage,and we are being treated better than other manufacturers whom have had similar problems,apart from the door issue ,which was solved in 8 days,all the minor issues you can drive round anyway,you quoted earlier that production has stopped,which it hasnt,and the minor issues will be solved in a couple of weeks,apart from the iris,which you knew about,so you didnt have to take delivery if that was a problem to you.
I hope you get to enjoy this car when everything is sorted,which im sure you will,it you can make up your mind wether you are going to keep it or not.
IF you have bought into this for the Brand and what they are capable of you will understand and give them some slack,and that will pay dividends being a first adopter,if you have done so because you can and want the next new car on your drive,then you will be badly dissapointed

Hmm

I have an issue with this -

We are not talking about Ford Mondeo here, we are talking about a car that is produced in (relatively) low numbers, yet on this forum we have 3 owners, all of which have experienced serious and numerous issues (to clarify, I consider "serious" to be anything that either strands an owner with a car that wont move, or something that stops the car from being driven as intended)

1) LFB
2) Maff
3) Maff's business partner

So that's a straw poll from PH with 3 out of the 3 owners I'm aware of all having a list of issues

I am not a journo, just an ordinary member of the public (with an unhealthy interest in cars) but my current perception of the brand is not a good one.

To have one of these cars (as in LFB's case) sat around at Macca with no fix date in site is just inexcusable, particularly as most of the issues spoken about appear to be things that should have been found in testing.

All IMHO, which probably counts for st all, but there we go

[ANDYCLAX]

AngryApples said:

ANDYCLAX said:

LMB,you are in the minority thankfully,MP4 and i speak to numerous owners on a regular basis,all of whom are generally ok with the odd little problems, and many blown away with the car,just to be here in the first batch of customers is a privilage,and we are being treated better than other manufacturers whom have had similar problems,apart from the door issue ,which was solved in 8 days,all the minor issues you can drive round anyway,you quoted earlier that production has stopped,which it hasnt,and the minor issues will be solved in a couple of weeks,apart from the iris,which you knew about,so you didnt have to take delivery if that was a problem to you.
I hope you get to enjoy this car when everything is sorted,which im sure you will,it you can make up your mind wether you are going to keep it or not.
IF you have bought into this for the Brand and what they are capable of you will understand and give them some slack,and that will pay dividends being a first adopter,if you have done so because you can and want the next new car on your drive,then you will be badly dissapointed

Hmm

I have an issue with this -

We are not talking about Ford Mondeo here, we are talking about a car that is produced in (relatively) low numbers, yet on this forum we have 3 owners, all of which have experienced serious and numerous issues (to clarify, I consider "serious" to be anything that either strands an owner with a car that wont move, or something that stops the car from being driven as intended)

1) LFB
2) Maff
3) Maff's business partner

So that's a straw poll from PH with 3 out of the 3 owners I'm aware of all having a list of issues

I am not a journo, just an ordinary member of the public (with an unhealthy interest in cars) but my current perception of the brand is not a good one.

To have one of these cars (as in LFB's case) sat around at Macca with no fix date in site is just inexcusable, particularly as most of the issues spoken about appear to be things that should have been found in testing.

All IMHO, which probably counts for st all, but there we go

Not 3 out of 3,its 3 out of 5,not great i know,thats not my point,they have admitted failures of the first batch,and i would think they all have their cars back now.The failures are not major,engine gearbox and suspension,carbon tub ,brakes all fine,its 99% an electrical glitch which will be fixed in 2 weeks,the car is not a lemon,far from it.If you look on 458 forums,they have far more individual problems,whats good about the MAC Problem is that they all have it,so its easier to tie down and solve quickly.I may be wrong,but i dont think so,were they went wrong was in the Pr department promising things they thought they could deliver from day one.Wrong!
But they will deliver in a matter of weeks,which has been a promise in a personaly signed letter from Ron Dennis that the first few of us recieved a couple of days ago,tell me if any other Chairman of car company has ever had personal contact with his inital customers over a problem,these guys are serious.
I would be interested if LDM of ferrari has ever written to a customer about his odd fires

[Lambo FirstBlood]

I'm happy to agree to disagree but I don't think I'm in the minority. I know two owners who aren't on PH who aren't happy and a third who has already backed his car because of the problems. Then there's the 3 of us mentioned above.

So I know 6 in total who aren't happy, one who has already backed his car and two others who are in the process of doing the same. Now there are about 90 cars delivered world wide, so in theory, we could be the only 6 people pissed off, but I doubt it.

As far as buying in to the brand, I did. I've been to the MTC quite a few times, been on Mclaren track days leading up to the launch, had VIP tickets for FOS from them and generally thought they and the car were great. You only have to go back on PH threads and you'll find me defending their case many a time when the hating started. That was before I had the car!

They have stopped production. I know you say they haven't, but they have. If your point is that all the cars they are not delivering are just sitting there 98% finished waiting for the fix to the problems, then as far as I see it, that's just semantics. Fixing known faults, prior to delivery is part of the production process and they are unable to do this. I have had this confirmed from 2 people within the dealer network and 3 others all who work for Mclaren themselves. I'm sure if you call your dealer, he will corroborate.

The worst part of all of this is that they don't have a fix or a date for a fix.

I was expecting delays with Iris but I don't know what you were told. I was told 2-3 weeks. I have now been told 4-5 months, HOPEFULLY!!

I definitely don't hate Mclaren. I have an order in place for the P12 car which is well documented here and I buy lots of cars from the dealer network so I don't intend on falling out with them either. The car IMO was simply not ready for release and Mclaren taking the drastic action of not delivering any more cars until further notice would confirm this.

If you're happy to live with all the problems, then good luck to you and I sincerely mean it. I'm not.

Edited by Lambo FirstBlood on Saturday 15th October 10:58

[Lambo FirstBlood]

ANDYCLAX said:

But they will deliver in a matter of weeks,which has been a promise in a personaly signed letter from Ron Dennis that the first few of us recieved a couple of days ago,tell me if any other Chairman of car company

That's not true. He does apologise and I agree it's a good move for him to write personally but he makes no reference to the amount of time they will take to fix any of the problems.

He says:

"My team and the Mclaren retailers are working with the pace and intensity that the Mclaren brand demands to fully resolve these bugs rapidly and effectively to ensure that any inconvenience to you is kept to a minimum"....

[70proof]

nice post LFB, sorry to hear of your problems......

what i don;t understand is why they 'rushed' the car to market if they knew issues existed..... bugatti delayed and delayed and delayed the veyron;s release til they sorted all the cooling problems etc.... surely maclaren could have done this... i find this odd as the road car division is led by ron and not whitmarsh, and i heard ron was a perfectionist...

[SonnyM]

MP4 said:

This car is totally epic! There have been a few software related issues and a load of trash written by journos
Or by reviewers who's interest is served by knocking the car! By summer the software glitches will be history and people will be falling over themselves to buy the best car that I have driven AND owned

Mclaren do not deal in Lemons! What happened in Singapore last Sunday?

I have taken the car on track and it is totally mind blowing

Epic mistake - it's now Autumn.

[anonymous-user]

70proof said:

nice post LFB, sorry to hear of your problems......

what i don;t understand is why they 'rushed' the car to market if they knew issues existed..... bugatti delayed and delayed and delayed the veyron;s release til they sorted all the cooling problems etc.... surely maclaren could have done this... i find this odd as the road car division is led by ron and not whitmarsh, and i heard ron was a perfectionist...

Veyron had no competition like the MP4 so knew they would not lose sales with the delay. I also think McLaren are under financial pressure to get sales revenue stream turned on.

[MP4]

It is autumn will be winter then spring - what is your point this is not a soft top m8

Edited by MP4 on Saturday 15th October 12:46

[APOLO1]

I was also informed last week , by the official appointed agent that production had indeed stopped......... cut it any way you want....in 2011 for 200k plus car this is just a Joke.

[footsoldier]

Production hasn't stopped. They are still producing the cars and then holding them from delivery until latest updates are completed, mainly the electrical.

[ANDYCLAX]

Lambo FirstBlood said:

ANDYCLAX said:

But they will deliver in a matter of weeks,which has been a promise in a personaly signed letter from Ron Dennis that the first few of us recieved a couple of days ago,tell me if any other Chairman of car company

That's not true. He does apologise and I agree it's a good move for him to write personally but he makes no reference to the amount of time they will take to fix any of the problems.

He says:

"My team and the Mclaren retailers are working with the pace and intensity that the Mclaren brand demands to fully resolve these bugs rapidly and effectively to ensure that any inconvenience to you is kept to a minimum"....

We will agree to diagree,but you will find the mapping for the sensors will be finished in 2 weeks and the iris is in january,which will not effect the car as a drivers car,you speak to 6 owners,i speak to 8,thankfully the general opinion of those guys is understanding,guess i only have eyes for 1 car company as ive been let down far more by all the others in the past.i hope it all works out for you.
If you have an order for a P12,as i do ,please dont burn your bridges, and look at the big picture,as you know that will be a limited production.

Edited by ANDYCLAX on Saturday 15th October 13:20

[SonnyM]

MP4 said:

It is autumn will be winter then spring - what is your point this is not a soft top m8

Edited by MP4 on Saturday 15th October 12:46

That's the point - it's not a soft top so why is summer of any relevance? Any issues should be sorted out ASAP not on a seasonal basis.

Enjoy the sun

[AngryApples]

MP4 said:

It is autumn will be winter then spring - what is your point this is not a soft top m8

Edited by MP4 on Saturday 15th October 12:46

I think if you look at Sonny's post he directly quotes you stating the software glitches will be ficxed by summer - that's the relevance

Oh, and re IRIS, somebody needs their ass kicking over that as a piece of hardware delivering GPS/Music/Etc that has been planned in from the start of the project now needing a total of 8 (?) months from the cars launch date to be sorted is inexcusable - and based on my own limited knowledge the "January" is probably optimistic, as with most software/hardware combinations

I think as people have said before the biggest issue is McLaren took it upon themselves to play Billy big blx regards their level of quality surpassing industry standards for this type of car, which has turned out to be untrue

Like LFB, I would've loved for Macca to bring out a car that really did show the others how to run a supercar company but it's not looking that way

[isuk]

ANDYCLAX said:

I would be interested if LDM of ferrari has ever written to a customer about his odd fires

Ferrari spa did write out to all early 458 owners apologising for the fire issues and sent us out a gift to make up for the single workshop recall visit necessary to address the issue.. HTH clarify this for you.

Edited by isuk on Saturday 15th October 16:51

[MP4]

Oh I see my post was a little ambiguous my point was."........

The software glitches will be fixed in a very short time mostly within 2weks and the Iris fitted January and so by summer these early minor issues will have been long forgotten and people will be enjoying their BRITISH cars and others clamouring to get their hands on one!!!!!!!

Sorry to have confused people

[SonnyM]

MP4 said:

Oh I see my post was a little ambiguous my point was."........

The software glitches will be fixed in a very short time mostly within 2weks and the Iris fitted January and so by summer these early minor issues will have been long forgotten and people will be enjoying their BRITISH cars and others clamouring to get their hands on one!!!!!!!

Sorry to have confused people

Let's hope so - after visiting the MTC last year to see the prototype I could see the passion and dedication of the Macca team. Let's hope all the issues can be resolved soon to complete customer satisfaction.