3200 Buyer's guide
Discussion
I'm pleased that most of you had good ones. I guess when I waved goodbye to mine just about everything was finally sorted barring the red key and the exhaust.
I only posted the downsides so as the guy (Tus373) got a balanced view. I bought badly and I wouldn't want anyone making the same errors.
I only posted the downsides so as the guy (Tus373) got a balanced view. I bought badly and I wouldn't want anyone making the same errors.
flasher said:
I'm pleased that most of you had good ones. I guess when I waved goodbye to mine just about everything was finally sorted barring the red key and the exhaust.
I only posted the downsides so as the guy (Tus373) got a balanced view. I bought badly and I wouldn't want anyone making the same errors.
It's always a pisser when you have a bad experience with a car. Couple of observations though:
1) You never, ever, buy a Fiat Group car without asking about the red key. And if it ain't there, you walk away or say you'll be back when it has one.
This isn't actually a "bad side" to the car. It (arguably) helps with anti-theft, and is simply one of those things you need to be aware of.
2) It is imperative when buying a high performance car that you *know*, back to front, what you're getting into.
Research used prices thoroughly, research known weaknesses thoroughly and ask around. You shouldn't go into these things if the depreciation isn't understood or the weaknesses of the car aren't known.
*Any* brand of car will potentially bite you in the arse if you go into it blind.
996s may well apeal to some, but there are very few in the range that would even start to make my nerve ends tingle. Also their residuals for certain models in the range aren't necessarily looking that solid (and are only going one way at the moment), and there are problems even with these alleged stalwarts of build quality - did you know if the gearbox goes in that you have to take a whole new unit as you can't get parts?
If I want reliability and good residuals, I'd probably buy a 10yr old Toyota. Masers, Ferraris, TVRs all have their (often huge) weaknesses. But this is part of what makes them so desirable.
High performance cars are money pits. End of story.
Good luck with the Merc.
PS Tyres are a fact of life with any high perf car - was the 230 for 2 or 1? And where did you get them? Just lke insurance, it's possible to get amazing deals on tyres and not unheard of for there to be 70% differences between quotes.
This all great advice guys, and I applaud you for it. I count myself as fortunate with my TVRs as they have been very reliable and trouble free buys. If I took all the negatives to heart about Tuscans, I would never have bought one. I did though, and it has been absolutely fantastic and not particulalry expensive with the greatest single expenditure being an £800 service because the tappets were due for adjustment. In six years of TVR ownership - I have only ever bought 4 tyres (you may say I'm not trying hard enough!).
But to Maser ownership. I am becoming increasingly seduced by the ownership prospect of these fine machines. However, it is suggested that these will cost more to run than a TVR would. Annual servicing (regardless of low mileage) and an annual warranty look like they will cost about £2400 together. Add insurance of £600 and I'm upto £3000. Depreciation? Well I get the impression that this has begun to slow down, but then there is this pre- and post 2001 model argument and newer 4200 coming down the line. I guess that I can expect to lose about £5K as soon as money changes hands.
Generally, my fun car mileage has got down to the 3,000 miles per year mark. Therefore I'm spending, potentially, £8,000 for 3,000 Maser miles. That is a scary thought. So I'd like to ask - is this realistic or pessimistic in your collective views? And is it so bad to buy outside of the Maserati dealer network so long as a car has the uptodate and full Maser Service History and Warranty?
Finally, the upgrade "campaigns". Have these ceased now for the 3200 with no more being issued - or is it still a process of continual improvement/development even though this model is no longer manufactured?
Many thanks again to everyone who has been so forthcoming with both their negative and positive experiencs.
But to Maser ownership. I am becoming increasingly seduced by the ownership prospect of these fine machines. However, it is suggested that these will cost more to run than a TVR would. Annual servicing (regardless of low mileage) and an annual warranty look like they will cost about £2400 together. Add insurance of £600 and I'm upto £3000. Depreciation? Well I get the impression that this has begun to slow down, but then there is this pre- and post 2001 model argument and newer 4200 coming down the line. I guess that I can expect to lose about £5K as soon as money changes hands.
Generally, my fun car mileage has got down to the 3,000 miles per year mark. Therefore I'm spending, potentially, £8,000 for 3,000 Maser miles. That is a scary thought. So I'd like to ask - is this realistic or pessimistic in your collective views? And is it so bad to buy outside of the Maserati dealer network so long as a car has the uptodate and full Maser Service History and Warranty?
Finally, the upgrade "campaigns". Have these ceased now for the 3200 with no more being issued - or is it still a process of continual improvement/development even though this model is no longer manufactured?
Many thanks again to everyone who has been so forthcoming with both their negative and positive experiencs.
TUS 373 said:
Finally, the upgrade "campaigns". Have these ceased now for the 3200 with no more being issued - or is it still a process of continual improvement/development even though this model is no longer manufactured?
Campaigns ceased I believe in 2001 - I was told when I bought mine that as a 2002 car all the updates etc were built in to my car at the factory. This could be wrong but as far as I know it is the case.
TUS 373 said:
Annual servicing (regardless of low mileage) and an annual warranty look like they will cost about £2400 together. Add insurance of £600 and I'm upto £3000. Depreciation? Well I get the impression that this has begun to slow down, but then there is this pre- and post 2001 model argument and newer 4200 coming down the line. I guess that I can expect to lose about £5K as soon as money changes hands.
Generally, my fun car mileage has got down to the 3,000 miles per year mark. Therefore I'm spending, potentially, £8,000 for 3,000 Maser miles. That is a scary thought. So I'd like to ask - is this realistic or pessimistic in your collective views? And is it so bad to buy outside of the Maserati dealer network so long as a car has the uptodate and full Maser Service History and Warranty?
It depends how you look at your maths.
If you buy from a dealer (official), you should get a 12 month warranty and a service for the money you pay for the new car so you can knock off £2400 from your first year. If you get rid after 2 years, you've only had the one service and warranty.
I'm not sure but I think the 30k service is the £1200 one - others on here are more experienced than me on that one.
Also, you don't tend to pay the dealer the ticket price. Realistically, I got 2 - 3K off, depending how you want to look at the part ex.
Then - do more than 3k miles and you're quids in. (You won't want to be doing 30 miles a week in a Mas!!)
my business partner had the 3200 acquired new from the then dealer in Kent( since gone )
Just out of the warranty the turbo housing broke and this cost £4500 inc labour. It then ran for another 3K miles ( 12K in total) before the cylinder head gasket went and in fairness marranello agreed to pay half the cost when it was taken up with Mass UK. This bill was for 8K.
the biggest shock however was selling it. The loss for 3 years and 12K of motoring was 33K.
Its a great interior, very quick, classy but the TOTAL ownership costs, now or later (when you sell it) are huge. Some dealers gave up with the F car franchise when they had all the masserati stuff pushed on them and thats why many dealers dislike the cars for PX
Just out of the warranty the turbo housing broke and this cost £4500 inc labour. It then ran for another 3K miles ( 12K in total) before the cylinder head gasket went and in fairness marranello agreed to pay half the cost when it was taken up with Mass UK. This bill was for 8K.
the biggest shock however was selling it. The loss for 3 years and 12K of motoring was 33K.
Its a great interior, very quick, classy but the TOTAL ownership costs, now or later (when you sell it) are huge. Some dealers gave up with the F car franchise when they had all the masserati stuff pushed on them and thats why many dealers dislike the cars for PX
For anyone still tempted by a 3200 after reading this thread here's something to consider, £21k with 2 days to go, no reserve ...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18308&item=2486089514&rd=1
Could be a bargain or the beginning of financial ruin depending on your luck! (I'm nothing to do with the car concerned before anyone asks).
Chris
>> Edited by chris_n on Thursday 5th August 20:20
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18308&item=2486089514&rd=1
Could be a bargain or the beginning of financial ruin depending on your luck! (I'm nothing to do with the car concerned before anyone asks).
Chris
>> Edited by chris_n on Thursday 5th August 20:20
355f said:
my business partner had the 3200 acquired new from the then dealer in Kent( since gone )
Just out of the warranty the turbo housing broke and this cost £4500 inc labour. It then ran for another 3K miles ( 12K in total) before the cylinder head gasket went and in fairness marranello agreed to pay half the cost when it was taken up with Mass UK. This bill was for 8K.
the biggest shock however was selling it. The loss for 3 years and 12K of motoring was 33K.
Its a great interior, very quick, classy but the TOTAL ownership costs, now or later (when you sell it) are huge. Some dealers gave up with the F car franchise when they had all the masserati stuff pushed on them and thats why many dealers dislike the cars for PX
Sorry about the turbos/head gaskets but they are known faults. £11k depreciation pa for any car like this is cheap! Similar to Mercs and Jags.
Mmmm, no bids what a shocker....
He'll have had trade bids on that at around £15K.
I actually do think that the prices dont reflect the actual value of the car. These cars arent known for problems with reliability (mine didn't actually break down it just developed niggles)and I dont think high mileage really does effect them either. The one thing I cant get over is that dealers charge a minimum £30K for one but then bid £15-20K on them to buy in. It seems to me that like TVR dealers they are shafting their own market by buying in cheap and selling expensive.......
He'll have had trade bids on that at around £15K.
I actually do think that the prices dont reflect the actual value of the car. These cars arent known for problems with reliability (mine didn't actually break down it just developed niggles)and I dont think high mileage really does effect them either. The one thing I cant get over is that dealers charge a minimum £30K for one but then bid £15-20K on them to buy in. It seems to me that like TVR dealers they are shafting their own market by buying in cheap and selling expensive.......
I dont think those facts are right Andrew. There are thousands of 330Ci BMWs sold every year and very few Masers so that doesn't ring true.
I had lots of calls on mine but no-one bid above £21K. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and I well remember your posts on here bemoaning the fact that yours wouldn't sell. It's a specialist and very small market and many people are frightened to death of maseratis.
I had lots of calls on mine but no-one bid above £21K. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and I well remember your posts on here bemoaning the fact that yours wouldn't sell. It's a specialist and very small market and many people are frightened to death of maseratis.
I think the difference between dealer ticket price and dealer offer price is not uncommon.
First up, you don't pay ticket. So the gap comes down from that.
Second up, you'll expect some manner of warranty.
Third up, on top of the warranty there's the "good will cover" you should get from an approved dealer, whereby they'll pay for just about anything to be fixed if it goes wrong.
With known problem areas on a car, they want to cover themselves. It's "insurance".
Your choice is to buy private, pocket the 10k and hope nothing goes pop!
M5s are very nice cars, but also very different to the Maser. You can't take the money with you, so why not take a chance? Get any car independently checked, pay a suitably low sum for it in the first place and see how it goes. If you don't like it, go to the M5 then.
Alt. why not see if you can rent one for a month? Or get a dealer to at least loan you one for a few days?
First up, you don't pay ticket. So the gap comes down from that.
Second up, you'll expect some manner of warranty.
Third up, on top of the warranty there's the "good will cover" you should get from an approved dealer, whereby they'll pay for just about anything to be fixed if it goes wrong.
With known problem areas on a car, they want to cover themselves. It's "insurance".
Your choice is to buy private, pocket the 10k and hope nothing goes pop!
M5s are very nice cars, but also very different to the Maser. You can't take the money with you, so why not take a chance? Get any car independently checked, pay a suitably low sum for it in the first place and see how it goes. If you don't like it, go to the M5 then.
Alt. why not see if you can rent one for a month? Or get a dealer to at least loan you one for a few days?
I just hate to see herd instinct. Life's about risk. The upside is huge grins and daring to be different. I have a feelin with Ferrari & Maserati Dealers being combined they have a tendancy to try and apply Ferrari Margins to the used cars.
Whilst I appreciate a Maserati is not a Volume car (and never will be), volumes/stock turn and hence Margin should be lower (especially in terms £x K on top of the dealers purchasing price) than Ferrari.
For Maserati to succed in the British Market they need to remove alot of this 'risk into the unknown' which is baltantly what the problem (as per this thread!)
People buying them (pariculary used) are used to the running costs of a £30-40k car, not a £150k one! They know the Maserati could well prove more expensive from the norm, but are not looking to bankrupt themselves.
Things we need to see...
1. More modest Margins.I would expect circa. £6k across a car purchased by a dealer for £30k ie £35950
2. Sounds like parts prices and supply need sorting
Its designed as an 'everyday' car enable people to use it as one!
3. Manafacturer input to help stabalise warranty cost to a realistic level (sensible parts prices would help!)
Just my thoughts as an appreciator of the Masser and someone involved in the Specialist car trade
Whilst I appreciate a Maserati is not a Volume car (and never will be), volumes/stock turn and hence Margin should be lower (especially in terms £x K on top of the dealers purchasing price) than Ferrari.
For Maserati to succed in the British Market they need to remove alot of this 'risk into the unknown' which is baltantly what the problem (as per this thread!)
People buying them (pariculary used) are used to the running costs of a £30-40k car, not a £150k one! They know the Maserati could well prove more expensive from the norm, but are not looking to bankrupt themselves.
Things we need to see...
1. More modest Margins.I would expect circa. £6k across a car purchased by a dealer for £30k ie £35950
2. Sounds like parts prices and supply need sorting
Its designed as an 'everyday' car enable people to use it as one!
3. Manafacturer input to help stabalise warranty cost to a realistic level (sensible parts prices would help!)
Just my thoughts as an appreciator of the Masser and someone involved in the Specialist car trade
If I didn't already have a 4200 I'd certainly consider a 3200 for 21K.
I think F/M dealers however don't want cars over 3 years old on thier forecourts - unless part of a trade-in, hence the low offers - They probably want to make £6K minimum on any sale so an for older Maserati which would retail at 27K this is a much bigger percentage of the value than say a 355 which retails at 60K.
I was at Marenello Egham yesterday and it is interesting how thier stock has changed since I was last there 4-5 months ago - especially considering they are losing the importers franchise in the next few months.
Last time there were 5-6 brand new 4200s and another 6-7 2nd hand - and 2 Porsches (plus a load of Ferraris obviously)
Yesterday there were 2 Quatroportes in the showroom, and 5 2nd hand 4200s all outside - there were however about 8 Porsches including 2 Cayennes.
There were no 3200s on either occasion.
I don't know what this proves....
However I return to a comment I made 3 pages ago that I'd never buy a Masser new but they are fantastic bargains 2nd hand.
I think F/M dealers however don't want cars over 3 years old on thier forecourts - unless part of a trade-in, hence the low offers - They probably want to make £6K minimum on any sale so an for older Maserati which would retail at 27K this is a much bigger percentage of the value than say a 355 which retails at 60K.
I was at Marenello Egham yesterday and it is interesting how thier stock has changed since I was last there 4-5 months ago - especially considering they are losing the importers franchise in the next few months.
Last time there were 5-6 brand new 4200s and another 6-7 2nd hand - and 2 Porsches (plus a load of Ferraris obviously)
Yesterday there were 2 Quatroportes in the showroom, and 5 2nd hand 4200s all outside - there were however about 8 Porsches including 2 Cayennes.
There were no 3200s on either occasion.
I don't know what this proves....
However I return to a comment I made 3 pages ago that I'd never buy a Masser new but they are fantastic bargains 2nd hand.
You can avoid depreciation by not selling your car. The Masser is a very well built bit of kit (At least mine is). If i had cash to bin i'd buy a brand new 4200 and keep it for at least 5 years. I, personnal am past the phase of buying a brand new car every year and intend to keep my 3200. I lost more than a 60k in 6 years by just jumping from car to car. So i intend to stick to my Masser for 4 years and i'm quids in. In my book it's heading towards a classic status. I would be happy to spend the next 10 years in what is a fun to drive GT. It is such a cool car and i'm chuffed to have one. It's a very undervalued mark.
Ferrari is pushing the brand a lot more and hence the prices are firming up, but im not in a rush to sell.
These sort of cars are not cheap to own Ferrari, Maserati, Porche, Lambo, TVR or Lotus. There all money pits and anyone who thinks there not is a bit daft :daft:. If your that fussed buy a diesle Lada/Skoda with a 3 year warrenty
Ferrari is pushing the brand a lot more and hence the prices are firming up, but im not in a rush to sell.
These sort of cars are not cheap to own Ferrari, Maserati, Porche, Lambo, TVR or Lotus. There all money pits and anyone who thinks there not is a bit daft :daft:. If your that fussed buy a diesle Lada/Skoda with a 3 year warrenty
chris_crossley said:
You can avoid depreciation by not selling your car. The Masser is a very well built bit of kit (At least mine is). If i had cash to bin i'd buy a brand new 4200 and keep it for at least 5 years. I, personnal am past the phase of buying a brand new car every year and intend to keep my 3200. I lost more than a 60k in 6 years by just jumping from car to car. So i intend to stick to my Masser for 4 years and i'm quids in. In my book it's heading towards a classic status. I would be happy to spend the next 10 years in what is a fun to drive GT. It is such a cool car and i'm chuffed to have one. It's a very undervalued mark.
Ferrari is pushing the brand a lot more and hence the prices are firming up, but im not in a rush to sell.
These sort of cars are not cheap to own Ferrari, Maserati, Porche, Lambo, TVR or Lotus. There all money pits and anyone who thinks there not is a bit daft :daft:. If your that fussed buy a diesle Lada/Skoda with a 3 year warrenty
I agree with everything Chris has put.
When I first came on here a couple of month's back, and asked if a Mas was worth having I got nothing but praise for the car. I'd been told all sorts of horror stories. Had I read this thread I wouldn't now be driving a dream of a car.
I still love getting into it each morning and night, to and from work, knowing that a) It drives brilliantly though it's hard to keep below 100 mph on a dual carriageway. b) Everybody and his brother turns to look at it. and c) I could go through the alphabet giving reasons why, when I asked about 3200's, I'm glad the response was positive.
Don't get me wrong, none of us want Flasher's experience with any car, but the power, design and just "big-fixed-grin-ness" of the 3200 is worth paying a bit more for.
bennno said:
singh said:
It's hardly a conclusive conclusion but my brother in law, proud owner of a 03 996 c4 drove my car at the weekend and is now looking for a 4200, draw whatever conclusions you wish.
Having driven his car I can sincerely say that I would do the same.
so you want a 996 and he wants a Maser?
No Benno, 'do the same' i.e. be looking for a 4200 to replace the porker supposing I owned one.
Admittedly poorly phrased.
In reality I doubt very much he will change his car even though he was hugely impressed by the masser, he isn't really a 'car person' and admits he bought the porsche because he wanted a sports car, a few of his friends owned one and could vouch for it and it was for him, the obvious choice.
>> Edited by singh on Friday 6th August 14:02
I bought my 2001 3200GT Manual from new and kept it for 2.5 years. The only regret I have is the depreciation, which cost 28K in that time. As a car it is fabulous. Mine wase very reliable and all minor issues (Mainly electrical) were dealt with promptly and efficiently. Mine was under the fixed priced servicing option so the running cost were IMO cheap.
The car has quite the best interior of any car on the road and is one of the most fun and entertaining car you can buy, especially one with 4 seats.
10 months after selling it I am now hankering after another. But I would not buy a car like that from new, I would buy from a main dealer and I would pay for a warranty.
Dont let adverse comment put you off as if you buy well it is a great car.
>> Edited by mal on Friday 6th August 14:02
The car has quite the best interior of any car on the road and is one of the most fun and entertaining car you can buy, especially one with 4 seats.
10 months after selling it I am now hankering after another. But I would not buy a car like that from new, I would buy from a main dealer and I would pay for a warranty.
Dont let adverse comment put you off as if you buy well it is a great car.
>> Edited by mal on Friday 6th August 14:02
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