Countach vs Boxer vs 911 Turbo - 1976
Discussion
I recall that article so well. It was difficult to get CAR in Glasgow back then and I could only buy it at Queen St station or Glasgow central. I had been checking the news stands for days to see if a new edition was coming out and eventually got this one about lunch time.
I went back to my macro economics lecture and just read it and re read bits of it! I recall trying to get my friends excited about it and showing them the pics. Sadly they did not have petrol in their veins nor understood the cars.
I must have re read that again and again!
It was certainly CAR that inspired me to buy the QV and am glad that it did.
I recall LJK wrote for a US magazine about the early 80's. Could have been Road & Track? Anyway, he went over board with 'longer words'. After his first piece the next months letters column was simply full of furious readers complaining that he wasn't writing in English!
Happy days! I always hoped that James May of Top Gear would try to be the next LJK. I have spoken to a few motoring journalists, and believe , that like me they consider LJK to have been the greatest motoring journalist ever!
Paul
I went back to my macro economics lecture and just read it and re read bits of it! I recall trying to get my friends excited about it and showing them the pics. Sadly they did not have petrol in their veins nor understood the cars.
I must have re read that again and again!
It was certainly CAR that inspired me to buy the QV and am glad that it did.
I recall LJK wrote for a US magazine about the early 80's. Could have been Road & Track? Anyway, he went over board with 'longer words'. After his first piece the next months letters column was simply full of furious readers complaining that he wasn't writing in English!
Happy days! I always hoped that James May of Top Gear would try to be the next LJK. I have spoken to a few motoring journalists, and believe , that like me they consider LJK to have been the greatest motoring journalist ever!
Paul
AdvocatusD said:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results...
Superb article, just superb.
Any owners of the cars above care to comment?
I've been Countach day dreaming for most of this morning! Very interested to read that it handles beautifully, I was under the impression that it really didn't.
D...do you actually get any work done in amongst car dreaming? Superb article, just superb.
Any owners of the cars above care to comment?
I've been Countach day dreaming for most of this morning! Very interested to read that it handles beautifully, I was under the impression that it really didn't.
i own a countach , and i used to have an early porche turbo think mine was a 3.2 motor and the sort of upgraded one, and i have driven a few boxers. For me, so dont get all upsett! the 911 is an ugly car and i question the aesthetic sensibilities of those that own them. I bought mine sort of by defalt as the owner was a wealthy friend of mine and he bought it new and rarely used it as he prefered his Lexus, a sort of Japanese Merc clone. I do understand his feelings and that gives u some perspective. It was a horrible car. I question the shape and when u got in the interior, like all 911s, was dull. If u are into sports cars i think u should feel a car is special and driving it an occasion and it should be worth a look back as u walk to the coffee bar. The Porche never felt safe to drive as the front was so light and it was so difficult to know what was going on with the tyres and it made driving it scary. It did have one sort of redeeming feature but i would call it a pary trick and that was when u had friends in the car and u eventully got it on boost, all hell broke loose and its straight line acceleration for those days was impressive. So much so that its been the only car i have owned that my wife was sick in , which i think confirms her good taste in men and cars. But i am sure an american hot rod would have given u ,then, the same feel for a lot less money and better looks , as at least they are distinctive and someone has thought about the design even if it was over a six pack of Bud and some of that Saunders blokes chicken.
The Boxer is a great Ferrari with a great engine and really good looks and it everything the Porche was not. I do however question the pinch behind the front wheel arches which always seems too severe to me and can be a problem at a number of angles as the front looks disconected from the rest of the car. The 308 is a far more cohearant shape ( i cant spell sorry) and a beauty by comparison and then the 288 GTO was just sublime. But a Boxer is pretty and if you are not looking head on , its got good lines and looks like a supercar should. the interior was exotic for its time and even now is interesting if these days a little dated but it had a lot of ferrari pointers and the seats i have always liked although i know some complain about them. But in short it s good looking car wiht a good interior and a simply fabulous engine which loves to rev with power for its day aplenty and the low down torque is not too bad and on song it is Pavarotti. I know some question the on limits roadholding re centre of gravity but for a normal non racing driver like me, i did not ever get there even though i drove it round a racing track as fast as i dare.
AS for the Countach i would be the first to say its not a pretty car but doesn't it have stunning lines and presense? I have my car parked next to my desk and have done so for most of 20 years and never got bored of it. That mix of one curved line with hard edges is now back in fashion and i am regulary stopped at petrol stations by people who want to know if its the new one. the interior is not its best feature although the seats are great and i think 2 weeks ago i achieved a Countach WOrld record as i drove it for 10 hours in one day. The dash and instuments are no great shake but overall it is a masterly package and we have used it for long touring trips. OK its something of a pig to drive and it can be exhausting and the engine is a work of art. The sound and feel is unobtainable in anything else and modern supercar with tuned exhausts are but a poor copy of the real thing. to get so much power out of a relativey small engine useing 70 technology and know how means , like so many italian cars of the ere u do have to work it and use all the revs so its not ideal for a sunday jaunt after a late night out. For me, and again i am not a racing driver, the handling is great and the feel and feedback from the steering wheel is only bettered by a frog eye sprite and a lesson in how much we have lost with power assistance. I do not have a problem with the brakes although they are not up to modern standards and i always leave a extra gap on motorways.
In summery my porche ownership is an episode in my life i try hard to forget and after all these years seeing one on the road still makes me ponder my fellow man along with celeb cuture and teh need to update facebook with your boring life and share uninteresting snipets of nothingness with "friends"
The boxer is a stunnign classic ferrari with a great engine and i still thnk undervalued and i would like to have one in my garage and on a long trip or for almost everyday use it is the best car here. Its so well rounded with exotic car looks somewhat timeless and so much less aggressive than a modern supercar and all the better for it.
The Countach sits on a pedistal and is just so iconic esp in LP400 guise. Its a stunner in so many ways and has a less flexible engine than the boxer but really delivers when needed and is still fast even by todays standards but it is really a sunday car only and can be hard work unless u are in the mood to have all your worries blasted away. It thrills in so many ways and was way ahead of ferrari at the time and was more technologically advanced.
Porche is a cold cup of tea with powdered milk at a motorway service station, u just know u shouldnt have stopped. Ferrari a great cuppa of Yorkshire with fresh full cream milk at Bettys, sooo satisfying. The Countach is a cut glass and silver tumbler of black dynamite tea at the Ritz. Unbelieveable experience but u wouldnt want to every day.
The Boxer is a great Ferrari with a great engine and really good looks and it everything the Porche was not. I do however question the pinch behind the front wheel arches which always seems too severe to me and can be a problem at a number of angles as the front looks disconected from the rest of the car. The 308 is a far more cohearant shape ( i cant spell sorry) and a beauty by comparison and then the 288 GTO was just sublime. But a Boxer is pretty and if you are not looking head on , its got good lines and looks like a supercar should. the interior was exotic for its time and even now is interesting if these days a little dated but it had a lot of ferrari pointers and the seats i have always liked although i know some complain about them. But in short it s good looking car wiht a good interior and a simply fabulous engine which loves to rev with power for its day aplenty and the low down torque is not too bad and on song it is Pavarotti. I know some question the on limits roadholding re centre of gravity but for a normal non racing driver like me, i did not ever get there even though i drove it round a racing track as fast as i dare.
AS for the Countach i would be the first to say its not a pretty car but doesn't it have stunning lines and presense? I have my car parked next to my desk and have done so for most of 20 years and never got bored of it. That mix of one curved line with hard edges is now back in fashion and i am regulary stopped at petrol stations by people who want to know if its the new one. the interior is not its best feature although the seats are great and i think 2 weeks ago i achieved a Countach WOrld record as i drove it for 10 hours in one day. The dash and instuments are no great shake but overall it is a masterly package and we have used it for long touring trips. OK its something of a pig to drive and it can be exhausting and the engine is a work of art. The sound and feel is unobtainable in anything else and modern supercar with tuned exhausts are but a poor copy of the real thing. to get so much power out of a relativey small engine useing 70 technology and know how means , like so many italian cars of the ere u do have to work it and use all the revs so its not ideal for a sunday jaunt after a late night out. For me, and again i am not a racing driver, the handling is great and the feel and feedback from the steering wheel is only bettered by a frog eye sprite and a lesson in how much we have lost with power assistance. I do not have a problem with the brakes although they are not up to modern standards and i always leave a extra gap on motorways.
In summery my porche ownership is an episode in my life i try hard to forget and after all these years seeing one on the road still makes me ponder my fellow man along with celeb cuture and teh need to update facebook with your boring life and share uninteresting snipets of nothingness with "friends"
The boxer is a stunnign classic ferrari with a great engine and i still thnk undervalued and i would like to have one in my garage and on a long trip or for almost everyday use it is the best car here. Its so well rounded with exotic car looks somewhat timeless and so much less aggressive than a modern supercar and all the better for it.
The Countach sits on a pedistal and is just so iconic esp in LP400 guise. Its a stunner in so many ways and has a less flexible engine than the boxer but really delivers when needed and is still fast even by todays standards but it is really a sunday car only and can be hard work unless u are in the mood to have all your worries blasted away. It thrills in so many ways and was way ahead of ferrari at the time and was more technologically advanced.
Porche is a cold cup of tea with powdered milk at a motorway service station, u just know u shouldnt have stopped. Ferrari a great cuppa of Yorkshire with fresh full cream milk at Bettys, sooo satisfying. The Countach is a cut glass and silver tumbler of black dynamite tea at the Ritz. Unbelieveable experience but u wouldnt want to every day.
Edited by orangeLP400 on Wednesday 3rd October 16:25
i feel thoroughly privileged to have owned my 88 1/2 countach for the last 12 years
i think it needs to be appreciated on 2 levels:
1) that stunning shape, and what has gone on underneath that astonishing skin--- an engine that has its origins in 1960's F1 design principles/ a south-north orientated engine gearbox layout/ hand -beaten aluminium body-work/ remarkable materials used in the cars --esp the very early cars/ the reknowned engineers involved in its design and development: stanzani. dallara.alfieri. wallace.balboni. biocchi
2) the driving experience
i have not taken my car on track, so can only comment on what it is like on public roads
the first thing to say , is that the countach requires you to bend (literally and metaphorically )to it
it takes ages to adapt to it, but to enjoy it , you need to be prepared to do so
it does not feel fast (unless you really thrash it , which i am not prepared to do to a 25 year old car) until you get past ,say 60 mph, and then it begins to show its teeth
at higher speeds , it really feels and probably is, very fast indeed
the very first year i got it, i had it serviced , and had new tyres put on it , and on the continent the speedo was reading round 190( at that speed the countach's speedo needle swings about more than a little, and you really dont have the time or space to stare at it ), with the car still pulling , when i ran out of bottle
i did not feel that the car felt particularly stable at that speed(on a really nice flat well surfaced stretch of 4 lane continental motorway at 5.30 am on a dry july morning)
this contrasts with contemporary magazine reports
it was either loris or valentino who told me some months later that these cars at high speed respond quite vigourously to any slight imperfection or adverse camber of the road
the view out of the car ,other than straight ahead, is in my opinion awful
the brakes are the weakest point of the car , in my opinion
parking is a nightmare-----you really dont want to kerb those almost unobtinable wheels
the grip in the dry is very good
in the wet the car can very easily understeer or oversteer----again you dont want to be too brave if it is your pride and joy
i have always felt that the weight of the steering and the clutch , at least on my car , is juat perfect for this type and vintage of car.
( And i say this having driven my car for over 12 hours within a 24 hour cycle on a number of occassions)
after some internal debate , i have gone back to my original gut instinct----that adding power-steering to these cars is sacrilege(why not just buy a diablo)-----although this firm conviction may change if i am lucky enough to still own my car when i am 20 years older
these are not every day cars
and for those high days and holy days , you want something that feels and is different
i dont use my countach in cities if i can avoid it at all
each journey is pre-planned , and if the route is not suitable , then another car is taken
as i said earlier, it is you that has to bend to the countach
i think it needs to be appreciated on 2 levels:
1) that stunning shape, and what has gone on underneath that astonishing skin--- an engine that has its origins in 1960's F1 design principles/ a south-north orientated engine gearbox layout/ hand -beaten aluminium body-work/ remarkable materials used in the cars --esp the very early cars/ the reknowned engineers involved in its design and development: stanzani. dallara.alfieri. wallace.balboni. biocchi
2) the driving experience
i have not taken my car on track, so can only comment on what it is like on public roads
the first thing to say , is that the countach requires you to bend (literally and metaphorically )to it
it takes ages to adapt to it, but to enjoy it , you need to be prepared to do so
it does not feel fast (unless you really thrash it , which i am not prepared to do to a 25 year old car) until you get past ,say 60 mph, and then it begins to show its teeth
at higher speeds , it really feels and probably is, very fast indeed
the very first year i got it, i had it serviced , and had new tyres put on it , and on the continent the speedo was reading round 190( at that speed the countach's speedo needle swings about more than a little, and you really dont have the time or space to stare at it ), with the car still pulling , when i ran out of bottle
i did not feel that the car felt particularly stable at that speed(on a really nice flat well surfaced stretch of 4 lane continental motorway at 5.30 am on a dry july morning)
this contrasts with contemporary magazine reports
it was either loris or valentino who told me some months later that these cars at high speed respond quite vigourously to any slight imperfection or adverse camber of the road
the view out of the car ,other than straight ahead, is in my opinion awful
the brakes are the weakest point of the car , in my opinion
parking is a nightmare-----you really dont want to kerb those almost unobtinable wheels
the grip in the dry is very good
in the wet the car can very easily understeer or oversteer----again you dont want to be too brave if it is your pride and joy
i have always felt that the weight of the steering and the clutch , at least on my car , is juat perfect for this type and vintage of car.
( And i say this having driven my car for over 12 hours within a 24 hour cycle on a number of occassions)
after some internal debate , i have gone back to my original gut instinct----that adding power-steering to these cars is sacrilege(why not just buy a diablo)-----although this firm conviction may change if i am lucky enough to still own my car when i am 20 years older
these are not every day cars
and for those high days and holy days , you want something that feels and is different
i dont use my countach in cities if i can avoid it at all
each journey is pre-planned , and if the route is not suitable , then another car is taken
as i said earlier, it is you that has to bend to the countach
Thanks to all of you for some wonderful posts.
Not so long ago (ten years maybe), I would see the odd Countach for sale at circa £40,000.
Prices seems to have moved on a little since then to say the least. What does one expect to pay for a 500/5000S, QV or LP400 these days? Is the maintenance fairly high? I suspect labour is, but parts might not be.
I had a Countach pedalcar as a kid, which I used well into my early teens by sitting on the "boot" instead of the tiny seats (it was meant for a 6 year old I think!) and setting off down a very steep hill on the property! Only way to stop the car was stamping on a pedal which would be going nuts on its own as the car sped down...
If I release my Zagato from the stable, it could only be replaced with another classic - Countach always a possibility!
Not so long ago (ten years maybe), I would see the odd Countach for sale at circa £40,000.
Prices seems to have moved on a little since then to say the least. What does one expect to pay for a 500/5000S, QV or LP400 these days? Is the maintenance fairly high? I suspect labour is, but parts might not be.
I had a Countach pedalcar as a kid, which I used well into my early teens by sitting on the "boot" instead of the tiny seats (it was meant for a 6 year old I think!) and setting off down a very steep hill on the property! Only way to stop the car was stamping on a pedal which would be going nuts on its own as the car sped down...
If I release my Zagato from the stable, it could only be replaced with another classic - Countach always a possibility!
advocatusd---i too had a 944 turbo---the earlier 220bhp model-----for 14 years , that lived alongside the countach
i still miss it terribly ----such a wonderful all-rounder
i had some really memorable drives in it , when the law of the land was more accepting of these cars
i hope you continue to enjoy yours
i still miss it terribly ----such a wonderful all-rounder
i had some really memorable drives in it , when the law of the land was more accepting of these cars
i hope you continue to enjoy yours
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