Diesel Gallardo!!!?
Discussion
DustyC said:It doesn't, as long as it doesn't say Diesel on it when filling up
Wan ers.....If Lambo or should I say Audi go this way then my cash will be still staying with Ferrari...Supercar Diesel my arse.....T.
Why does it concern you so much what pump you use when filling up?
danhay said:
I must admit, I don't think a diesel Supercar is a very good idea for 2 reasons.
Firstly, the sound. I've heard plenty of V8, V12 and V16 diesels, and none of them sounded pretty...though admittedly they were powering cement pumps!
Secondly, I don't think the power/torque characteristics suit a sports car. For me the idea is that the harder you push it the more you get. A diesel would give it's best too early then run out of puff just when things were getting interesting.
Still, I've nothing against them giving it a go.
YOU want to watch powerboat racing then the diesels win and they also sound great
danhay said:and right there you get to the crux of it! "just when" things were getting interesting? While you were waiting for things to get interesting the diesel was busy tearing chunks out of the tarmac, and its in the next county by now.
then run out of puff just when things were getting interesting.
I swear if you swapped the tacho face on a diesel with one marked 3000, 6000, 900, 12000 the most avid anto diesel nut would be marvelling at the way it pulled like a steam train right to the redline. They're only numbers!
What the hell difference does it make where the redline is? Has it not occurred to anyone that if the redline is only 4000 rpm vs 8000rpm for a petrol engine, then each 1000rpm increment covers twice the road speed range of the petrol engine?
Doesn't the prospect of a car which does 100mph at 2000rpm, 150mph at 3000rpm, and 200mph at 4000rpm - and covers each increment in a handful of seconds - sound sporty enough?
Having had a Golf TDI and a TVR Chimarea 500 at the same time I often marvelled at the way the power characteristics were so similar. They even revved about the same - though to be fair the revs in the Golf didn't hit a wall quite as hard as the TVR when you got to 5,500rpm. OK, so there wan't a comparison on quantity, but the "feel" of the power delivery was spookily similar.
The old saying "ain't no substitute for cubes" might not quite be right - there is, it just uses a different fuel.
I don't BELIEEEEEEVE IT!
Trying to justify things like that on here.
For your sports car/supercar thrill, which would you have taken - Golf TDI or TVR?
Answer honestly now.
I will wager you 100GBP that you can put whatever numbers you like, on the tacho of any production diesel you care to mention, cover up all the badges and I will still be able to tell you it's a diesel.
And give me a nice sounding diesel configuration (if such a thing exists) and then get the self same engineers to make it work with petrol. Let's see what it sounds like and let's see what it goes like.
Gimmick. Headline grabber. Misguided.
It doesn't matter how much you like caravans, sports and supercar development would be better served by shedding weight rather than dicking around diesel.
So there.
Trying to justify things like that on here.
For your sports car/supercar thrill, which would you have taken - Golf TDI or TVR?
Answer honestly now.
I will wager you 100GBP that you can put whatever numbers you like, on the tacho of any production diesel you care to mention, cover up all the badges and I will still be able to tell you it's a diesel.
And give me a nice sounding diesel configuration (if such a thing exists) and then get the self same engineers to make it work with petrol. Let's see what it sounds like and let's see what it goes like.
Gimmick. Headline grabber. Misguided.
It doesn't matter how much you like caravans, sports and supercar development would be better served by shedding weight rather than dicking around diesel.
So there. One of the nice things that make a sportscar a sportscar is a rough sounding engine with enough agressive bite just at firing up . . . I'm sure a diesel can give impressive performance but it'll never ever deliver a soundtrack in the same category like a 911 / 360 / Cerb / Viper / must I go on?
When I first heard a Guilia passing by - me 8 years old - I just knew there was something sporty going on and the thingy did a modest 30 in 3rd.
When I first heard a Guilia passing by - me 8 years old - I just knew there was something sporty going on and the thingy did a modest 30 in 3rd.
Murph's a gigolo 
Actually, Seatech marine diesels do happen to sound rather nice in the back of a Class One Offshore powerboat (I have some video Murph, be happy to play it to you). But I can't see anyone shoehorning one of these monsters into the back of a Supercar and besides, the equivalent marine Lambo engines sound even better (when they run for long enough, that is!)
Actually, Seatech marine diesels do happen to sound rather nice in the back of a Class One Offshore powerboat (I have some video Murph, be happy to play it to you). But I can't see anyone shoehorning one of these monsters into the back of a Supercar and besides, the equivalent marine Lambo engines sound even better (when they run for long enough, that is!)
Here's the Ricardo-Judd v10 diesel. More info 
Interesting article on performance diesels here, along with a Quicktime movie of the worlds fastest pickup Shame the soundtrack is overlaid with naff music, but the snippet at the start sounds pretty good to me!
Class-8-truck, pickup, nuff said . . .
I think we are talking approx. 300 - 500 hp diesel lump here. And then a sporty body to match. Is that a truck? :big no:
Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent blokes.
Victor Meldrew: some want a different lump in their TVR. Would you put a 350 horse diesel in ur Chim? :big no:
I think we are talking approx. 300 - 500 hp diesel lump here. And then a sporty body to match. Is that a truck? :big no:
Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent blokes.
Victor Meldrew: some want a different lump in their TVR. Would you put a 350 horse diesel in ur Chim? :big no:
victormeldrew said:I totally understand where you're coming from, but I guess it's a question of taste. If you look at the torque produced by diesels vs petrol then they are often the same at the rear wheels because diesels are geared higher. This is why fuel consumption is so much better for diesels.
then run out of puff just when things were getting interesting.
and right there you get to the crux of it! "just when" things were getting interesting? While you were waiting for things to get interesting the diesel was busy tearing chunks out of the tarmac, and its in the next county by now.
I swear if you swapped the tacho face on a diesel with one marked 3000, 6000, 900, 12000 the most avid anto diesel nut would be marvelling at the way it pulled like a steam train right to the redline. They're only numbers!
What the hell difference does it make where the redline is? Has it not occurred to anyone that if the redline is only 4000 rpm vs 8000rpm for a petrol engine, then each 1000rpm increment covers twice the road speed range of the petrol engine?
Doesn't the prospect of a car which does 100mph at 2000rpm, 150mph at 3000rpm, and 200mph at 4000rpm - and covers each increment in a handful of seconds - sound sporty enough?
Having had a Golf TDI and a TVR Chimarea 500 at the same time I often marvelled at the way the power characteristics were so similar. They even revved about the same - though to be fair the revs in the Golf didn't hit a wall quite as hard as the TVR when you got to 5,500rpm. OK, so there wan't a comparison on quantity, but the "feel" of the power delivery was spookily similar.
The old saying "ain't no substitute for cubes" might not quite be right - there is, it just uses a different fuel.
Personally I prefer a more peaky power delivery, as long as you've got enough power low down too. Take for example my CBR1100, it's power delivery is peakier than a CBR600. But it's still got more low down oomph than a 600. It means you can pootle around at low rpm easily and when the mood takes you, just take it above 6000rpm for the full "Warp Speed Mr Sulu" effect.
murph7355 said:Thats quite a can of worms to be opening! To be honest I really didn't use the TVR much AT ALL for three years I had the TDI. It was always either being fettled or just too much hassle to get out of the garage. For most trips the Golf would have been quicker anyway.
Murph's a gigolo
Earning money that way would be preferable and less dodgy than the way I do!!
IT DustyC.
I still want to know if the TDI was used in preference to the TVR for sports driving
Sadly the scope for "sporty" driving is somewhat limited, both by family and by want of wanting to keep a licence.
I wonder why I hang on to the TVR to be honest (see, told you it was a can of worms!). Its really wasted as I don't get the opportunity to use it, and feel guilty if I do as three of us just don't fit in so someone gets to stay at home.
dinkel said:Bit pointless as the big V8 has similar power delivery to a diesel anyway - ain't you been listening at the back there? Now if I had a speed six that's another story!
Class-8-truck, pickup, nuff said . . .
I think we are talking approx. 300 - 500 hp diesel lump here. And then a sporty body to match. Is that a truck? :big no:
Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent blokes.
Victor Meldrew: some want a different lump in their TVR. Would you put a 350 horse diesel in ur Chim? :big no:
[quote=danhay]Personally I prefer a more peaky power delivery, as long as you've got enough power low down too. Take for example my CBR1100, it's power delivery is peakier than a CBR600. But it's still got more low down oomph than a 600. It means you can pootle around at low rpm easily and when the mood takes you, just take it above 6000rpm for the full "Warp Speed Mr Sulu" effect.[/danhay]Yup, I guess its down to personal preference. Personally I was always a stroker fan as a biker, as I preferred a flexible torquey engine to a revvy screamer.
(Did you read that right? You betcha. A CB250N revved way higher than an RD250 and has much less torque, and power as it happens; a GT750 Kettle mashed the GS750 for torque and only revved to 7000, if that. It's a myth that two strokes have less torque than four).
I've always since had a preference for big engines; its just so much easier to let the torque waft you along while you focus on the lines and braking points. Endlessly shifting cogs to keep in a narrow screaming powerband just doesn't do it for me. That got very old riding around on a FS1-E as a kid. I can afford a proper engine now with real power, so why play with toy ones?
(Did you read that right? You betcha. A CB250N revved way higher than an RD250 and has much less torque, and power as it happens; a GT750 Kettle mashed the GS750 for torque and only revved to 7000, if that. It's a myth that two strokes have less torque than four).
I've always since had a preference for big engines; its just so much easier to let the torque waft you along while you focus on the lines and braking points. Endlessly shifting cogs to keep in a narrow screaming powerband just doesn't do it for me. That got very old riding around on a FS1-E as a kid. I can afford a proper engine now with real power, so why play with toy ones?
victormeldrew said:
I wonder why I hang on to the TVR to be honest (see, told you it was a can of worms!). Its really wasted as I don't get the opportunity to use it, and feel guilty if I do as three of us just don't fit in so someone gets to stay at home.
Sorry Vic, didn't mean to.
Your Chim looks great with that front end.
I don't have a family as such (folks and a sister but no wifey and kids) so I can still be pretty selfish with my wheels. Many would say that's just me anyway and would be even if I had a harem and 20 kids
I think my advice, not that it's asked for, would be to either flog the Chim' and buy a cheaper toy for you to get very occasional adrenalin rushes with, or flog it and buy something the whole family can enjoy as an occasion.
In the former camp, something line an old, well worn in Caterham. Your kids will probably love it to bits, and the whole Caterham ownership thing is so much more than just the car (I've owned one since I was 25, so it's not all old farts with tweed caps and moustaches, although again I think some of my mates would beg to differ). Your wife will probably hate it, but will also probably be happy that it isn't going to get you into bother with busty 20yr old blondes too
In the latter camp, what about a Ferrari 456 (will need a bit more cash though, both to buy and run). Or a Mondial. Or something a bit mental like a Bentley Turbo. I'm sure I can think of a few others if I tried.
Think you need to purge the guilt and get back into the fun of motoring rather than counting the Texaco receipts. Otherwise it'll be the caravan forums for you my man, and "value holidays" on the south coast
I've just watched Christmas Carol on Japanese TV, so that's my version done for one year
Happy Christmas
dcw@pr said:
Unless the torque increase is worth it... then whats the point? Fuel economy... in a supercar?
Opening up the company car fleet market?
More fun than a Mondeo...
One more thing. All this talk of Lemans diesels (fantastic things as they are) but I thought people bought diesels for torque and fuel efficiency. What's the fuel efficiency of a diesel Le mans car? I wouldn't think anything generating 700hp is going to beat the equivalent pug 206d between at the pumps. And 309hp doesn't sound much cop, I could get similiar power to weight in a Touareg V10 and go off roading...
But the biggest drawback I feel with diesel isn't so much the power/capacity ratio or the limited rev range - it's simply the utter lack of throttle response.
Floor a diesel motor, forced induction or otherwise, and it will take ages to decide to move. Feather a petrol engine's throttle and it takes off.
You simply cannot have a sports car that has bad throttle response. By all means put one in a Cayenne. But a Gallardo?
D
Floor a diesel motor, forced induction or otherwise, and it will take ages to decide to move. Feather a petrol engine's throttle and it takes off.
You simply cannot have a sports car that has bad throttle response. By all means put one in a Cayenne. But a Gallardo?
D
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