Definition of a supercar
Discussion
Turbo cab said:
The equivalent era 993 Turbo and Gt2 would run rings around the Fezza in every sense of the word apart from looks.
lol in every sense apart from arguably the most important part of a supercar... oh other than the noise and err... yeah those suped up beetles aint winning that one either
Ive driven 964 and 996 turbo. Ive owned a 997 turbo (sold earlier this year). The turbos may be faster, but there is no comparison in terms of driver experience, looks and sound; I'd buy a 355 without hesitation. Its a combination of all those factors that make a supercar. Its a lack of that special feel that made me sell the 997 turbo this year, and what did I change for, a Ferrari!
X-Box said:
Cat among the pigeons.....
For me a supercar has to be purpose built and not a "range", so that excludes 911's and pretty much every "regular production" BMW and Merc.
Oh happy days
How does the vette fit in, the cooking versions ain't that super but the mad versions aren't?For me a supercar has to be purpose built and not a "range", so that excludes 911's and pretty much every "regular production" BMW and Merc.
Oh happy days
X-Box said:
Cat among the pigeons.....
For me a supercar has to be purpose built and not a "range", so that excludes 911's and pretty much every "regular production" BMW and Merc.
Oh happy days
The cat is nowhere near the pigeons.For me a supercar has to be purpose built and not a "range", so that excludes 911's and pretty much every "regular production" BMW and Merc.
Oh happy days
This is essentially the truth, a company either makes supercars or it doesn't. Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani, McLaren etc do, Porsche, BMW, Audi, Ford etc cannot. The manufacturer themselves is part of the mystique, saying I drive a Pagani says all you need to know, I'm afraid R8 drivers can't say "I drive an Audi" with the same penache. I'm not saying an R8 is in any way a bad car, it isn't, but it is not a supercar, sorry but that's just the way it is.
Oh and for the record before people start accusations of sour grapes, I would not class my Ultima GTR as a supercar either for the similar reasons, it's a kitcar.
Nano2nd said:
Turbo cab said:
The equivalent era 993 Turbo and Gt2 would run rings around the Fezza in every sense of the word apart from looks.
lol in every sense apart from arguably the most important part of a supercar... oh other than the noise and err... yeah those suped up beetles aint winning that one eitherSlickhillsy said:
Turbo cab said:
I think that most people are missing the point that a 355 falls into Classic car territory now.
IMO they were horrible to drive back then and still are now. They were not particular quick (equivalent M3 of the day would give one a good run for its money) and thats even more amplified today with the introduction of most modern super-cars.
The equivalent era 993 Turbo and Gt2 would run rings around the Fezza in every sense of the word apart from looks.
My god some people just aren't getting it... <sigh>IMO they were horrible to drive back then and still are now. They were not particular quick (equivalent M3 of the day would give one a good run for its money) and thats even more amplified today with the introduction of most modern super-cars.
The equivalent era 993 Turbo and Gt2 would run rings around the Fezza in every sense of the word apart from looks.
EarlierSlickhillsysaid said:
F355 - Definitely a supercar, of it's time in the same way a Miura / 348 / 250 ... / insert here.
Yea that would make it a Classic chap.What I should have said in my original post was IMO, I have no axe to grind as far as Porsche is concerned as I got rid earlier in the year.
EarlierSlickhillsysaid said:
F355 - Definitely a supercar, of it's time in the same way a Miura / 348 / 250 ... / insert here.
Sorry but not in my view. A supercar is the pinnacle. Something different. Standout. Like an F40. Or a Miura.
The F355 is a great sports car but not a super car.
I remember going to drive one at Maranellos when they’d just come out as I was interested.
I went in my Countach. The salesman asked me what I thought after the drive and I remember it just didn’t feel the same. There’s a spirit to a supercar. It’s alive. You just know.
I smiled as I drove home.
MKnight702 said:
The cat is nowhere near the pigeons.
This is essentially the truth, a company either makes supercars or it doesn't. Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani, McLaren etc do, Porsche, BMW, Audi, Ford etc cannot..
Ford GT ?This is essentially the truth, a company either makes supercars or it doesn't. Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani, McLaren etc do, Porsche, BMW, Audi, Ford etc cannot..
Goes in excess of 200 MPH and not a supercar ?.....
BMW M1 ?
"This BMW beats Italy's best supercars ".........front cover of Supercar classics mag BITD.
Porsche Carrera GT and 918 ?
Ferruccio said:
EarlierSlickhillsysaid said:
F355 - Definitely a supercar, of it's time in the same way a Miura / 348 / 250 ... / insert here.
Sorry but not in my view. A supercar is the pinnacle. Something different. Standout. Like an F40. Or a Miura.
The F355 is a great sports car but not a super car.
I remember going to drive one at Maranellos when they’d just come out as I was interested.
I went in my Countach. The salesman asked me what I thought after the drive and I remember it just didn’t feel the same. There’s a spirit to a supercar. It’s alive. You just know.
I smiled as I just made it home.
Going to call you on your definition of a supercar. Your mention of F40 F50 and alike are really HyperCars of their time, not supercars.
Luckily EVO have done all the thinking for us in 'the knowledge' section at rear of their monthly mag. I assume they have been through all the arguments?
For me a supercar 'usually' has to come from a manufacturer of supercars like McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani etc. They are usually not cars from mainstream manufacturers like BMW, Audi, Mercedes & Ford.
However there are exceptions when a crack team of highly trained engineers and designers lock themselves into a room or decide to go racing and come up with a GT40, XJ220. M1 or an NSX. There are also exceptions the other way like the California T (no offence meant).
Once they are given the 'supercar' moniker at birth then it stays forever. It can't be removed. Just because a Golf R is faster than a Miura does not mean the Miura is no longer a supercar. If that was a relevant factor then Tesla just killed all supercars of all time. Kate Moss & Naomi Cambell are both in their mid 40's but still supermodels. Cara Delevingne hasn't superseded them, they are supermodels forever and will be when they are very old, like Twiggy (apologies Twiggy if you are reading this).
Supercars have to have to have single mindedness to them, they must have a mid engine for the ultimate engaging performance, they must push boundaries of technology for performance reasons, the McLaren F1 being the ultimate in this respect. They must have the best engineering technology of the time, whether the highest specific output engine a carbon tub or fastest gearbox and not forgetting an item of jewelry or a party trick whether it be complex doors a central driving position or F1 parts / technology.
However the most important factor of all, do kids point and say 'wow'...Has to be kids, adults hide their emotions due to a multitude of complex conditioning. But kids....They are the best judges and the 'wow' factor needs to be there. I have seen a whole primary school of children being ushered from the school to the local church screaming, pointing, jumping and running when a McLaren 12C went past them, if a car can do that then its a 'super' car.
For me a supercar 'usually' has to come from a manufacturer of supercars like McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani etc. They are usually not cars from mainstream manufacturers like BMW, Audi, Mercedes & Ford.
However there are exceptions when a crack team of highly trained engineers and designers lock themselves into a room or decide to go racing and come up with a GT40, XJ220. M1 or an NSX. There are also exceptions the other way like the California T (no offence meant).
Once they are given the 'supercar' moniker at birth then it stays forever. It can't be removed. Just because a Golf R is faster than a Miura does not mean the Miura is no longer a supercar. If that was a relevant factor then Tesla just killed all supercars of all time. Kate Moss & Naomi Cambell are both in their mid 40's but still supermodels. Cara Delevingne hasn't superseded them, they are supermodels forever and will be when they are very old, like Twiggy (apologies Twiggy if you are reading this).
Supercars have to have to have single mindedness to them, they must have a mid engine for the ultimate engaging performance, they must push boundaries of technology for performance reasons, the McLaren F1 being the ultimate in this respect. They must have the best engineering technology of the time, whether the highest specific output engine a carbon tub or fastest gearbox and not forgetting an item of jewelry or a party trick whether it be complex doors a central driving position or F1 parts / technology.
However the most important factor of all, do kids point and say 'wow'...Has to be kids, adults hide their emotions due to a multitude of complex conditioning. But kids....They are the best judges and the 'wow' factor needs to be there. I have seen a whole primary school of children being ushered from the school to the local church screaming, pointing, jumping and running when a McLaren 12C went past them, if a car can do that then its a 'super' car.
Edited by Bispal on Friday 24th November 08:59
Bispal said:
However the most important factor of all, do kids point and say 'wow'...Has to be kids, adults hide their emotions due to a multitude of complex conditioning. But kids....They are the best judges and the 'wow' factor needs to be there. I have seen a whole primary school of children being ushered from the school to the local church screaming, pointing, jumping and running when a McLaren 12C went past them, if a car can do that then its a 'super' car.
By that reasoning this would be a supercar:
It, like a McLaren 12C, isn't a supercar IMO.
Slickhillsy said:
Ferruccio said:
EarlierSlickhillsysaid said:
F355 - Definitely a supercar, of it's time in the same way a Miura / 348 / 250 ... / insert here.
Sorry but not in my view. A supercar is the pinnacle. Something different. Standout. Like an F40. Or a Miura.
The F355 is a great sports car but not a super car.
I remember going to drive one at Maranellos when they’d just come out as I was interested.
I went in my Countach. The salesman asked me what I thought after the drive and I remember it just didn’t feel the same. There’s a spirit to a supercar. It’s alive. You just know.
I smiled as I just made it home.
Going to call you on your definition of a supercar. Your mention of F40 F50 and alike are really HyperCars of their time, not supercars.
It’s never not got me home.
It’s not complicated like modern cars; not much to go wrong.
These engines and gear boxes are strong.
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