Do Ferrari need to increase production?

[WCZ]

no.

ferrari will be releasing an SUV, they'll make that in larger quantities and make a st load of money

[Yipper]

Ferrari need to up their "quality", not "quantity".

Porsche has overtaken Ferrari on interior lushness. Lambo has overtaken Ferrari on exterior styling and engine noise. Lambo and Porsche have both overtaken Ferrari on handling.

Ferrari today rely way too much on their F1 halo and heritage hype. The actual quality of their cars now, if we're honest, is bordering on rubbish. For example, the new Portfofino, which will probably make up 20-30% of all Ferrari sales in 2019, sounds like a Golf R with a remap. It's shockingly bad for a £150-200k supercar.

[ralphrj]

hoegaardenruls said:

Behemoth said:

TTmonkey said:

does Ferrari really actually make significant profit from car manufacturer, or does all the real profit come from the billions in merchandising? I'd love to know.

Most margin comes from financing. Brand licenses pull in easy money, but I don't think it beats financing.

From what I've seen in the past, roughly 25-30% of revenue was coming from non-manufacturing activity which included F1 sponsorship, merchandising and branding.

As shares in Ferrari are publicly traded on the NYSE and Milan stock exchange they publish their results.

The latest figures are for the 9 months to 30/09/17 and show that:

€1,855m 72.0% of revenue comes from cars and spare parts
€292m 11.3% of revenue comes from selling engines to Maserati and leasing F1 engines to Sauber & Haas
€370m 14.4% of revenue comes from F1 sponsorship, FOM commerical revenue and merchandising
€60m 2.3% of revenue comes from financial services and Mugello racetrack

Those are revenue figures rather than margin (which naturally they don't disclose the split of) but EBIT (earnings before interest and tax) were €581m.

Therefore, financial services could at best only be 10% of profit.

The merchandising is lumped in with sponsorship and FOM revenue. It is reported that Ferrari will receive $180m from FOM in 2017 so converting to Euros and adjusting for 9 months of the years gives €108m of the €370m. If you assume that merchandising and sponsorship contribute roughly the same then merchandising would be worth €131m or 22.5% of profit.

[Durzel]

Yipper said:

Ferrari need to up their "quality", not "quantity".

Porsche has overtaken Ferrari on interior lushness. Lambo has overtaken Ferrari on exterior styling and engine noise. Lambo and Porsche have both overtaken Ferrari on handling.

Ferrari today rely way too much on their F1 halo and heritage hype. The actual quality of their cars now, if we're honest, is bordering on rubbish. For example, the new Portfofino, which will probably make up 20-30% of all Ferrari sales in 2019, sounds like a Golf R with a remap. It's shockingly bad for a £150-200k supercar.

Have you actually ever owned any of these cars? You speak as if from authority on the quality of interiors, etc.

[Behemoth]

hoegaardenruls said:

From what I've seen in the past, roughly 25-30% of revenue was coming from non-manufacturing activity which included F1 sponsorship, merchandising and branding.

You may well be right with that. I don't know how they corporately structure financing these days, maybe it worms its way to the Fiat pot & doesn't appear in the headline numbers.

[MDL111]

Yipper said:

Ferrari need to up their "quality", not "quantity".

Porsche has overtaken Ferrari on interior lushness. Lambo has overtaken Ferrari on exterior styling and engine noise. Lambo and Porsche have both overtaken Ferrari on handling.

Ferrari today rely way too much on their F1 halo and heritage hype. The actual quality of their cars now, if we're honest, is bordering on rubbish. For example, the new Portfofino, which will probably make up 20-30% of all Ferrari sales in 2019, sounds like a Golf R with a remap. It's shockingly bad for a £150-200k supercar.

I dont even have the latest models and interior quality seems perfectly fine and the styling is much better than Porsches or Lambos - that is personal preference though
Handling seems fine too and am pretty sure my FF handles better than a Panamera - looks better too and has a better engine, better sound etc (same obviously goes for the Lusso).
And a Golf R just sounds like a farty car like so many nowadays

[WDISMYL]

Ferrari don’t have a choice. They are now a publicly listed company, therefore they only have two choices. They either grow or they get bought out by another company that will make them grow. Both cases equate to many more cars being sold. You don’t get to list a company and then try to act like a bond. The market doesn’t work like that.

How Ferrari go about producing many more cars without devaluing the brand will be the key to their success or not.

[nickfrog]

Yipper said:

Ferrari need to up their "quality", not "quantity".

Porsche has overtaken Ferrari on interior lushness. Lambo has overtaken Ferrari on exterior styling and engine noise. Lambo and Porsche have both overtaken Ferrari on handling.

Ferrari today rely way too much on their F1 halo and heritage hype. The actual quality of their cars now, if we're honest, is bordering on rubbish. For example, the new Portfofino, which will probably make up 20-30% of all Ferrari sales in 2019, sounds like a Golf R with a remap. It's shockingly bad for a £150-200k supercar.

I am sure you know you sound like a complete moron so why do you keep doing it ? Pure masochism ? I am sure there are other sites for that.

[RamboLambo]

Yipper said:

Ferrari need to up their "quality", not "quantity".

Porsche has overtaken Ferrari on interior lushness. Lambo has overtaken Ferrari on exterior styling and engine noise. Lambo and Porsche have both overtaken Ferrari on handling.

Ferrari today rely way too much on their F1 halo and heritage hype. The actual quality of their cars now, if we're honest, is bordering on rubbish. For example, the new Portfofino, which will probably make up 20-30% of all Ferrari sales in 2019, sounds like a Golf R with a remap. It's shockingly bad for a £150-200k supercar.

I'm with Yapper on this occasion. Was a big Ferrari fanboy and brought up on them. 1st supercar was/is the F355 GTS which I will never sell. Had 3 others since but have to say I'm very disappointed with the current offerings and going head to head with McLaren down the turbocharging route has made me lose the love currently. If I want a turbocharged car I will buy the better McLaren, if I want a big naturally aspirated car I will buy the Lambo.

If I was to buy a garage queen as an investment I might consider a Ferrari but its not about that for me, I'd rather drive the damn things.

Time to up your game maranello

[ralphrj]

WDISMYL said:

Ferrari don’t have a choice. They are now a publicly listed company, therefore they only have two choices. They either grow or they get bought out by another company that will make them grow.

As far as I can recall only a small minority (10%) of the shares are listed. No-one would be able to takeover Ferrari just by buying the publicly traded element.

[WDISMYL]

True. At the moment. But greed usually wins the day.

I doubt Ferrari will be recognisable in 15 years from now.

[MDL111]

RamboLambo said:

Yipper said:

Ferrari need to up their "quality", not "quantity".

Porsche has overtaken Ferrari on interior lushness. Lambo has overtaken Ferrari on exterior styling and engine noise. Lambo and Porsche have both overtaken Ferrari on handling.

Ferrari today rely way too much on their F1 halo and heritage hype. The actual quality of their cars now, if we're honest, is bordering on rubbish. For example, the new Portfofino, which will probably make up 20-30% of all Ferrari sales in 2019, sounds like a Golf R with a remap. It's shockingly bad for a £150-200k supercar.

I'm with Yapper on this occasion. Was a big Ferrari fanboy and brought up on them. 1st supercar was/is the F355 GTS which I will never sell. Had 3 others since but have to say I'm very disappointed with the current offerings and going head to head with McLaren down the turbocharging route has made me lose the love currently. If I want a turbocharged car I will buy the better McLaren, if I want a big naturally aspirated car I will buy the Lambo.

If I was to buy a garage queen as an investment I might consider a Ferrari but its not about that for me, I'd rather drive the damn things.

Time to up your game maranello

I get your point on the 720 vs 488 as McLaren seems to have gotten the design right and it does not look as horrible anymore as the 650 (although the lights are certainly not easy to get used to) and the 488 does seem less exciting. But I would not cross shop a 812 or Lusso and Aventador - not really the same type of car imo

And you can drive your Ferrari - it will still lose less value than the McLaren if that’s what you are concerned about ....

[anonymous-user]

Yipper said:

Ferrari need to up their "quality", not "quantity".

Same can be said about your posts!

You post far too much and all (impossible to read all of it, but an educated guess) is utter shyte..


Ferrari sell a dream. If you want a new Ferrari nothing else will do. Compare that to a Porsche - you could easily be swayed by something else - Aston/Maserati etc. Remember Ferrari sell a lot of merchandise other than cars too.

[The Surveyor]

Yipper said:

Ferrari need to up their "quality", not "quantity".

......

Ferrari have never been know for quality, their cars are perfectly satisfactory but have never been bought on the grounds of superior quality below the gloss and soft leather.

Back in the 60's other marquee had much better quality control and Ferrari were verging on the shabby compared to others, Maserati were much superior for example. It didn't matter because Ferrair sold on their racing pedigree, not as a luxury brand. Also, we're spoilt these days by seeing 100 point restored cars which are infinitely better than they were in period.

Now, the Ferrari product meets its brief, they've been building them for long enough to know what their customers are looking for.

The worry isnt production numbers of their sports cars, it'll be whether their planned SUV dilutes that brand identity like Lamborghini.

[AndStilliRise]

The Surveyor said:

Ferrari have never been know for quality, their cars are perfectly satisfactory but have never been bought on the grounds of superior quality below the gloss and soft leather.

Back in the 60's other marquee had much better quality control and Ferrari were verging on the shabby compared to others, Maserati were much superior for example. It didn't matter because Ferrair sold on their racing pedigree, not as a luxury brand. Also, we're spoilt these days by seeing 100 point restored cars which are infinitely better than they were in period.

Now, the Ferrari product meets its brief, they've been building them for long enough to know what their customers are looking for.

The worry isnt production numbers of their sports cars, it'll be whether their planned SUV dilutes that brand identity like Lamborghini.

It's a good point, however if every other manufacturer is also producing a SUV it won't harm the brand. Porsche fans were the same IIRC.

[av185]

P R N D said:

Ferrari sell a dream. If you want a new Ferrari nothing else will do. Compare that to a Porsche - you could easily be swayed by something else - Aston/Maserati etc.

Nah.

Aston or Maserati? Laughable.

Nothing comes close to this.

Except perhaps a La Ferrari.

[williamp]

WDISMYL said:

True. At the moment. But greed usually wins the day.

I doubt Ferrari will be recognisable in 15 years from now.

People were saying that 30 years ago when enzo died. It is abrand above all else, connected stronyl with desirable cars and motor sport. It will survive and thrive. But if may be the only bit of the fiat empire to do so..

[RamboLambo]

av185 said:

Nah.

Aston or Maserati? Laughable.

Nothing comes close to this.

Except perhaps a La Ferrari.

Is that the new ring record holder at £575,000 ?
Makes the Previous record holder Lamborghini Huracan Performante seem an absolute steal at sub £300k especially if its the last N/a V10 lambo

[av185]

RamboLambo said:

av185 said:

Nah.

Aston or Maserati? Laughable.

Nothing comes close to this.

Except perhaps a La Ferrari.

Is that the new ring record holder at £575,000 ?
Makes the Previous record holder Lamborghini Huracan Performante seem an absolute steal at sub £300k especially if its the last N/a V10 lambo

Agree the Performante is a great package at the money.

Thing is the GT2 RS is even better value just £217k new.

£575k is the flipped price used. Reflects how good the market thinks it is I guess.

[LIVENT]

I have never been a massive Ferrari fan, when I was a kid I wanted a Lamborghini or McLaren F1.

I sold one of my businesses and decided it was time to buy myself a present and a new car.

I went around all the dealers: McLaren, Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini and Ferrari, sat in the cars, and drove them. I then booked an experience day and drove some of them on the track.

I am not taking special editions and I didn't drive a 720, it's was a 570s and a 650s on track.

My favourite: The Ferrari, the sound, the look the interior. For me it was the whole package.

The Lamborghini Hurrican would have been my 2nd choice.

So I walked into my local Ferrari dealer 2 months later and put a deposit down on a 488gtb. It's been almost 12 months and my car is in production.

In terms of waiting, as a new customer I don't think 12 months is too long. Had I wanted a spider it would have been a longer wait but I prefer the hard top.

Interestingly my brother (my business partner) came with me and he decided it's Aston Martin for him, although he is spending his money on a wedding first.

Non of the cars mentioned are bad cars, it comes down to personal preference. I went in with an open mind and picked my favourite.

As for numbers, Ferrari are very clever, they keep the residual values very high which keeps their dealer network happy and customers buying new cars happy. Instead of building more cars they just put the prices up by 7% that's 7% more pure profit and there will still be a long waiting list.