first supercar
Discussion
Durzel said:
Random stream of consciousness incoming...
Money comes and goes, time only goes.
If you can afford it, and it's not going to be an albatross around your neck and cause you or others unreasonable hardship, then do it.
Just don't think of it as an investment, or go in thinking "I can afford to lose £X but no more". Supercars depreciate, predictably and unpredictably, and they are more sensitive than other cars to market movements (interest rates, etc). You could make a small profit, break even, lose a few thousand, or lose tens of thousands if you don't do enough due diligence, or you're simply unlucky with maintenance and changes in the market & world of financing beyond your control.
Buying the right car is critical, too. If you buy from a main dealer, for peace of mind, you'll instantly lose the dealer buy/sell spread. That's the price of main dealer peace of mind. BUT - main dealer support does not necessarily guarantee trouble-free motoring. As said before my 458 came from a main dealer, but I had a £8k bill with a goodwill contribution for something that wasn't covered by Ferrari's own warranty.
Go in expecting to lose money, and make peace with that, because then you can enjoy it properly. Otherwise, don't do it at all.
Great advice. Money comes and goes, time only goes.
If you can afford it, and it's not going to be an albatross around your neck and cause you or others unreasonable hardship, then do it.
Just don't think of it as an investment, or go in thinking "I can afford to lose £X but no more". Supercars depreciate, predictably and unpredictably, and they are more sensitive than other cars to market movements (interest rates, etc). You could make a small profit, break even, lose a few thousand, or lose tens of thousands if you don't do enough due diligence, or you're simply unlucky with maintenance and changes in the market & world of financing beyond your control.
Buying the right car is critical, too. If you buy from a main dealer, for peace of mind, you'll instantly lose the dealer buy/sell spread. That's the price of main dealer peace of mind. BUT - main dealer support does not necessarily guarantee trouble-free motoring. As said before my 458 came from a main dealer, but I had a £8k bill with a goodwill contribution for something that wasn't covered by Ferrari's own warranty.
Go in expecting to lose money, and make peace with that, because then you can enjoy it properly. Otherwise, don't do it at all.
If you are spending more of your time thinking about the drawbacks (financial, security, maintenance etc) about supercar ownership than thinking of the positives then I would suggest the timing is not right.
Given all the other threads about prices softening across the supercar sector I thinking waiting may well be the best decision in this instance.
ghost83 said:
End of the day I was only asking about what’s the best to aim for! We’ve all been there at some point not everyone dove straight into supercars! We all have/had that dream
Rambo how old are you? When did you get into your first supercar? What was your last normal everyday car n when was it?
Same for anyone else in here?
I just put together a list of supercars for different budgets. Its an update of one I did for EVO Mag a few years ago. It is on karenable.comRambo how old are you? When did you get into your first supercar? What was your last normal everyday car n when was it?
Same for anyone else in here?
BoxerF50 said:
ghost83 said:
End of the day I was only asking about what’s the best to aim for! We’ve all been there at some point not everyone dove straight into supercars! We all have/had that dream
Rambo how old are you? When did you get into your first supercar? What was your last normal everyday car n when was it?
Same for anyone else in here?
I just put together a list of supercars for different budgets. Its an update of one I did for EVO Mag a few years ago. It is on karenable.comRambo how old are you? When did you get into your first supercar? What was your last normal everyday car n when was it?
Same for anyone else in here?
Agree on the Scuderia - at a (much) lower price point, it is a great car to drive even without a manual transmission
Hey OP, I'm a year older than you, so same generation. I was lucky enough to get into my first Ferrari, an F355 Spider in 2010 back when they were sensible money. While I'm not a Woppum etc, I've been round a few cars since. Random thoughts in no particular order which may or may not be useful....
All current supercars are massively overpriced IMO, with the exception of early Gallardos - I swear they've been at £70k+ since 2010. So in terms of a "sensible" supercar buy and not taking a bath if the market tanks, that's where my money would go
355 is beautiful but ruinously expensive to run properly (see my PH garage) - and that was after the previous owner had thrown £13k at it in one year (nothing major, just an accumulation of little things). As of a couple of years ago there were still people arguing you could average out at £1.5k a year - glad to see they're not about on this thread. And for god's sake don't ever buy a car off them. If it was me, I'd budget £3k a year minimum plus a £10k slush fund.
Would agree that a 360 is probably the sweet spot for Ferraris at the moment, but IMO, they're still overpriced by 50%. A decent 360 should be £50k.
I would personally only buy a manual supercar up to a 430. A good manual 'box will always be considered good. Whereas the single clutch F1 boxes weren't great to start with and by modern standards are dire. Had the joy of one in a Maser 4200 (same one as 360 basically) and it ruined the ownership experience. Some can live with them, some can't. The only exception I'd make to that is if you were mainly going to track the car (which'd be a very brave thing to do with an old, or indeed any, Fezza). Then, personally, I can take or leave a manual 'box. Yes learning to heel and toe is fun, but once you can do it, that's it - on track you're only ever doing 2 types of changes: fast upshift upshift or hard on the brakes heel and toe. Once you can do them you might as well flip a paddle. Driving a manual box on the road is much more nuanced and you do all kinds of changes from full bore fast as you can to the simple pleasure of rev matching a downshift as you roll up to a set of lights, and everything in between.
400bhp in a nasp engine is all you need for the road, anything else is too much to really enjoy. If a turbo lump like say the current Porsche 911 Carrera (370bhp), then even less is necessary. Don't die in a ditch over power figures for two reasons:
1) how the power is made is more important. My Caterham 620R makes max power at 7.7k which is also the redline, but more importantly, it makes max torque at 7.3k, which essentially means it has an absolutely MANIC top end, better than any supercar i've driven. On a slightly different tack, the motor in a current base 911 Carrera (370bhp) is much sweeter than the basically the same thing in the Carrera S (420bhp) - would take the former over the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. My 997 GTS had vaguely the "correct" amount of power (408bhp), but even though nasp it's mid range felt a bit too fat if i'm picking holes. Conversely my 993, with a few tweaks, is now 296bhp (as opposed to the standard 268) and she bloody LOVES to be thrashed....dirty little girl adores it. Doesn't have clever tech to fatten out the mid range and is all the better for it, drive her hard and you get rewarded.
2) the figures can be b
ks. 355s on paper make 380bhp....yeah right. Loved mine, but if I'd ever put it on a dyno i'd have expected to see 340 tops. Conversely my 550 felt every bit of 485bhp and more
Less is more - best, most rewarding road car I've ever driven is a Caterham 360R SV with a boggo 5sp box (far better on the road than my 620R for instance).Would love to have one, would be my go to car for Sunday blasts. Just a bit too niche for me to have in the garage...for the mo at least
I love Astons in theory, but based on friends who have owned them they make Ferraris look cheap to run. The only one I'd have is a V12 Vantage, on my bucket list to own at some point, but I fully expect to get a good reaming if/when I do it.
Make sure that you can comfortably pay for the ownership of the car you want to buy. Been said before, but don't overstretch yourself, the stress ruins things. I did it once: ran a 996 (aka chocolate) 911 while only earning £28k a year after a career change and spent 6 months bricking it until I started earning proper money again.
Do consider an R8 - I'm about to get into an early V10 coupe with a manual this weekend and at less than £60K it's a bargain when you consider the Pork available for the same money. V8s for even less make great sense too. At similar budget of £45k or so, a 987 Boxster Spider would be right on my list as well.
Left field choice might be a Lotus Exige Sport 350 (the one with the open linkage gear shift), by all accounts an epic car and looks the bks. Upgradeable from 350 to 450bhp for €10K if you fancy something modern Ferrari quick.
That's all I got for the moment, may add some more as/when it occurs.
All current supercars are massively overpriced IMO, with the exception of early Gallardos - I swear they've been at £70k+ since 2010. So in terms of a "sensible" supercar buy and not taking a bath if the market tanks, that's where my money would go
355 is beautiful but ruinously expensive to run properly (see my PH garage) - and that was after the previous owner had thrown £13k at it in one year (nothing major, just an accumulation of little things). As of a couple of years ago there were still people arguing you could average out at £1.5k a year - glad to see they're not about on this thread. And for god's sake don't ever buy a car off them. If it was me, I'd budget £3k a year minimum plus a £10k slush fund.
Would agree that a 360 is probably the sweet spot for Ferraris at the moment, but IMO, they're still overpriced by 50%. A decent 360 should be £50k.
I would personally only buy a manual supercar up to a 430. A good manual 'box will always be considered good. Whereas the single clutch F1 boxes weren't great to start with and by modern standards are dire. Had the joy of one in a Maser 4200 (same one as 360 basically) and it ruined the ownership experience. Some can live with them, some can't. The only exception I'd make to that is if you were mainly going to track the car (which'd be a very brave thing to do with an old, or indeed any, Fezza). Then, personally, I can take or leave a manual 'box. Yes learning to heel and toe is fun, but once you can do it, that's it - on track you're only ever doing 2 types of changes: fast upshift upshift or hard on the brakes heel and toe. Once you can do them you might as well flip a paddle. Driving a manual box on the road is much more nuanced and you do all kinds of changes from full bore fast as you can to the simple pleasure of rev matching a downshift as you roll up to a set of lights, and everything in between.
400bhp in a nasp engine is all you need for the road, anything else is too much to really enjoy. If a turbo lump like say the current Porsche 911 Carrera (370bhp), then even less is necessary. Don't die in a ditch over power figures for two reasons:
1) how the power is made is more important. My Caterham 620R makes max power at 7.7k which is also the redline, but more importantly, it makes max torque at 7.3k, which essentially means it has an absolutely MANIC top end, better than any supercar i've driven. On a slightly different tack, the motor in a current base 911 Carrera (370bhp) is much sweeter than the basically the same thing in the Carrera S (420bhp) - would take the former over the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. My 997 GTS had vaguely the "correct" amount of power (408bhp), but even though nasp it's mid range felt a bit too fat if i'm picking holes. Conversely my 993, with a few tweaks, is now 296bhp (as opposed to the standard 268) and she bloody LOVES to be thrashed....dirty little girl adores it. Doesn't have clever tech to fatten out the mid range and is all the better for it, drive her hard and you get rewarded.
2) the figures can be b
ks. 355s on paper make 380bhp....yeah right. Loved mine, but if I'd ever put it on a dyno i'd have expected to see 340 tops. Conversely my 550 felt every bit of 485bhp and moreLess is more - best, most rewarding road car I've ever driven is a Caterham 360R SV with a boggo 5sp box (far better on the road than my 620R for instance).Would love to have one, would be my go to car for Sunday blasts. Just a bit too niche for me to have in the garage...for the mo at least
I love Astons in theory, but based on friends who have owned them they make Ferraris look cheap to run. The only one I'd have is a V12 Vantage, on my bucket list to own at some point, but I fully expect to get a good reaming if/when I do it.
Make sure that you can comfortably pay for the ownership of the car you want to buy. Been said before, but don't overstretch yourself, the stress ruins things. I did it once: ran a 996 (aka chocolate) 911 while only earning £28k a year after a career change and spent 6 months bricking it until I started earning proper money again.
Do consider an R8 - I'm about to get into an early V10 coupe with a manual this weekend and at less than £60K it's a bargain when you consider the Pork available for the same money. V8s for even less make great sense too. At similar budget of £45k or so, a 987 Boxster Spider would be right on my list as well.
Left field choice might be a Lotus Exige Sport 350 (the one with the open linkage gear shift), by all accounts an epic car and looks the b
ks. Upgradeable from 350 to 450bhp for €10K if you fancy something modern Ferrari quick.That's all I got for the moment, may add some more as/when it occurs.
Edited by Mario149 on Saturday 2nd June 21:22
I bought my 991 GT3 when i was 29, I put 20000 miles on it in two years and sold it in April as I'm travelling a lot this year and won't use it and could do with freeing up some cash flow.
Also I want to buy a house later this year, so I wanted to be free from the finance for the 'affordability checks' even though the mortgage payments are less then my rent.
Have a 991.2 GTS on order for delivery next year for my 'semi' daily to replace my existing m3 (if i get a slot once the factory re opens) and will pick up an R8 in the winter sometime ready for next year as my next 'super car'
In terms of should I be buying these things, some would say no, some would say yes, I don't have any debts apart from my car, and they are always have equity in them. So if I do hit hard times, or an opportunity comes along I can always off load them. All I know, is that i don't regret buying my 991 GT3 at all, I had amazing road trips in it, and met some amazing friends because I owned it.
I miss not having a nice car at the minute, but about to drive to mongolia in a fiat panda with my girlfriend, so it's swings and roundabouts.
If you can afford it, without it impacting other areas of your life then go for it. And in terms of cheaper daily and supercar, or an audi rs3, cheaper daily and super car every day of the week. Daily driving is just boring. I had a golf r and now commute in my Passat, same interior really, so i don't notice any difference in my commute as there is too much traffic to exploit it.
If i wanted to mix it up I just commuted in my gt3. Also my Passat has done 55000 miles in 15 months, so that is probably a bit much for a 'nice daily'
Also I want to buy a house later this year, so I wanted to be free from the finance for the 'affordability checks' even though the mortgage payments are less then my rent.
Have a 991.2 GTS on order for delivery next year for my 'semi' daily to replace my existing m3 (if i get a slot once the factory re opens) and will pick up an R8 in the winter sometime ready for next year as my next 'super car'
In terms of should I be buying these things, some would say no, some would say yes, I don't have any debts apart from my car, and they are always have equity in them. So if I do hit hard times, or an opportunity comes along I can always off load them. All I know, is that i don't regret buying my 991 GT3 at all, I had amazing road trips in it, and met some amazing friends because I owned it.
I miss not having a nice car at the minute, but about to drive to mongolia in a fiat panda with my girlfriend, so it's swings and roundabouts.
If you can afford it, without it impacting other areas of your life then go for it. And in terms of cheaper daily and supercar, or an audi rs3, cheaper daily and super car every day of the week. Daily driving is just boring. I had a golf r and now commute in my Passat, same interior really, so i don't notice any difference in my commute as there is too much traffic to exploit it.
If i wanted to mix it up I just commuted in my gt3. Also my Passat has done 55000 miles in 15 months, so that is probably a bit much for a 'nice daily'
Mario149 said:
I love Astons in theory, but based on friends who have owned them they make Ferraris look cheap to run. The only one I'd have is a V12 Vantage, on my bucket list to own at some point, but I fully expect to get a good reaming if/when I do it.
Not my experience - some prices are hard to understand, but the same is true of Ferrari - and often, the AM bits can be sourced from Jag / Volvo etc. at cheaper price anyway.I don't find the Vantage any more expensive to run than the 911 turbo it replaced (in fact, I suspect it's been cheaper).
sebsible post as always - hope you are enjoying the R8, looks great in red.
I think the people you refer to below are the ones who drive their 355 for 2k miles a year, mostly going for leisurely Sunday drives etc. If you drive a 355 say 8-10k or more per year, plus occasionally drive it hard, then 1.5k (or even 3k) will not get you very far. It is after all a 20+ year old supercar that was designed at the beginning of the 90s ...
I think the people you refer to below are the ones who drive their 355 for 2k miles a year, mostly going for leisurely Sunday drives etc. If you drive a 355 say 8-10k or more per year, plus occasionally drive it hard, then 1.5k (or even 3k) will not get you very far. It is after all a 20+ year old supercar that was designed at the beginning of the 90s ...
Mario149 said:
... 355 is beautiful but ruinously expensive to run ...As of a couple of years ago there were still people arguing you could average out at £1.5k a year - glad to see they're not about on this thread. And for god's sake don't ever buy a car off them. If it was me, I'd budget £3k a year minimum plus a £10k slush fund.
Edited by Mario149 on Saturday 2nd June 21:22
ah and one more addition, nowadays when mainly considering normal road driving (track or Autobahn is different), a non-super-car might actually be more fun. Drove the Großglockner and the Nockalmstr. plus a few others (Katschberg, Obertauern etc) last weekend and I mostly drove the car in the middle - high revving engine, 6-speed manual, light weight and so little power that you had to rev it to red line most of the time to get it moving (esp on steep inclines) ....
MDL111 said:
ah and one more addition, nowadays when mainly considering normal road driving (track or Autobahn is different), a non-super-car might actually be more fun. Drove the Großglockner and the Nockalmstr. plus a few others (Katschberg, Obertauern etc) last weekend and I mostly drove the car in the middle - high revving engine, 6-speed manual, light weight and so little power that you had to rev it to red line most of the time to get it moving (esp on steep inclines) ....
For a lot of the same reasons you have stated, I have ordered an Ariel NomadMario149 said:
cowboyengineer said:
I miss not having a nice car at the minute, but about to drive to mongolia in a fiat panda with my girlfriend, so it's swings and roundabouts.
Where are you based? If local, I don't suppose you fancy a pint so we can pick your brains?
cowboyengineer said:
MDL111 said:
ah and one more addition, nowadays when mainly considering normal road driving (track or Autobahn is different), a non-super-car might actually be more fun. Drove the Großglockner and the Nockalmstr. plus a few others (Katschberg, Obertauern etc) last weekend and I mostly drove the car in the middle - high revving engine, 6-speed manual, light weight and so little power that you had to rev it to red line most of the time to get it moving (esp on steep inclines) ....
For a lot of the same reasons you have stated, I have ordered an Ariel NomadMDL111 said:
cowboyengineer said:
MDL111 said:
ah and one more addition, nowadays when mainly considering normal road driving (track or Autobahn is different), a non-super-car might actually be more fun. Drove the Großglockner and the Nockalmstr. plus a few others (Katschberg, Obertauern etc) last weekend and I mostly drove the car in the middle - high revving engine, 6-speed manual, light weight and so little power that you had to rev it to red line most of the time to get it moving (esp on steep inclines) ....
For a lot of the same reasons you have stated, I have ordered an Ariel NomadGassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff