first supercar
Discussion
ghost83 said:
MDL111 said:
Thread deteriorated a little
Just as an aside - the gearbox on my FF spilled oil all over the road last summer and had to be sent back to Italy - without a warranty that would have probably been a very uncomfortable bill. So it does happen and I am not sure I would want to run one of the older cars out of warranty if I could not pick up a 10k plus bill or do the work myself (which still leaves parts costs etc). It can end in tears even if over a longer period of time it will indeed average out at 3k. Also don’t forget something like a blown engine will more likely be multiples of 10k to get sorted.
How robust are these cars? How often do people get big bills if they’re looked afterJust as an aside - the gearbox on my FF spilled oil all over the road last summer and had to be sent back to Italy - without a warranty that would have probably been a very uncomfortable bill. So it does happen and I am not sure I would want to run one of the older cars out of warranty if I could not pick up a 10k plus bill or do the work myself (which still leaves parts costs etc). It can end in tears even if over a longer period of time it will indeed average out at 3k. Also don’t forget something like a blown engine will more likely be multiples of 10k to get sorted.
My 355 needed manifolds, alternator, battery, clutch, belts, big service and a few other things during my 2.5 year ownership - all in probably 15-20k (this was 8 years ago so memory a little hazy)
FF needed gearbox rebuild/repair, rear brake pads (4-digits), battery, some electronics issues
Scuderia so far nothing but the ball joints are clacking, brake pads are below 50 percent and clutch will need to be done at some point probably as a lot of city driving (clutch is c 6k euros)
Both of the above are under warranty as I could not pay for an engine rebuild or gearbox rebuild at Ferrari
If I bought another 355 or a 360 I’d want 10-15k in my back pocket in case something let’s go during the first year and then just keep that emergency fund at that level throughout ownership - the worst thing would be to have my shiny new toy sitting in the garage as I don’t have the funds to get it repaired
selym said:
I'd be worried that 4k a year wouldn't be nearly a big enough reserve to deal with unforeseen, even before you factor in servicing and consumables.
There can always be exceptions - even a Ford Fiesta could suddenly need a new engine. But in 4.5 years (and just over 10k miles), my 360 has averaged well below £4k - and that includes consumables.ETA : Let's put it this way. I recently considered getting rid of a couple of cars - including my Alfa Spider - and buying a new Mazda MX5 since I quite like the styling. However - I concluded that the ~£10k depreciation over 3 years would make it more expensive to run than a Ferrari 360 over the same period, and hence I couldn't actually "afford" one.
davek_964 said:
There can always be exceptions - even a Ford Fiesta could suddenly need a new engine. But in 4.5 years (and just over 10k miles), my 360 has averaged well below £4k - and that includes consumables.
ETA : Let's put it this way. I recently considered getting rid of a couple of cars - including my Alfa Spider - and buying a new Mazda MX5 since I quite like the styling. However - I concluded that the ~£10k depreciation over 3 years would make it more expensive to run than a Ferrari 360 over the same period, and hence I couldn't actually "afford" one.
That's really impressive reliability. My point is that if you can only really afford 4k you could be up for a rude awakening. I have a relatively lowly Monaro but I've spent over 1k in the last few weeks, just on 'stuff' it needs to keep it in shape; add Italian tax and id have blown most of that 4k emergency fund.ETA : Let's put it this way. I recently considered getting rid of a couple of cars - including my Alfa Spider - and buying a new Mazda MX5 since I quite like the styling. However - I concluded that the ~£10k depreciation over 3 years would make it more expensive to run than a Ferrari 360 over the same period, and hence I couldn't actually "afford" one.
I think it is extremely comforting that an exotic like the 360 can behave itself and be 'cheap' to run. You picked a good un!
MDL111 said:
Thread deteriorated a little
Just as an aside - the gearbox on my FF spilled oil all over the road last summer and had to be sent back to Italy - without a warranty that would have probably been a very uncomfortable bill. So it does happen and I am not sure I would want to run one of the older cars out of warranty if I could not pick up a 10k plus bill or do the work myself (which still leaves parts costs etc). It can end in tears even if over a longer period of time it will indeed average out at 3k. Also don’t forget something like a blown engine will more likely be multiples of 10k to get sorted.
My 458 gearbox had to be shipped to Italy as well under warranty. I think it was £18k covered under warranty. Yes it does happen!Just as an aside - the gearbox on my FF spilled oil all over the road last summer and had to be sent back to Italy - without a warranty that would have probably been a very uncomfortable bill. So it does happen and I am not sure I would want to run one of the older cars out of warranty if I could not pick up a 10k plus bill or do the work myself (which still leaves parts costs etc). It can end in tears even if over a longer period of time it will indeed average out at 3k. Also don’t forget something like a blown engine will more likely be multiples of 10k to get sorted.
davek_964 said:
PGNSagaris said:
My F430 manifolds went. £7k bill plus from memory. Low mileage car, 1 owner car. One night the trickle charger decided to short and it ended up killing the battery. New battery and trickle charger and you’re looking at £700+.
If you’re scraping a grand here and there together to try and finance an ageing supercar you’re gonna get a proper fright when something goes wrong.
I'm not sure how a battery + trickle charger cost you £700 - you must have paid Ferrari tax. If my Ctek charger failed, a new one from Amazon is ~£50, and a battery is certainly not going to cost me £650 - I'd expect to be able to replace both charger and battery for under £200 in my 360.If you’re scraping a grand here and there together to try and finance an ageing supercar you’re gonna get a proper fright when something goes wrong.
You always need to be aware of big bills around the corner, but I wouldn't say they are all that common. I've had one service on the 360 that was ~£5k, but that was because I wanted every little thing sorted (and it was a cam belt service anyway) - so although it was a big bill, it wasn't due to some unexpected failure.
A budget of £2k-3K each year is probably OK but you definitely need some cash in reserve. My 360 had a cam belt service again this year - it needed nothing extra, but that was still £1775 which takes a big chunk out of your annual budget.
Timing belt kit are less than £100 and the transverse engine means that replacing the belts and tensioners is a doddle. I paid my tame mechanic £165 and a plate of pasta to fit the belts and tensioners, but in all honesty I felt embarrassed that I didn't just do it myself.
Oil, filters, brake pads etc are no more challenging than on a Ford Focus.
In fact, I think that two years and 10,000 miles in my 328 cost £350 in servicing, including the timing belts.
Of course, doing it yourself will upset some potential purchasers, but if you have all the receipts then you shouldn't catch a cold. I certainly didn't.
One of the reasons that I don't find 355s and 360s attractive is the complexity and potential servicing costs.
My 328 was more straightforward and less expensive to fettle than my Esprit or my V6 Alfa GTVs ever were.
MingtheMerciless said:
My 458 gearbox had to be shipped to Italy as well under warranty. I think it was £18k covered under warranty. Yes it does happen!
It does, and I'd be pretty unhappy if I had an £18k bill on my 360.However - I'd add this :
When I bought my 348 it was about 5 years after I initially seriously considered a Ferrari. At that time I would have had to sell my other car (964 model 911) - I did a lot of research, and found far too many horror stories of catastrophic repairs, dreadful build quality and a surprising number of reviews (from owners) that literally said : "OK, so it's not as reliable / well built as a Porsche" - which made me think : Why am I selling a Porsche to buy one then?
Five years later, I no longer had to sell the 964 to pay for one - and a few months into owning the 348 my only regret was that I hadn't done it years ago. (ETA : Actually, I think I did sell the 964 when I bought the 348 - but it was no longer my only car!).
There can be disasters - and in fact, talking of Porsche's try buying an M96 engined car - you'd have to keep your fingers crossed that didn't have an engine failure. But they are not the norm, and sometimes you just have to take the risk. People get hit by a bus sometimes too, but I haven't stopped crossing the road. s
t happens, but sometimes you just have to forget about it and enjoy - and there is a LOT to enjoy when driving a Ferrari down a twisty road!Edited by davek_964 on Friday 13th April 10:00
Cheers guys that slush fund of 15k is a sobering thought! Basically the cost of a decent e46 m3 just sat aside for a gearbox or engine build
I’m going to do a few man maths and see what’s what! I’m also hoping based on the nothings selling thread that cars will become a lot cheaper (that alone could give me my emergency fund)
I’m going to do a few man maths and see what’s what! I’m also hoping based on the nothings selling thread that cars will become a lot cheaper (that alone could give me my emergency fund)
ghost83 said:
If something major goes like a gearbox I’d be pretty screwed if I got a 10k+ bill
If you'd be screwed by a £10k repair bill how screwed would you be by a £20k drop in value? Supercar prices are pretty inflated at the moment; they might have a way to go before they peak, they might have plateaued for a few years, but it's also fairly likely the market is due a "correction" and you could see 25% wiped off the value fairly quickly. Your original question was "which to go for that you aren't really going to lose money on?" - in the current market the answer to that might be "none of them".Naturally I don't have a crystal ball, but there has been much discussion on the forum recently about the market possibly having peaked, so you need to be very aware of that. If your heart is crying out so hard for some exotic Italian metal that you can ignore that chance then I'm sure many people on here would empathise with you!
I am in a not dissimilar position. I could afford an entry level supercar along the lines of a 360, 430 or low priced gallardo, and I could afford a £10k hit for something going wrong. But a £10k repair bill plus a £20k drop in value would sting pretty hard so I've decided now isn't the time. I realise that if you have suddenly found yourself in the position to buy the car if your dreams then "not right now" is the last advice you want to hear, but this is just the conclusion I came to.
I actually did what someone else here has already suggested and got an Aston Martin. Since they aren't really supercars they don't attract the speculators or investors, so the prices follow a more usual depreciation curve and aren't as market sensitive. A DB9 certainly won't scratch the same itch as a mid-engined Ferrari, but personally I've always loved the brand and for me they are just as special in a different way (this is actually my third Aston). I'm perfectly happy to watch the supercar market from the outside for a couple more years.
Depreciation is massively different on cars like this because they will always be desirable and after 5yrs the finance would be paid and for me I’d keep it till it was worth something! Look at the 308 or 328 they were 18-25k not long ago a 355 was used by experience companies and were selling at 35k if you kept a car 20yrs it will raise in value
I am on my first super car a rather lovely 50th Anni Gallardo. The costs that go along with these cars can be a bit high.
Insurance through chubb is about £1300 per year, I had to get all 4 tyres replaced for the MOT that was about 1K, tracker subscription on top off all that as well.
This year the car will need servicing, plus insurance plus tracker. So about the same cost as last year if it's just a basic service it needs. Might not seem much but it's around 3K per year to run and that's not including petrol or VED.
If your buying at the bottom end of the market though these costs could be a lot more. Ask yourself, can you really afford to run it? Poorly maintained cars are hard to shift so you can't scrimp on these costs.
Insurance through chubb is about £1300 per year, I had to get all 4 tyres replaced for the MOT that was about 1K, tracker subscription on top off all that as well.
This year the car will need servicing, plus insurance plus tracker. So about the same cost as last year if it's just a basic service it needs. Might not seem much but it's around 3K per year to run and that's not including petrol or VED.
If your buying at the bottom end of the market though these costs could be a lot more. Ask yourself, can you really afford to run it? Poorly maintained cars are hard to shift so you can't scrimp on these costs.
Never you mind said:
I am on my first super car a rather lovely 50th Anni Gallardo. The costs that go along with these cars can be a bit high.
Insurance through chubb is about £1300 per year, I had to get all 4 tyres replaced for the MOT that was about 1K, tracker subscription on top off all that as well.
This year the car will need servicing, plus insurance plus tracker. So about the same cost as last year if it's just a basic service it needs. Might not seem much but it's around 3K per year to run and that's not including petrol or VED.
If your buying at the bottom end of the market though these costs could be a lot more. Ask yourself, can you really afford to run it? Poorly maintained cars are hard to shift so you can't scrimp on these costs.
Cheers for that, how you finding it? I loved the gallardo I drove, is yours the e gear or 6spd manual? The noise on them to me is addictive! I would never scrimp on servicing it’s not worth it I’ve already priced up trackers as I’d need one for the rs anyway going to look at insurance now actuallyInsurance through chubb is about £1300 per year, I had to get all 4 tyres replaced for the MOT that was about 1K, tracker subscription on top off all that as well.
This year the car will need servicing, plus insurance plus tracker. So about the same cost as last year if it's just a basic service it needs. Might not seem much but it's around 3K per year to run and that's not including petrol or VED.
If your buying at the bottom end of the market though these costs could be a lot more. Ask yourself, can you really afford to run it? Poorly maintained cars are hard to shift so you can't scrimp on these costs.
Insurance quote on a gallardo with 3 points (January 2018) £1500 with a 250voluntary excess and 300 excess!
I think what I clearly need to do is watch the market closely and build up a decent emergency fund! Once my house is complete that frees up money as well!
This is something I’m 100% commited to so it has to be done right
I think what I clearly need to do is watch the market closely and build up a decent emergency fund! Once my house is complete that frees up money as well!
This is something I’m 100% commited to so it has to be done right
ghost83 said:
Depreciation is massively different on cars like this because they will always be desirable and after 5yrs the finance would be paid and for me I’d keep it till it was worth something! Look at the 308 or 328 they were 18-25k not long ago a 355 was used by experience companies and were selling at 35k if you kept a car 20yrs it will raise in value
Yes, it is massively different but that's not necessarily a good thing. You've said yourself that prices may drop by the time you're ready to buy.I love mine, and I think that if you can afford to do it you should. But I also agree with the posters who say you may be stung massively if the market falls.
Much as I love my car - I don't think I would risk buying one at current prices.
z4RRSchris said:
market is stagnant at best and falling more probally.
i would factor into any purchase prices returning to 2008 levels. if you cant afford that plus the running costs then donjt buy the car.
Hmm. I said about 6 months ago that I may sell mine and would decide after the major / belt service it's just had. Maybe I need to start giving it some serious thought!i would factor into any purchase prices returning to 2008 levels. if you cant afford that plus the running costs then donjt buy the car.
(But I probably won't)
ferdi p said:
Good luck with that!
Nearly all the car buyers I met had no idea if they were buying at the top or bottom of the market, I agree that you can take an educated guess but that's all it will be, a guess!
Well I’ve watched them rise to their peak in 2016 and I’ve seen cars sticking around so I will watch over the next 12 month but I’d like to see prices fall! If they drop from 10-20k that would be great! I can’t see any of them falling below 50k and I don’t see the 360 at 45-46 again (although that would be great)Nearly all the car buyers I met had no idea if they were buying at the top or bottom of the market, I agree that you can take an educated guess but that's all it will be, a guess!
Just as an aside, just read that new car sales in the U.K. are down by c 10 percent this year while up in many other European countries and that JLR is cutting c 1.000 jobs in its U.K. production facilties - if this is a sign of things to come, then people in the U.K. might have other worries than buying older non-collector supercars in the mid-price bracket, so you might get your wish of falling prices. Wait and see probably a smart move for the time being
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