Do you/Can you, really enjoy DRIVING your supercar anymore?
Discussion
What is not nuanced is when manufacturers ( and 2nd hand traders who continue with the hype ) make relatively small changes ( eg Murcie SV cf base Murcie ) to a model , and then charge 2-3 times the base price .
What is equally not nuanced is when a comparatively cheap material is dressed up as being special ( the example being given here is alcantara vs plain leather ) , and a huge premium is then charged to the poor , unsuspecting , ignorant and hapless punter who is led to believe that he ( or she ) has just had entry into an exclusive gentlemans's club .
What is equally not nuanced is when a comparatively cheap material is dressed up as being special ( the example being given here is alcantara vs plain leather ) , and a huge premium is then charged to the poor , unsuspecting , ignorant and hapless punter who is led to believe that he ( or she ) has just had entry into an exclusive gentlemans's club .
carspath said:
What is not nuanced is when manufacturers ( and 2nd hand traders who continue with the hype ) make relatively small changes ( eg Murcie SV cf base Murcie ) to a model , and then charge 2-3 times the base price .
What is equally not nuanced is when a comparatively cheap material is dressed up as being special ( the example being given here is alcantara vs plain leather ) , and a huge premium is then charged to the poor , unsuspecting , ignorant and hapless punter who is led to believe that he ( or she ) has just had entry into an exclusive gentlemans's club .
I don’t know about the Murci example you speak of. Certainly some specials have bespoke parts that set them apart and enable them to retain their premium like the 997 Sports Classic or E46 CSL. What is equally not nuanced is when a comparatively cheap material is dressed up as being special ( the example being given here is alcantara vs plain leather ) , and a huge premium is then charged to the poor , unsuspecting , ignorant and hapless punter who is led to believe that he ( or she ) has just had entry into an exclusive gentlemans's club .
Re your second point, they have just had entry into an exclusive club and they’re happy to pay for that and down the line that value is retained so what’s the issue
You don’t as a consumer pay according to the cost of construction. Otherwise the 911 would probably only be a few £k more than a Boxster, a FFRR a few £k more than an Evoque. I’d guess that time, Labour, supply chain, factory and marketing costs compete with or even exceed material cost if you apportion them like that.
Not saying this applies every time but sometimes it will
I agree with many of the points that you make .
I suppose that it just grates when I feel that I am being taken for a ride ( '' You don’t as a consumer pay according to the cost of construction '' ) by the manufacturers , as I only genuinely feel comfortable paying for a material benefit , and not for a perceived benefit .
But that is clearly just me and my own problem , as the manufacturers have no problem shifting Murcie SVs or Alcantara trim options .
I suppose that it just grates when I feel that I am being taken for a ride ( '' You don’t as a consumer pay according to the cost of construction '' ) by the manufacturers , as I only genuinely feel comfortable paying for a material benefit , and not for a perceived benefit .
But that is clearly just me and my own problem , as the manufacturers have no problem shifting Murcie SVs or Alcantara trim options .
carspath said:
I agree with many of the points that you make .
I suppose that it just grates when I feel that I am being taken for a ride ( '' You don’t as a consumer pay according to the cost of construction '' ) by the manufacturers , as I only genuinely feel comfortable paying for a material benefit , and not for a perceived benefit .
But that is clearly just me and my own problem , as the manufacturers have no problem shifting Murcie SVs or Alcantara trim options .
Wouldn't you pay more for a seat made out of leather than gold? Even if the gold one was materially worth more. Assuming you can't take it out & smelt it down of course.I suppose that it just grates when I feel that I am being taken for a ride ( '' You don’t as a consumer pay according to the cost of construction '' ) by the manufacturers , as I only genuinely feel comfortable paying for a material benefit , and not for a perceived benefit .
But that is clearly just me and my own problem , as the manufacturers have no problem shifting Murcie SVs or Alcantara trim options .
You can't apply that logic to things, non-commodity items are predominantly priced for the market, not cost-of-goods plus a margin.
You might not like it but much of the car industry was not in great shape before it figured this out - the 993 is revered as a high water mark of engineering for Porsche yet they were on the brink of bankrupcy as it was built to an engineering spec rather than a sale pricepoint
Think of it another way, it's all this messing around with overpriced alcantara that subsidises your comfy leather seat
I am answering the OP question rather than any other points above. I did thoroughly enjoy the old Ulster F1 circuit road outside Belfast at 3-4/10ths in the streaming rain in my 458 last Sunday. But for a passenger, I suspect I might have enjoyed it at 7-8/10ths. Last time I did that (in the substantially faster, in a way that doesn't matter off a track, 488, IMHO) I had a cross interview (them, not me, I was feeling zen like) with the PSNI's though, so sometime rain is a good thing.
carspath said:
What is not nuanced is when manufacturers ( and 2nd hand traders who continue with the hype ) make relatively small changes ( eg Murcie SV cf base Murcie ) to a model , and then charge 2-3 times the base price .
the murci sv was £50k more expensive than a standard murcithe sv had standard carbon cermaics and e-gear. taking this into account the sv was £30k more expensive.
£30k for a 100kg weight reduction, 30hp, different aero/bodyshell, suspension, wing, etc is good value for money.
It may or may not qualify as a supercar but when I had the Ultima GTR I missed the Westfield XI that preceded it so much I considered building another.
The Ultima was blindingly quick and the Westfield with it's 1275 A Series was considerably slower, but the Westfield was fun to drive all of the time, the Ultima was too fast and too capable to enjoy at sensible speeds. In the end I settled for a Caterham, again it's a blast to drive all the time in a way that the Ultima could just never replicate. Plus, of course, the consumables are cheaper to boot.
I did briefly consider a foray into the Ferrari fold, but just couldn't convince myself that it would be any more enjoyable than the Ultima and for exactly the same reasons.
The Ultima was blindingly quick and the Westfield with it's 1275 A Series was considerably slower, but the Westfield was fun to drive all of the time, the Ultima was too fast and too capable to enjoy at sensible speeds. In the end I settled for a Caterham, again it's a blast to drive all the time in a way that the Ultima could just never replicate. Plus, of course, the consumables are cheaper to boot.
I did briefly consider a foray into the Ferrari fold, but just couldn't convince myself that it would be any more enjoyable than the Ultima and for exactly the same reasons.
MKnight702 said:
I did briefly consider a foray into the Ferrari fold, but just couldn't convince myself that it would be any more enjoyable than the Ultima and for exactly the same reasons.
Might depend on the age of the Ferrari. My 360 has definitely been the most fun car I've ever owned, and it still impresses me 6.5 years after I bought it. I think it has the perfect amount of power - not too fast, not too slow.Having said that, I do have a more modern much faster car which means the Ferrari will be up for sale in the next couple of weeks - the newer car is fun in its own way, and much more useable as a semi-daily car - which to me, makes it a better place to have money tied up.
tberg said:
As to my Jaguar, it comes from the factory with 510, and with a pulley and tune, along with an X pipe replacing the resonator, you are close to if not over 600hp. Obviously, the same motor in the F-type R is priducing 550-575 from the factory and in the Lister F-type 666hp. As for Pantera, when I did the restoration/modification on my car a couple of years ago, we transplanted a built and stroked 351 Cleveland with about 500hp into the car along with fuel injection and a number of other upgrades.
Sounds good, that Pantera must be something else 
davek_964 said:
Might depend on the age of the Ferrari. My 360 has definitely been the most fun car I've ever owned, and it still impresses me 6.5 years after I bought it. I think it has the perfect amount of power - not too fast, not too slow.
Having said that, I do have a more modern much faster car which means the Ferrari will be up for sale in the next couple of weeks - the newer car is fun in its own way, and much more useable as a semi-daily car - which to me, makes it a better place to have money tied up.
I too have a 360 since many years and share your feeling!Having said that, I do have a more modern much faster car which means the Ferrari will be up for sale in the next couple of weeks - the newer car is fun in its own way, and much more useable as a semi-daily car - which to me, makes it a better place to have money tied up.
SpookyTheFirst said:
davek_964 said:
Might depend on the age of the Ferrari. My 360 has definitely been the most fun car I've ever owned, and it still impresses me 6.5 years after I bought it. I think it has the perfect amount of power - not too fast, not too slow.
Having said that, I do have a more modern much faster car which means the Ferrari will be up for sale in the next couple of weeks - the newer car is fun in its own way, and much more useable as a semi-daily car - which to me, makes it a better place to have money tied up.
I too have a 360 since many years and share your feeling!Having said that, I do have a more modern much faster car which means the Ferrari will be up for sale in the next couple of weeks - the newer car is fun in its own way, and much more useable as a semi-daily car - which to me, makes it a better place to have money tied up.
I bought my F430 in October and now the weather has got nice we are locked up in doors 
Having said that, just before we got locked down I had a 200 mile drive around the Lincolnshire Wolds on Saturday. It was a proper laugh out loud drive. Loved every minute of it, it's exactly what I wanted.
Of course now it's worthless
But I bought it to drive.
Roll on the being allowed outside again.
So yes I do really enjoy driving my supercar.
Having said that, just before we got locked down I had a 200 mile drive around the Lincolnshire Wolds on Saturday. It was a proper laugh out loud drive. Loved every minute of it, it's exactly what I wanted.
Of course now it's worthless
But I bought it to drive.Roll on the being allowed outside again.
So yes I do really enjoy driving my supercar.
Went for a proper dawn hoon last Sat through the Essex /Suffolk countryside with a few other McLarens and it was one of the best drives I've ever had...we were certainly pressing on in places but v little traffic and absolutely perfect weather. I know that we're not supposed to be making non essential journies right now but a solo drive for a couple hours without interacting with anyone else seems like a harmless way to kill some time given the lockdown boredom no?
RSbandit said:
Went for a proper dawn hoon last Sat through the Essex /Suffolk countryside with a few other McLarens and it was one of the best drives I've ever had...we were certainly pressing on in places but v little traffic and absolutely perfect weather. I know that we're not supposed to be making non essential journies right now but a solo drive for a couple hours without interacting with anyone else seems like a harmless way to kill some time given the lockdown boredom no?
Yes, of course, it's harmless. The Stay Home, Save Lives campaign is just for a laugh. Ignore everything below and have fun... You cannot go for a drive just to stop yourself from going stir crazy, or to blow off the cobwebs. Police numbers are predicted to drop by as much as 40% ... government has asked former NHS workers to return to work ... St. John’s Ambulance is reportedly training thousands of volunteers to assist the emergency services ... a drive when unnecessary increases the risk of a collision which could add to the strain that the NHS is already under ... reason for these restrictions, said Boris Johnson, is to “protect the NHS’s ability to cope” ....if you were in a road accident during the peak of the Covid-19 pandemic, not only would you be putting extra strain on the system but your chances of being attended to swiftly are greatly reduced and the possibility of contracting the virus while receiving medical treatment are greatly increased ... not going out for unnecessary drives also keeps the roads empty or those who most need them. That’s not just emergency services, but other key workers such as food delivery services ...
Pioneer said:
Yes, of course, it's harmless. The Stay Home, Save Lives campaign is just for a laugh. Ignore everything below and have fun
... You cannot go for a drive just to stop yourself from going stir crazy, or to blow off the cobwebs. Police numbers are predicted to drop by as much as 40% ... government has asked former NHS workers to return to work ... St. John’s Ambulance is reportedly training thousands of volunteers to assist the emergency services ... a drive when unnecessary increases the risk of a collision which could add to the strain that the NHS is already under ... reason for these restrictions, said Boris Johnson, is to “protect the NHS’s ability to cope” ....if you were in a road accident during the peak of the Covid-19 pandemic, not only would you be putting extra strain on the system but your chances of being attended to swiftly are greatly reduced and the possibility of contracting the virus while receiving medical treatment are greatly increased ... not going out for unnecessary drives also keeps the roads empty or those who most need them. That’s not just emergency services, but other key workers such as food delivery services ...
Calm down! It was harmless little hoon. In reality it didn't cause any danger. I hate when people loose their common sense.... You cannot go for a drive just to stop yourself from going stir crazy, or to blow off the cobwebs. Police numbers are predicted to drop by as much as 40% ... government has asked former NHS workers to return to work ... St. John’s Ambulance is reportedly training thousands of volunteers to assist the emergency services ... a drive when unnecessary increases the risk of a collision which could add to the strain that the NHS is already under ... reason for these restrictions, said Boris Johnson, is to “protect the NHS’s ability to cope” ....if you were in a road accident during the peak of the Covid-19 pandemic, not only would you be putting extra strain on the system but your chances of being attended to swiftly are greatly reduced and the possibility of contracting the virus while receiving medical treatment are greatly increased ... not going out for unnecessary drives also keeps the roads empty or those who most need them. That’s not just emergency services, but other key workers such as food delivery services ...
RSbandit said:
...we were certainly pressing on in places
The issue is not that you may catch an infectious disease in your own car alone, but that if you have an accident (no one plans them) you may end up in hospital which is bad at the moment as they are hotbeds of infection, placing completely unavoidable strain on the NHS, you may tie up resource that should be spent on the present emergency, or you may not get the usual level of medical care / emergency services resource. So you’re taking a higher than average risk for yourself and others. I’m not judging I totally get the appeal, I had an epic drive the other day, I’m just saying it’s not all about the primary risk of infection in your own car.
As a point last week's drive was before the tighter lockdown conditions were imposed, I accept the points about it being a bad time to have an accident given NHS situation but that in itself is a seriously tiny probability event given I've never had one in 16 years driving and the roads would have far less traffic than usual. Anyway point taken on the NHS side I appreciate it's a challenging time but people need to calm down a bit.
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