Suggestions for a first supercar
Discussion
hunter 66 said:
Is a Tesla a supercar as it sure is fast ...... faster than most supercars . In fact the next gen EV's are going to make the current supercars slow ....
So then a Supercar will be classified as a car that is slower
You are getting confused by a simple number, the Tesla is a one-trick pony, fast off the line but utterly terrible at everything else. Hateful lardy thing that doesn't ride or do corners, it simply can't be a 'supercar', or a 'super car', or even 'marginally decent car'.So then a Supercar will be classified as a car that is slower
The Selfish Gene said:
Bispal said:
said things about the McLaren.........
I'm just looking at an MP4/12...............is that the confirmed number Bispal? 5k per year plus 1k service? Is that mostly warranty repeats?Edited by Bispal on Tuesday 11th September 16:39
thanks for the info.
I have to say , I was sniffing the MP4/12.........but reading the servicing thread woes in the McLaren section has put me off.
The 6/7k a year, ok, that is what it is.......,but 5k for a warranty and cars sitting for weeks and weeks of that year not getting corrected because they're too busy has meant I'll probably look at something other than a McLaren for my next car.
Shame really - maybe in the future when they've caught up with demand.
I have to say , I was sniffing the MP4/12.........but reading the servicing thread woes in the McLaren section has put me off.
The 6/7k a year, ok, that is what it is.......,but 5k for a warranty and cars sitting for weeks and weeks of that year not getting corrected because they're too busy has meant I'll probably look at something other than a McLaren for my next car.
Shame really - maybe in the future when they've caught up with demand.
The Selfish Gene said:
thanks for the info.
I have to say , I was sniffing the MP4/12.........but reading the servicing thread woes in the McLaren section has put me off.
The 6/7k a year, ok, that is what it is.......,but 5k for a warranty and cars sitting for weeks and weeks of that year not getting corrected because they're too busy has meant I'll probably look at something other than a McLaren for my next car.
Shame really - maybe in the future when they've caught up with demand.
Don't let it put you off. Yes you will have niggles but the important things to agree with the service center are:-I have to say , I was sniffing the MP4/12.........but reading the servicing thread woes in the McLaren section has put me off.
The 6/7k a year, ok, that is what it is.......,but 5k for a warranty and cars sitting for weeks and weeks of that year not getting corrected because they're too busy has meant I'll probably look at something other than a McLaren for my next car.
Shame really - maybe in the future when they've caught up with demand.
1. If the car is still ok to use don't pick it up until they are ready with it (eg. cosmetic issues)
2. Agree a time limit with them and a hire car, that will focus them, agree what you will do if it isn't ready in the agreed time such as loan of another McLaren
3. Make them check all the parts they need are available.
4. If pick up is an issues get the AA (McLaren assist) to pick it up instead of the dealer.
You need to manage the dealers before the car goes to them.
The 12C has done most of its depreciation now and and the £5k warranty is only slightly more than a Ferrari power warranty. Most new cars will depreciate much more than the 12C will now and even more than the warranty costs. The days of running a supercar for nothing are over unless you are lucky enough to get allocated a Porsche GT or Ferrari Ltd Edition and then are happy not to drive them. Most older Ferrari's will cost more to keep on the road than the Warranty (I say most as some will say theirs cost peanuts in 10 years and others will have spent a small fortune, luck of the draw)
If you want a 12C get one, get a warranty, expect a month of aggro a year and enjoy the other 11 months knowing you have one of the fastest most complete cars available and its costing you less than a new Boxsters depreciation.
Edited by Bispal on Tuesday 11th September 17:01
Nano2nd said:
Bispal said:
So the only cost in owning a 12C is around £6k pa
well that and the depreciation.. oh and insurance, tax and fuel... if all that's less that £15k pa you've probably done alright!Total costs, fuel aside, for 27 months were £7,500 depreciation, £6,000 warranty (pro-rata). I am not counting tax, fuel or insurance as all were comparable to my other cars. In fact the service was more on my MX5! That's £500 per month in depreciation and warranty.
Nano2nd said:
not this s**t again 
- haven't we had the "yet another person who's never owned anything close to a supercar, but has strong opinions on what is or isn't a supercar" thread this month already.
I have just sold my Ultima GTR and am perfectly able to buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini, but I don't want to, does that help? I want something that gives me driving pleasure and is involving from the minute I climb in to the minute I climb out not something modern that insulates the driver from the actual process of driving. - haven't we had the "yet another person who's never owned anything close to a supercar, but has strong opinions on what is or isn't a supercar" thread this month already.m4tti said:
av185 said:
MKnight702 said:
it should be all about going as fast as possible
MKnight702 said:
What I was trying to express was that pure top speed and acceleration do not a Supercar make.
Edited by m4tti on Monday 10th September 22:40
What I am trying to get across is that you can make a car fast but that alone doesn't make it a supercar. To try and explain the my thinking, if you had a BMW M3 which is a fast car by any standard and dropped it into 1986 and compared it against a Countach LP5000QV. Would the M3 be a supercar because it is faster or does the Countach have the "je ne sais quoi?" that pushes it into Supercardom.
Edited by MKnight702 on Tuesday 11th September 17:28
MKnight702 said:
I'm sorry I don't seem to be making sense, it makes perfect sense in my head but it is difficult to put down in words.
What I am trying to get across is that you can make a car fast but that alone doesn't make it a supercar. To try and explain the my thinking, if you had a BMW M3 which is a fast car by any standard and dropped it into 1986 and compared it against a Countach LP5000QV. Would the M3 be a supercar because it is faster or does the Countach have the "je ne sais pas" that pushes it into Supercardom.
I think I get what you're trying to say.........If memory serves me the BMW M3 existed already in the 1980's (as the M3 EVO) as a coupe and later as a convertible when the Countach QV was about. The BM came out in 1985/86 I think, I remember seeing it for the first time in the flesh in 1987. So "back then" yes it was a quick car but I can never recall it or the period magazines and road tests ever classing it as a supercar. It was albeit a superb super little car though. Dare I say almost a giant killer. But it lacked the "Je ne sais Quoi" of the exotics i.e. The over the top X factor. What I am trying to get across is that you can make a car fast but that alone doesn't make it a supercar. To try and explain the my thinking, if you had a BMW M3 which is a fast car by any standard and dropped it into 1986 and compared it against a Countach LP5000QV. Would the M3 be a supercar because it is faster or does the Countach have the "je ne sais pas" that pushes it into Supercardom.
In my humble opinion, for many people, many factors would have to come into play for it to be classed as an "exotic"/ "supercar". Each decade, each generation has of course standout cars and milestone cars. Some reach supercar stardom and some just miss it.
Whilst the M3 EVO in 1987 was very fast, not sure it was faster than a QV Countach. While the Countach was a handful on the limit, the M3 was easy by comparison. they really were/are totally different automobiles. The M3 though had great success in Touring cars, which is notable. Anyone remember the Lotus Carlton? What a beast that was!!!
Edited by MaserCoupe on Tuesday 11th September 17:45
Edited by MaserCoupe on Tuesday 11th September 17:50
MKnight702 said:
I have just sold my Ultima GTR and am perfectly able to buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini, but I don't want to, does that help? I want something that gives me driving pleasure and is involving from the minute I climb in to the minute I climb out not something modern that insulates the driver from the actual process of driving.
I used to think like that, had a TVR and wanted an ultima, but soon came to the realisation that on modern road surfaces in a poor state of repair the driving pleasure and involvement thing just isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Bispal said:
Yes McWarranty was £5k a year in April when I sold mine after 2 and half years. Car cost me nothing other than warranty and service of £1,400 & £1,000 and tyres, all 4 Mc rated Pzeros for £880 fitted. Cars under 5 years old are less, £3,500pa I think. If you buy a car out of warranty you will need to have it inspected by McLaren, around £700, plus any work needed to bring it up to approved standard. That's why its better to buy with a Mc warranty. Just make sure its transferable there is a limit of how close it can be to the expiry which is 3 months. This is why best way to buy a McLaren is privately if you don't want to pay the main dealer mark up as you still get all the warranty back up. So the only additional cost in owning a 12C is around £6k pa plus allow a month or so off the road if you are un-lucky, but not everyone is, at least its all covered!
£12.5k running costs in 2 years does seem quite expensive
£12.5k running costs in 2 years does seem quite expensive
Edited by Bispal on Tuesday 11th September 16:39
jakesmith said:
Bispal said:
Yes McWarranty was £5k a year in April when I sold mine after 2 and half years. Car cost me nothing other than warranty and service of £1,400 & £1,000 and tyres, all 4 Mc rated Pzeros for £880 fitted. Cars under 5 years old are less, £3,500pa I think. If you buy a car out of warranty you will need to have it inspected by McLaren, around £700, plus any work needed to bring it up to approved standard. That's why its better to buy with a Mc warranty. Just make sure its transferable there is a limit of how close it can be to the expiry which is 3 months. This is why best way to buy a McLaren is privately if you don't want to pay the main dealer mark up as you still get all the warranty back up. So the only additional cost in owning a 12C is around £6k pa plus allow a month or so off the road if you are un-lucky, but not everyone is, at least its all covered!
£12.5k running costs in 2 years does seem quite expensive
Not for a supercar! Its super for a reason or else buy a Kia....
£12.5k running costs in 2 years does seem quite expensive
Not for a supercar! Its super for a reason or else buy a Kia....
Edited by Bispal on Tuesday 11th September 16:39
MKnight702 said:
I have just sold my Ultima GTR and am perfectly able to buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini, but I don't want to, does that help? I want something that gives me driving pleasure and is involving from the minute I climb in to the minute I climb out not something modern that insulates the driver from the actual process of driving.
Worth trying a Diablo, a visceral and engaging experience.Interesting thread, so thought I would post my thoughts.
I have owned Porsches and Ferraris for the last 23 years and dipped into Lambos and recently been converted into Mclarens.
So my take is
Porsches are very good everyday Sports cars (not really supercars unless talking GT). I actually think each new model has got slight less engaging to drive , but I still own a 911 and probably always will, so it says something!
Ferraris. I have always been a Ferrari nut since I was a kid and owned 20+ Ferraris till the 458. The 360 I personally really like and owned the stradale, also 430 was a great car to drive. I personally think the 458 is massively overpriced and just does not feel fast enough, but I still like it.
Lambos - I have had bad experiences here. I love the looks but they have generally been a bad drive and horrific prices, Diablo is undrivable, The murcielargo was eye watering on expenses and Gallardo just a bit plain poor. almost bought the Huracan till I drove a McLaren.
Audi R8s, are good cars and liked vary much but never really felt special enough.
Mclarens - Now this is where everything got shaken about and changed my car world. The late 12cs (remapped) and 650's and 720's are awesome cars, which for the money blow everything out the water in my opinion very special cars. I was originally put off by people banging on about customer service and niggles blah blah blah... 12c is best value supercar out there in my opinion an loking to get the 720 soon.
But I still want a Ferrari as well....... and a Porsche......
An interesting point to note is the reception you get from people is much more favourable and respectful to mclarens as well (not that this should matter)
These are just my thoughts and experiences
I have owned Porsches and Ferraris for the last 23 years and dipped into Lambos and recently been converted into Mclarens.
So my take is
Porsches are very good everyday Sports cars (not really supercars unless talking GT). I actually think each new model has got slight less engaging to drive , but I still own a 911 and probably always will, so it says something!
Ferraris. I have always been a Ferrari nut since I was a kid and owned 20+ Ferraris till the 458. The 360 I personally really like and owned the stradale, also 430 was a great car to drive. I personally think the 458 is massively overpriced and just does not feel fast enough, but I still like it.
Lambos - I have had bad experiences here. I love the looks but they have generally been a bad drive and horrific prices, Diablo is undrivable, The murcielargo was eye watering on expenses and Gallardo just a bit plain poor. almost bought the Huracan till I drove a McLaren.
Audi R8s, are good cars and liked vary much but never really felt special enough.
Mclarens - Now this is where everything got shaken about and changed my car world. The late 12cs (remapped) and 650's and 720's are awesome cars, which for the money blow everything out the water in my opinion very special cars. I was originally put off by people banging on about customer service and niggles blah blah blah... 12c is best value supercar out there in my opinion an loking to get the 720 soon.
But I still want a Ferrari as well....... and a Porsche......
An interesting point to note is the reception you get from people is much more favourable and respectful to mclarens as well (not that this should matter)
These are just my thoughts and experiences
I'm sort of naturally not predisposed to McLarens and not really thinking of one because I live in Ireland where there is no McLaren dealer. That said, I did drive a 12C back to back with a 458 around a track in Las Vegas and put the 458 ahead by such a wafer thin margin that really it was a nothing. But there seems to be such a complete McLaren fanboi thing going on here from people that have previously had Ferrari's that I think I will just have to go there to make my own mind up.
You could make a good argument that at this level the differences between Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo etc are pretty much to taste.
That's why I've never really understood the obsession by some on here to Top Trumps the cars - e.g. carbon tub or lack thereof. Unless you're habitually racing the cars the differences within the same league (e.g. not comparing V8 458s with V12 Aventadors etc) are largely academic. Most people buying these cars - which are completely unnecessary in practical terms - will be driven by their heart.
It would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing.
That's why I've never really understood the obsession by some on here to Top Trumps the cars - e.g. carbon tub or lack thereof. Unless you're habitually racing the cars the differences within the same league (e.g. not comparing V8 458s with V12 Aventadors etc) are largely academic. Most people buying these cars - which are completely unnecessary in practical terms - will be driven by their heart.
It would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing.
Ming, I think on the track there is not much in it between early 12c and 458 , but on the road and later 12c with main dealer power upgrades to match 650, I think its night and day. This is a real problem for me as I am a Ferrari fan through and through, so my only option now is to have both! The Mclarens are far far superior cars, but that prancing horse just has something with all its history.
No dealer and independants would also sway my opinion if I was in Ireland
No dealer and independants would also sway my opinion if I was in Ireland
Marathon Guy said:
Ming, I think on the track there is not much in it between early 12c and 458 , but on the road and later 12c with main dealer power upgrades to match 650, I think its night and day.
All 12c's got the (insignificant) power update and various gearbox /platform/software tweaks. The difference between a late 12c and earlier one is only going to be build quality. They drive exactly the same and it's certainly not night and day even pre and post 2012 update....When I took a 458 out and a McLaren it was pre power upgrade days, hence the difference was small.
Also my personal experience, and it is only my personal experience is that not all 12c's come with the power upgrades and other tweaks (power upgrades generally came with a nice big power upgrade brochures and manuals), especially earlier models didn't, I don't know if this was due to owners not wanting the upgrade or not having warrenty, but it does make a significant difference driving them. Some people seem to be getting upgrades from McLaren dealers up to 720....(Ive not asked).
It might be my driving skills but on the road I thought it was a huge difference compared to the 458, but there is such a rave about the 458, its probably just me. Im doing something wrong!
I would like to also add I love the 458, and would not blame anyone choosing it over a McLaren especially with indies to look after it and more substantial dealer network etc
Also my personal experience, and it is only my personal experience is that not all 12c's come with the power upgrades and other tweaks (power upgrades generally came with a nice big power upgrade brochures and manuals), especially earlier models didn't, I don't know if this was due to owners not wanting the upgrade or not having warrenty, but it does make a significant difference driving them. Some people seem to be getting upgrades from McLaren dealers up to 720....(Ive not asked).
It might be my driving skills but on the road I thought it was a huge difference compared to the 458, but there is such a rave about the 458, its probably just me. Im doing something wrong!
I would like to also add I love the 458, and would not blame anyone choosing it over a McLaren especially with indies to look after it and more substantial dealer network etc
Edited by Marathon Guy on Tuesday 18th September 13:49
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