F1 gearbox Ferrari's advertised as manuals????

[Roof down]

The Selfish Gene said:

drives me nuts when I'm filtering adverts.

I just assumed it was people couldn't be arsed to tick the correct box.

Surely when it comes to a 355, 360, 430 we all know that a manual with a proper gate and beautiful stick is what we are looking for when we filter manual.

Not the paddles..........if people do that deliberately hoping a person will suddenly decide they want a totally difference preference, it's wasting everyone's time!

But that’s exactly what they do and hope for, they know the manual is the one, I don’t think many buyers want the trouble that comes with 14 year old high pressure old tech old electronics, I don’t wish to be insensitive to F1 gearbox owners here either.
I am not easy with dealers full stop.

[MaserCoupe]

Crikey here I was thinking I was all alone on this.....I couldn't agree more re: the adverts and descriptors. I noticed this upward trend for the last several years (if not more) with manual three pedal searches.

Some advert pics going as far as to "strategically" block the view into the central console and even the driver's footwell. Well that is kind of a big clue in itself. The strategy that I find hilarious though when you tentatively talk to Mr Important Salesperson is how they tell you subtly that your manual is worthless but that they would love to still take it on......BLAH BLAH BLAH....Oh yes these F1 paddles are all the rage BLAH BLAH BLAH can't get enough of them to sell...BLAH BLAH BLAH....Much quicker than a manual gearshift BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. You can drive ten tenths BLAH, BLAH, BLAH......These F1 gearboxes, yeah, bullet proof, no worries on the pumps or electronics...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....

Experience has taught me otherwise and I'm not knocking anyone with an F1 paddle shift system. If it suits you, is what you want and you are happy then good for you!!!!

I know that I would never be satisfied with automation (and the dependance on it) in respect to F1/paddle gear systems, nor did I get the satisfaction in driving with the use of my finger tips clicking a paddle to change gear. In fact, I felt the opposite, a complete detachment.

The rewards of driving a three pedal car to me are just beyond reproach, genuinely cannot put a price on it. Every time I come back from an enthusiastic blast, I stand there, look at it and promise myself that l'll never piss it away. I find it hard to see anything that would involve you like a three pedal car. The effort/input of you, balanced to the reward when you get it all right.

F1 systems have there place and their fans, however when they go wrong (and they do) logic would tell me that they shouldn't be very expensive to fix what with technology, computers and past "lessons learnt" etc but alas manufacturers/mechanics tell you and prove otherwise. 'Oh we can't do anything until we plug it in to the computer" BLAH, BLAH, BLAH and "oh yes we charge for that diagnostic to be plugged in to reset your clutch......."

Honestly it really does seem to me (imho, more so in todays car world than before) and never truer words said in "all that glitters is not gold......." Tip my hat to whom ever said that...It makes a lot of sense now...

When the first production car came with the F1 transmission (the 355F1, a world first), it was amazing (then) as no one had experienced this technology. Ferrari's F1 technological showcase, "what you mean shifting as quick as Schumacher!" I'll have it thanks!!! Incidentally that F1 paddle system was first tested in Gilles Villeneuve's 312T2 race car in late 1978 but he simply didn't want such new tech in his championship race-car. It finally made it's debut in Mansell's 89 season race car, winning on it's maiden outing at the Brazilian GP.

Who Knew!!?? Here we are some two decades later and virtually every car enthusiast, car lover, petrolhead, talks and more so yearns for a manual sportscar, Ferrari, Lambo, Maser or otherwise.........................Forza the Gearstick!!! I refuse to let you go and I promise to never give you away cheap to Mr Slimey, Schmoozy Salesman!

Edited by MaserCoupe on Tuesday 11th September 21:56

Edited by MaserCoupe on Tuesday 11th September 22:06

Edited by MaserCoupe on Tuesday 11th September 22:10

[Roof down]

MaserCoupe said:

Crikey here I was thinking I was all alone on this.....I couldn't agree more re: the adverts and descriptors. I noticed this upward trend for the last several years (if not more) with manual three pedal searches.

Some advert pics going as far as to "strategically" block the view into the central console and even the driver's footwell. Well that is kind of a big clue in itself. The strategy that I find hilarious though when you tentatively talk to Mr Important Salesperson is how they tell you subtly that your manual is worthless but that they would love to still take it on......BLAH BLAH BLAH....Oh yes these F1 paddles are all the rage BLAH BLAH BLAH can't get enough of them to sell...BLAH BLAH BLAH....Much quicker than a manual gearshift BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. You can drive ten tenths BLAH, BLAH, BLAH......These F1 gearboxes, yeah, bullet proof, no worries on the pumps or electronics...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....

Experience has taught me otherwise and I'm not knocking anyone with an F1 paddle shift system. If it suits you, is what you want and you are happy then good for you!!!!

I know that I would never be satisfied with automation (and the dependance on it) in respect to F1/paddle gear systems, nor did I get the satisfaction in driving with the use of my finger tips clicking a paddle to change gear. In fact, I felt the opposite, a complete detachment.

The rewards of driving a three pedal car to me are just beyond reproach, genuinely cannot put a price on it. Every time I come back from an enthusiastic blast, I stand there, look at it and promise myself that l'll never piss it away. I find it hard to see anything that would involve you like a three pedal car. The effort/input of you, balanced to the reward when you get it all right.

F1 systems have there place and their fans, however when they go wrong (and they do) logic would tell me that they shouldn't be very expensive to fix what with technology, computers and past "lessons learnt" etc but alas manufacturers/mechanics tell you and prove otherwise. 'Oh we can't do anything until we plug it in to the computer" BLAH, BLAH, BLAH and "oh yes we charge for that diagnostic to be plugged in to reset your clutch......."

Honestly it really does seem to me (imho, more so in todays car world than before) and never truer words said in "all that glitters is not gold......." Tip my hat to whom ever said that...It makes a lot of sense now...

When the first production car came with the F1 transmission (the 355F1, a world first), it was amazing (then) as no one had experienced this technology. Ferrari's F1 technological showcase, "what you mean shifting as quick as Schumacher!" I'll have it thanks!!! Incidentally that F1 paddle system was first tested in Gilles Villeneuve's 312T2 race car in late 1978 but he simply didn't want such new tech in his championship race-car. It finally made it's debut in Mansell's 89 season race car, winning on it's maiden outing at the Brazilian GP.

Who Knew!!?? Here we are some three decades later and virtually every car enthusiast, car lover, petrolhead, talks and more so yearns for a manual sportscar, Ferrari, Lambo, Maser or otherwise.........................Forza the Gearstick!!! I refuse to let you go and I promise to never give you away cheap to Mr Slimey, Schmoozy Salesman!

Edited by MaserCoupe on Tuesday 11th September 21:56

Edited by MaserCoupe on Tuesday 11th September 22:06

Brilliant

[jtremlett]

MaserCoupe said:

...Here we are some three decades later and virtually every car enthusiast, car lover, petrolhead, talks and more so yearns for a manual sportscar, Ferrari, Lambo, Maser or otherwise...

Please don't assume everyone else is the same as you. Firstly Ferrari make their cars to sell to new car buyers and they somehow manage to sell them all. Remember that the F1 change was initially a seven grand option and soon overtook manual sales. Secondly, I recall Maranello's having a manual 599 in stock (it took a long time to sell but this was before the "manuals are wonderful" thing) and none of their guys who drove it liked it. They all said it just didn't suit the car. Similarly, I don't know how many manual Californias were finally made but I am only aware of two. I'm sure everyone reading this is a gear changing god, capable of a perfectly executed heal and toe every time regardless of whether they're managing 950 horsepower of a LaFerrari or not but for the mere mortals who buy new Ferraris I guess that isn't the case.

Misleading advertising, however, is another matter, although I do believe in most cases it is not deliberate intent but either laziness or the limitations of the software used to place the ad (I believe most dealers use third party software that places the ad so that they only have to do it once rather than for each website they want to list on).

[MDL111]

I prefer a stick shift box, but the F1 is actually not bad if you drive on track and are worried about missing a shift and blowing up your box - i‘d Much rather have a stick on the FF though as I am not a fan of DCT boxes and would prefer the additional interaction
Dare I say though, I have changed my mind on the Scud and am not sure if I would still want a stick shift - and I was convinced I would convert it at the time of purchase ... taught me to try something extensively before disregarding it

[Camlet]

_Leg_ said:

Behemoth said:

Camlet said:

Possibly a little pedantic, but I don't think it's Ferraris either

One Ferrari, many Ferrari.

If you're speaking Italian, yes. In an English sentence, I'd disagree. You'd struggle to find any English language journalist writing Ferrari as plural.

Try describing two ferraris and two lotuseseseses? Lotuseses? Loti? I have two of each and never know what plural to use when asked what cars I have. On this basis I refuse to buy any sheepsies.

[yellowtr]

jtremlett said:

lease don't assume everyone else is the same as you. Firstly Ferrari make their cars to sell to new car buyers and they somehow manage to sell them all. Remember that the F1 change was initially a seven grand option and soon overtook manual sales. Secondly, I recall Maranello's having a manual 599 in stock (it took a long time to sell but this was before the "manuals are wonderful" thing) and none of their guys who drove it liked it. They all said it just didn't suit the car. Similarly, I don't know how many manual Californias were finally made but I am only aware of two. I'm sure everyone reading this is a gear changing god, capable of a perfectly executed heal and toe every time regardless of whether they're managing 950 horsepower of a LaFerrari or not but for the mere mortals who buy new Ferraris I guess that isn't the case.

Misleading advertising, however, is another matter, although I do believe in most cases it is not deliberate intent but either laziness or the limitations of the software used to place the ad (I believe most dealers use third party software that places the ad so that they only have to do it once rather than for each website they want to list on).

As mentioned JT it's a fault/limitation of the software and drives me made in my personal experience. But I am sure their maybe a few dealers who may do it to mislead but I don't think its generally the case for all. A quick look at the advert would confirm if it manual or F1.

[The Selfish Gene]

it's the correct tool for the job in my opinion.

if I bought a McLaren, I'd have no issue with the automated gearbox, as that's what they are.

Same with new Lamborghinis

Ferrari though for me, if it's 355, 360 or 430 has to be manual (as they are the ones with the choice) - later cars no choice, fair play, that's what you're ordering.

As time marches on.............they won't be available in anything probably.

Hence why the manual Ferrari is a thing of dreams and a car to keep forever.

[Roof down]

The thing is that at. the time F1 was no doubt very good, but if you had had a crystal ball and told the buyers that 1. It will knock a clutch out twice as fast as a manual 2. It will be troublesome and expensive to fix quite often3. 4.It won’t reverse properly 5.As it ages it will require much time to keep fully operational as the cars become period and old school it won’t look right, then many people would have stuck to manual.
I agree modern cars and the new gearboxes are now the way forward, but they weren’t then.

[ryandoc]

I’d have thought advertise the F1 as a manual of software limitations are in place, but then clearly state in the description what exactly you’re getting, ie no stick and paddles.

But it’s clouded further by the car choices. 355 manual or robotised Manual, no auto.

GranTurismo, auto box or F1.

So the choice in some cars does make it tricky. But surely people looking will have some general idea. Plus I’d have thought knowing whether you will be facing a jaw dropping clutch replacement cost at some point, so a manual and not torque converter, is important.

3 year F1 GranTurismo owner here, no manual option and by all accounts the sportier option over the auto, albeit I’ve never driven an auto version myself

[mike01606]

Roof down said:

The thing is that at. the time F1 was no doubt very good, but if you had had a crystal ball and told the buyers that 1. It will knock a clutch out twice as fast as a manual 2. It will be troublesome and expensive to fix quite often3. 4.It won’t reverse properly 5.As it ages it will require much time to keep fully operational as the cars become period and old school it won’t look right, then many people would have stuck to manual.
I agree modern cars and the new gearboxes are now the way forward, but they weren’t then.

Obviously speaking from experience. How many F1 cars have you owned exactly?

[anonymous-user]

mike01606 said:

Roof down said:

The thing is that at. the time F1 was no doubt very good, but if you had had a crystal ball and told the buyers that 1. It will knock a clutch out twice as fast as a manual 2. It will be troublesome and expensive to fix quite often3. 4.It won’t reverse properly 5.As it ages it will require much time to keep fully operational as the cars become period and old school it won’t look right, then many people would have stuck to manual.
I agree modern cars and the new gearboxes are now the way forward, but they weren’t then.

Obviously speaking from experience. How many F1 cars have you owned exactly?

I have to say - I can't agree with that at all and it certainly hasn't been my experience. Each to their own but do you have data to substantiate any of your points? Driven correctly - and as as mentioned above, sympathetically as per a manual gearbox, the F1 is as smooth as you like on the street. Pushing on, and at the limit on track, it is a joy to use. A proper kick in the back experience such as a DCT will struggle to provide. Would it suit a 308 - never. An 812 - not a chance, but for a short window in time it was the best gearbox available in a production car, and for that it will be remembered.

BTW, my 1930 Rolls Royce has a non-synchromesh 4 speed box with overdrive. Operated poorly it's a pig, but get right and it's perfect.

EDIT: Just to add some data myself - mileage 27,000, clutch wear 22%, F1 repairs so far £350 (upgraded the F1 pump).

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 14th September 10:56

[MarkM3Evoplus]

I have an early AM Vanquish, the one where Jeremy Clarkson said the paddle change was rubbish and everyone just quoted him.

Maybe mine is well set up with the latest clutch and software, but it really isn't that bad. Yes it isn't a daily driver, but I have been stuck in M25 traffic and it was fine, but you do need to be sympathetic.

Being not the quickest change (I don't often use Sport mode) it suits the laid back character of a big GT.

I have driven a manually converted Vanquish (not for a great distance granted), but it certainly didn't make me want a stick.

[mike01606]

thecook101 said:

I have to say - I can't agree with that at all and it certainly hasn't been my experience. Each to their own but do you have data to substantiate any of your points? Driven correctly - and as as mentioned above, sympathetically as per a manual gearbox, the F1 is as smooth as you like on the street. Pushing on, and at the limit on track, it is a joy to use. A proper kick in the back experience such as a DCT will struggle to provide. Would it suit a 308 - never. An 812 - not a chance, but for a short window in time it was the best gearbox available in a production car, and for that it will be remembered.

BTW, my 1930 Rolls Royce has a non-synchromesh 4 speed box with overdrive. Operated poorly it's a pig, but get right and it's perfect.

EDIT: Just to add some data myself - mileage 27,000, clutch wear 22%, F1 repairs so far £350 (upgraded the F1 pump).

Edited by thecook101 on Friday 14th September 10:56

My comment was a bit sarcastic.....

It’s an perennial argument of biblical proportion on some car forums. I thought the OP was trolling at first.
Normal modus operandi is “I like my F1” or “Should I buy and F1” followed by 400 manual fanboys telling you their rubbish, unreliable, eat clutches etc...usually without any true reference.
Of course they are more complex and hence will require more skill/knowledge the set-up and repair but it’s only the pro’s that can give a balanced view on the issues.

Each to their own an JT nailed it.

360, 6 years, 25k miles in my custody, a new F1 pump replaced on age not failure, clutch wear <30%, zero issues.

Edited by mike01606 on Friday 14th September 11:38

[Roof down]

Facts are facts, just look at the various forums to see the evidence of the complexity of the F1, I’m not trying to say one way or the other. But less parts less electronics surely equals more reliability For me I like the look of the stick interior.
Also when enquiringl about trading my 360 the first thing I was asked was if it was manual, because they(main dealer) didn’t want it if it was F1.
To my mind that sums it up really Even the models went manual

[Roof down]

Facts are facts, just look at the various forums to see the evidence of the complexity of the F1, I’m not trying to say one way or the other. But less parts less electronics surely equals more reliability For me I like the look of the stick interior.
Also when enquiringl about trading my 360 the first thing I was asked was if it was manual, because they(main dealer) didn’t want it if it was F1.
To my mind that sums it up really Even the models went manual

[Roof down]

mike01606 said:

Obviously speaking from experience. How many F1 cars have you owned exactly?

None, but my early trucks had the same systems, and they were troublesome , whereas our new trucks with new technologies are superb, my manual 360 has had a clutch and synchro at 33k so not bullet proof. I am only speaking as I find and see, glad yours has been fine and hopefully it stays so. Mike