Supercars: becoming mass market
Discussion
Spindoctor said:
Point is, you don't need to slap a huge wad of cash down to buy a car nowadays. The combination of loads of finance wheezes plus historically low interest costs means people are financing cars mostly out of cashflow. They may be able to 'afford' it but some people may not be tucking much away for a rainy day, or an old age. Fine, that's personal choice.
This is very true....same as large mortgages. Funded out of cash flow/earnings in the hope something will come along allowing them to pay it off. I worked in an industry where people earn pretty good money and I’ve seen plenty get to the age of 50 and be stuck in a lifestyle where they need to earn a six figure sum to just to maintain that lifestyle and have saved very little other than perhaps a big house with a perhaps a 50% LTV mortgage.Also whilst people think there are a huge amount of expensive cars around the demographic that can afford them is much,much bigger. Market penetration is still a very small %. I know one person who has got a new Lambo....I know plenty of people who could afford one.
I think peoples attitudes to being able to purchase this stuff has changed vastly as well.
When I was growing up if someone owned a Diablo or something similar you kind of assumed they lived in a huge house with the lifestyle to match. These days that's kind of out the window I know a lovely guy who has an Aventador but lives in small 3 bedroom house no flash watch etc. His car is his one extravagance. I'm not sure 20 years ago he would have thought it was possible.
I know my Dad used to be intimidated by brands like Ferrari because he couldn't possibly afford one so wouldn't even look. Looking back now he could of absolutely afforded to finance one. The brands seem much more open than they used to. Perhaps it is just me and my weird family
I was think gin the other day actually that there seems to be loads of options now if you want to spend 500k plus on a super car which not that long ago wasn't the case. You do wonder who is buying them all! But then again I think the figures a few years ao that there are 1500 people on the planet who can spend a billion and many thousands more in the 100 millions so finding a couple of hundred people to spend a million is actually kind of understandable.
Kind of blows my mind but then again every year I go back to places like China for work and they are just getting richer and richer at a phenomenal rate.
When I was growing up if someone owned a Diablo or something similar you kind of assumed they lived in a huge house with the lifestyle to match. These days that's kind of out the window I know a lovely guy who has an Aventador but lives in small 3 bedroom house no flash watch etc. His car is his one extravagance. I'm not sure 20 years ago he would have thought it was possible.
I know my Dad used to be intimidated by brands like Ferrari because he couldn't possibly afford one so wouldn't even look. Looking back now he could of absolutely afforded to finance one. The brands seem much more open than they used to. Perhaps it is just me and my weird family
I was think gin the other day actually that there seems to be loads of options now if you want to spend 500k plus on a super car which not that long ago wasn't the case. You do wonder who is buying them all! But then again I think the figures a few years ao that there are 1500 people on the planet who can spend a billion and many thousands more in the 100 millions so finding a couple of hundred people to spend a million is actually kind of understandable.
Kind of blows my mind but then again every year I go back to places like China for work and they are just getting richer and richer at a phenomenal rate.
ntiz said:
I know my Dad used to be intimidated by brands like Ferrari because he couldn't possibly afford one so wouldn't even look. Looking back now he could of absolutely afforded to finance one. The brands seem much more open than they used to. Perhaps it is just me and my weird family
yeah it's interesting, our family hated ferrari for ages and only stuck to porsche because we felt it was less of a snobby brand. When my dad drove my 430 he changed his mind completely and realized they are drivers cars!Someone said it earlier in the thread and I agree; all but the most special of current supercars are now the new sports cars and we should expect them to depreciate as such. The proliferation of hypercars above them, and the performance of 'bog standard' EVs, hot hatches and fast saloons below, has whittled away at the space they occupy to the point that there is now little to differentiate them beyond brand and styling. Believing that increasing bhp from 600 to 800 makes any real world difference when 400 is probably the top of what can be fully exploited on the road, smacks more of pub bragging rights than actual experience.
Thirty years ago the super-wealthy bought Ferraris and Lamborghinis while Johnny-made-good had a Porsche or Merc. Nowadays they buy Paganis, Bugattis, or limited edition specials while the rest of us argue about whether a 720S handles better 488, if a manual gearbox is more involving to drive, or if an R8 is a real supercar or not. All discussions I am happy to participate in, but ones that don't occur in the rarified air of hypercar ownership. Ever heard anyone argue that they miss the driver involvement in a Veyron. or that a Valkyrie would just be so much better with a stick shift?
Now look another 30 years down the line, which of the supercars launched in the last 10 years will be an appreciating classic? The glut of new models, run-out variants, and availability of cheap credit driving over-supply will mean most of the current crop will end up on the scrap heap, banned from urban roads and too expensive to maintain as a weekend special or track day toy. Race variants will likely be the most sensible versions to hold on to (historically race history has added provenance) but the current desire to have the latest shiny thing means Ferrari 430 Challenges and Lamborghini Super Trofeos can currently be bought for less than 100k.
Times are a-changin' folk, never before have so many hypercars been launched in such a short period of time, what used to be special is no longer simply because the buyers at the top are now feeding higher up in the chain. Expect to lose money everywhere else.
Thirty years ago the super-wealthy bought Ferraris and Lamborghinis while Johnny-made-good had a Porsche or Merc. Nowadays they buy Paganis, Bugattis, or limited edition specials while the rest of us argue about whether a 720S handles better 488, if a manual gearbox is more involving to drive, or if an R8 is a real supercar or not. All discussions I am happy to participate in, but ones that don't occur in the rarified air of hypercar ownership. Ever heard anyone argue that they miss the driver involvement in a Veyron. or that a Valkyrie would just be so much better with a stick shift?
Now look another 30 years down the line, which of the supercars launched in the last 10 years will be an appreciating classic? The glut of new models, run-out variants, and availability of cheap credit driving over-supply will mean most of the current crop will end up on the scrap heap, banned from urban roads and too expensive to maintain as a weekend special or track day toy. Race variants will likely be the most sensible versions to hold on to (historically race history has added provenance) but the current desire to have the latest shiny thing means Ferrari 430 Challenges and Lamborghini Super Trofeos can currently be bought for less than 100k.
Times are a-changin' folk, never before have so many hypercars been launched in such a short period of time, what used to be special is no longer simply because the buyers at the top are now feeding higher up in the chain. Expect to lose money everywhere else.
I’m not sure that’s entirely true I have a couple of friends who can afford any car they want to buy in any bracket. They still get excited about stuff like a new Aventador or 720s. They just buy the hyper car stuff on top of the more normal stuff.
Although they do use there Ferrari’s etc more often than they perhaps would have almost like white goods.
Although they do use there Ferrari’s etc more often than they perhaps would have almost like white goods.
There's more money about now, quite a few people have played the property market increase over the years, a few shrewed moves and a Ferrari is in reach, finance is a lot easier without those crippling hp interest rates there once was. If you went back 40 years Mercs and Jags were signs you had made it, now they're common as a Ford Escort once was.
I don't think people realise how spoilt we've become.
I don't think people realise how spoilt we've become.
thecook101 said:
Now look another 30 years down the line, which of the supercars launched in the last 10 years will be an appreciating classic? The glut of new models, run-out variants, and availability of cheap credit driving over-supply will mean most of the current crop will end up on the scrap heap, banned from urban roads and too expensive to maintain as a weekend special or track day toy. Race variants will likely be the most sensible versions to hold on to (historically race history has added provenance) but the current desire to have the latest shiny thing means Ferrari 430 Challenges and Lamborghini Super Trofeos can currently be bought for less than 100k.
Times are a-changin' folk, never before have so many hypercars been launched in such a short period of time, what used to be special is no longer simply because the buyers at the top are now feeding higher up in the chain. Expect to lose money everywhere else.
Or maybe as they lose attractiveness because they become too common the trends will change and those cars will end up like the TulipsTimes are a-changin' folk, never before have so many hypercars been launched in such a short period of time, what used to be special is no longer simply because the buyers at the top are now feeding higher up in the chain. Expect to lose money everywhere else.
Raygun said:
There's more money about now, quite a few people have played the property market increase over the years, a few shrewed moves and a Ferrari is in reach, finance is a lot easier without those crippling hp interest rates there once was. If you went back 40 years Mercs and Jags were signs you had made it, now they're common as a Ford Escort once was.
I don't think people realise how spoilt we've become.
Mercs and jags are now taxis!I don't think people realise how spoilt we've become.
There are so many supercars about now, and as someone mentioned the chase to get the next newest shiny thing is in full swing.
It will certainly be interesting to see what happens to the used market over the next few years. Looking at recent posts it seems like we're already at the point where dealers refuse to buy cars back!
Raygun said:
There's more money about now, quite a few people have played the property market increase over the years, a few shrewed moves and a Ferrari is in reach, finance is a lot easier without those crippling hp interest rates there once was. If you went back 40 years Mercs and Jags were signs you had made it, now they're common as a Ford Escort once was.
I don't think people realise how spoilt we've become.
So true, I bought a 1 bed in Primrose Hill in 2005 and sold it to move to a 3 bed in Richmond SW London in 2009 and made enough money to buy a 997 at the same time. Not a supercar but would have been out of my reach before & on a greater scale I'm sure many bought a previously unafordable supercar through this.I don't think people realise how spoilt we've become.
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