Will Corona effect the Supercar Market
Discussion
LooneyTunes said:
IMI A said:
you needed a letter from your accountants confirming you are high net worth individual and in those days minimum assets of £500,000( I expect that figure far higher now).
If they were taking threshold for HNWI certification as the same as for investment products then it’d be much lower. £100k net income OR min assets of £250k, excluding primary residence. Bar is much higher for sophisticated investor status (which allows you to play more with the big boys/exotic product in the financial markets). They may in the future but I’d say since probably 2008 about half of my cars were financed, let’s say 3 or 4 were using this “high net worth” type of deal. Not one asked to see company accounts, mortgage valuations or proof of funds.
The most anyone did, which was Oracle was a company credit check to “pre approve” “me” for the finance. Even though the finance was in my name and not the company’s.
I was slightly concerned there was some fudge going on that tied in the company to the finance which despite what IMA says would now be a big no no from a BIK/tax perspective.
IMI A said:
Lease finance actually the same whether 15 yrs ago or today. Lease finance has been around for years. Its not the next PPI Sherlock.
I think you're mixing up between Lease purchase and straight leasing(Contract hire)..On a Lease purchase agreement there is no mechanism to allow the borrower to claim back a proportion of the VAT as there is no VAT within the monthlies..OTOH Leasing(Contract hire) where the car is always owned by the leasing company has a breakdown within the monthlies where the VAT is costed separately..If any monthlies allow up to 50% of the VAT to be reclaimed(VAT registered SE of businesses only) then its just hiring the car over a pre-agreed period where there is no option to own the car at the end of the term.
Very few people actually understand the differences between different forms of car finance which is why they get caught out.
Monthlies are no problem as long as they are affordable and no different to any other like Mobile phone, Sky contracts ,Personal loans or Mortgage payments..The trick is not not to over extend on these monthlies as a number of them can collectively become crippling financially.
For a company its a different all together to a self employed person. I'm back on shore later this year so will be interesting to see what you can and can't do on lease hire. The biggest problem they will have selling these deals is that their USP was being able to set un unrealistically high balloon. This made your monthly payments very low. FCA surely must have killed high balloons for sure but if not even the finance co won't take the high balloon risk any more. I certainly wouldn't in their shoes.
It will also be interesting to see the finance deals on offer in the next 6 months. I'm still scratching my head at the 180k 600LT GFV residual. Come on someone clever please tell us how they have managed to do this. Its some of the most creative finance I've ever come across.
It will also be interesting to see the finance deals on offer in the next 6 months. I'm still scratching my head at the 180k 600LT GFV residual. Come on someone clever please tell us how they have managed to do this. Its some of the most creative finance I've ever come across.
Taffy66 said:
IMI A said:
Lease finance actually the same whether 15 yrs ago or today. Lease finance has been around for years. Its not the next PPI Sherlock.
I think you're mixing up between Lease purchase and straight leasing(Contract hire)..On a Lease purchase agreement there is no mechanism to allow the borrower to claim back a proportion of the VAT as there is no VAT within the monthlies..OTOH Leasing(Contract hire) where the car is always owned by the leasing company has a breakdown within the monthlies where the VAT is costed separately..If any monthlies allow up to 50% of the VAT to be reclaimed(VAT registered SE of businesses only) then its just hiring the car over a pre-agreed period where there is no option to own the car at the end of the term.
Very few people actually understand the differences between different forms of car finance which is why they get caught out.
Monthlies are no problem as long as they are affordable and no different to any other like Mobile phone, Sky contracts ,Personal loans or Mortgage payments..The trick is not not to over extend on these monthlies as a number of them can collectively become crippling financially.
IMI A said:
It will also be interesting to see the finance deals on offer in the next 6 months. I'm still scratching my head at the 180k 600LT GFV residual. Come on someone clever please tell us how they have managed to do this. Its some of the most creative finance I've ever come across.
Where have you seen a £180K GFV on a 600LT.?If true then finance companies are going to take a massive bath on these deals.!I'm wondering if McLaren are the ones actually underwriting these totally unrealistic GFVs to boost sales and improve short term cash flow.
If that's the case then McLaren are going to be in serious financial trouble in a year or so.
Taffy66 said:
IMI A said:
It will also be interesting to see the finance deals on offer in the next 6 months. I'm still scratching my head at the 180k 600LT GFV residual. Come on someone clever please tell us how they have managed to do this. Its some of the most creative finance I've ever come across.
Where have you seen a £180K GFV on a 600LT.?If true then finance companies are going to take a massive bath on these deals.!I'm wondering if McLaren are the ones actually underwriting these totally unrealistic GFVs to boost sales and improve short term cash flow.
If that's the case then McLaren are going to be in serious financial trouble in a year or so.
IMI A said:
Taffy66 said:
IMI A said:
It will also be interesting to see the finance deals on offer in the next 6 months. I'm still scratching my head at the 180k 600LT GFV residual. Come on someone clever please tell us how they have managed to do this. Its some of the most creative finance I've ever come across.
Where have you seen a £180K GFV on a 600LT.?If true then finance companies are going to take a massive bath on these deals.!I'm wondering if McLaren are the ones actually underwriting these totally unrealistic GFVs to boost sales and improve short term cash flow.
If that's the case then McLaren are going to be in serious financial trouble in a year or so.
I fancy a 720, but any offers I make will be Necky to the point of insulting!
Fckitdriveon said:
IMI A said:
Taffy66 said:
IMI A said:
It will also be interesting to see the finance deals on offer in the next 6 months. I'm still scratching my head at the 180k 600LT GFV residual. Come on someone clever please tell us how they have managed to do this. Its some of the most creative finance I've ever come across.
Where have you seen a £180K GFV on a 600LT.?If true then finance companies are going to take a massive bath on these deals.!I'm wondering if McLaren are the ones actually underwriting these totally unrealistic GFVs to boost sales and improve short term cash flow.
If that's the case then McLaren are going to be in serious financial trouble in a year or so.
I fancy a 720, but any offers I make will be Necky to the point of insulting!
Ferruccio said:
Fckitdriveon said:
IMI A said:
Taffy66 said:
IMI A said:
It will also be interesting to see the finance deals on offer in the next 6 months. I'm still scratching my head at the 180k 600LT GFV residual. Come on someone clever please tell us how they have managed to do this. Its some of the most creative finance I've ever come across.
Where have you seen a £180K GFV on a 600LT.?If true then finance companies are going to take a massive bath on these deals.!I'm wondering if McLaren are the ones actually underwriting these totally unrealistic GFVs to boost sales and improve short term cash flow.
If that's the case then McLaren are going to be in serious financial trouble in a year or so.
I fancy a 720, but any offers I make will be Necky to the point of insulting!
ghost83 said:
Don’t know if it’s telling but a Ferrari 612 just sold on collecting cars for 47k which is over 20k cheaper than the lowest on autotrader
I was watching this sale also. The seller is Roger C and noted as trade in Maidstone.So I'm assuming this is Roger, owner of The Ferrari Centre (aka KHPC) moving some stock or sales on behalf of clients whilst the world is closed.
He also has a 575 waiting to go live on the same site.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2003-ferrari-5...
IMI A said:
Its a Mcl main dealer deal on new 600LT a friend took a week before the partial lock down so may well no longer be on offer. Small deposit £10k. Small monthly payments. Huge £180k GFV or hand back. I'm lost and used to be in finance! Cost to punter £46k over two years. You can go and buy a used 600LT for £150k in classifieds for cash and I reckon I'll lose more if sold in two years.
Struggle to believe that, I can't see the purchase price would even have been £180k...let alone the GFV. Regardless though and good on him, best way to buy a car at the moment if you're comfortable with the monthly payments and total cost over 2 years; then just hand the car back, don't need to worry about depreciation, mileage etc and can actually just get out and enjoy it. Otherwise, would likely be keeping a very close eye on the market and getting very nervousLaurasOtherHalf said:
As reported on BBC breakfast this morning, car payments will be given a 3 month holiday to be announced next week (as well as credit cards).
They didn't make any distinction between PCP, Car Loan, Leases or indeed Lease Purchase
If impacted by coronavirus.They didn't make any distinction between PCP, Car Loan, Leases or indeed Lease Purchase
And it’s a holiday. It does not reduce what’s owed, it just changes the timing.
21ATS said:
I was watching this sale also. The seller is Roger C and noted as trade in Maidstone.
So I'm assuming this is Roger, owner of The Ferrari Centre (aka KHPC) moving some stock or sales on behalf of clients whilst the world is closed.
He also has a 575 waiting to go live on the same site.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2003-ferrari-5...
That 612 was surprising: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2004-ferrari-6...So I'm assuming this is Roger, owner of The Ferrari Centre (aka KHPC) moving some stock or sales on behalf of clients whilst the world is closed.
He also has a 575 waiting to go live on the same site.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2003-ferrari-5...
Last week when a Lancia Delta was reaching the end it jumped £25k in the final few minutes a la eBay.
This is reaching the end in a couple hours:https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2001-ferrari-360-spider-f1
This looks inexpensive but has a while to run: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1987-ferrari-3...
ghost83 said:
I think it’s quite telling and dealers will be taking notice
612 at 47k
360 spider currently at 45k
328 at 30k
If that’s where the values are at then I think it’s happening quite quick
I personally think that's what these cars were actually worth pre corona.612 at 47k
360 spider currently at 45k
328 at 30k
If that’s where the values are at then I think it’s happening quite quick
Its just post 2008 all over again where cars were brought down to the 'correct' values...the last 6 years have just been daft.
I wonder how many posters whom have said 'i wish i had bought a 360spider when they were £35-40k' over the years will now actually buy one....probably none.
All these old expensive to maintain 15-20 year old Ferraris and Lambos that have been advertised for sale for ages at £75 -125k are now either keepers or heartbreak material for the owners.
Not a doommonger...i still have the t-shirts from the last 2 times the arse fell out of the world and my then 'exotica' halved in value overnight and here i am again with a McLaren!
Morale if the story is...it didn't put me off then and it won't out me off now...life is too short so if you get the opportunity to grab a dream, do it.
In both previous times i took advantage and traded up to better versions that previously were beyond my reach...prob do exactly the same this time.
650spider said:
I personally think that's what these cars were actually worth pre corona.
Its just post 2008 all over again where cars were brought down to the 'correct' values...the last 6 years have just been daft.
I wonder how many posters whom have said 'i wish i had bought a 360spider when they were £35-40k' over the years will now actually buy one....probably none.
All these old expensive to maintain 15-20 year old Ferraris and Lambos that have been advertised for sale for ages at £75 -125k are now either keepers or heartbreak material for the owners.
Not a doommonger...i still have the t-shirts from the last 2 times the arse fell out of the world and my then 'exotica' halved in value overnight and here i am again with a McLaren!
Morale if the story is...it didn't put me off then and it won't out me off now...life is too short so if you get the opportunity to grab a dream, do it.
In both previous times i took advantage and traded up to better versions that previously were beyond my reach...prob do exactly the same this time.
You're kind of describing me here. Its just post 2008 all over again where cars were brought down to the 'correct' values...the last 6 years have just been daft.
I wonder how many posters whom have said 'i wish i had bought a 360spider when they were £35-40k' over the years will now actually buy one....probably none.
All these old expensive to maintain 15-20 year old Ferraris and Lambos that have been advertised for sale for ages at £75 -125k are now either keepers or heartbreak material for the owners.
Not a doommonger...i still have the t-shirts from the last 2 times the arse fell out of the world and my then 'exotica' halved in value overnight and here i am again with a McLaren!
Morale if the story is...it didn't put me off then and it won't out me off now...life is too short so if you get the opportunity to grab a dream, do it.
In both previous times i took advantage and traded up to better versions that previously were beyond my reach...prob do exactly the same this time.
I've been actively shopping for Ferrari for over two years, first a 575 then I realised I actually wanted a 550 after I'd driven a few F1 575's then a manual - I fell in love with the manual.
I'd saved my pennies to buy one and was faced with inappropriately priced cars in all manner of conditions.
What we're seeing now is pricing returning to normality, not a crash. How far further they drop will be interesting.
Will I buy one? I look daily, but now all my savings are going to be pumped into my business for cashflow as the goverment and banks seem to be completely incapable of administering the CBILS business interuption scheme. At least I'm in the position to self finance - but it comes at the cost of toys.
Once we start to see sub £50K 550 maranellos though I'm going to be working out how I can get one now as long as a nice spec comes available. Newer stuff just no longer interests me.
650spider said:
I personally think that's what these cars were actually worth pre corona.
Its just post 2008 all over again where cars were brought down to the 'correct' values...the last 6 years have just been daft.
I wonder how many posters whom have said 'i wish i had bought a 360spider when they were £35-40k' over the years will now actually buy one....probably none.
All these old expensive to maintain 15-20 year old Ferraris and Lambos that have been advertised for sale for ages at £75 -125k are now either keepers or heartbreak material for the owners.
Not a doommonger...i still have the t-shirts from the last 2 times the arse fell out of the world and my then 'exotica' halved in value overnight and here i am again with a McLaren!
Morale if the story is...it didn't put me off then and it won't out me off now...life is too short so if you get the opportunity to grab a dream, do it.
In both previous times i took advantage and traded up to better versions that previously were beyond my reach...prob do exactly the same this time.
Well as I’ve personally always said I want to buy either a manual Gallardo or a 12c/650s so depending on where they settle I will then consider it, But for now I’m overpaying on my mortgage every month,Its just post 2008 all over again where cars were brought down to the 'correct' values...the last 6 years have just been daft.
I wonder how many posters whom have said 'i wish i had bought a 360spider when they were £35-40k' over the years will now actually buy one....probably none.
All these old expensive to maintain 15-20 year old Ferraris and Lambos that have been advertised for sale for ages at £75 -125k are now either keepers or heartbreak material for the owners.
Not a doommonger...i still have the t-shirts from the last 2 times the arse fell out of the world and my then 'exotica' halved in value overnight and here i am again with a McLaren!
Morale if the story is...it didn't put me off then and it won't out me off now...life is too short so if you get the opportunity to grab a dream, do it.
In both previous times i took advantage and traded up to better versions that previously were beyond my reach...prob do exactly the same this time.
If a 12c spider or 650s spider hits 40-50k I just might as I’m sure the warranty costs will not be in mclarens favour for a lot of people! Hence I’m quite happy watching for the next 3-6-12 month
ghost83 said:
650spider said:
I personally think that's what these cars were actually worth pre corona.
Its just post 2008 all over again where cars were brought down to the 'correct' values...the last 6 years have just been daft.
I wonder how many posters whom have said 'i wish i had bought a 360spider when they were £35-40k' over the years will now actually buy one....probably none.
All these old expensive to maintain 15-20 year old Ferraris and Lambos that have been advertised for sale for ages at £75 -125k are now either keepers or heartbreak material for the owners.
Not a doommonger...i still have the t-shirts from the last 2 times the arse fell out of the world and my then 'exotica' halved in value overnight and here i am again with a McLaren!
Morale if the story is...it didn't put me off then and it won't out me off now...life is too short so if you get the opportunity to grab a dream, do it.
In both previous times i took advantage and traded up to better versions that previously were beyond my reach...prob do exactly the same this time.
Well as I’ve personally always said I want to buy either a manual Gallardo or a 12c/650s so depending on where they settle I will then consider it, But for now I’m overpaying on my mortgage every month,Its just post 2008 all over again where cars were brought down to the 'correct' values...the last 6 years have just been daft.
I wonder how many posters whom have said 'i wish i had bought a 360spider when they were £35-40k' over the years will now actually buy one....probably none.
All these old expensive to maintain 15-20 year old Ferraris and Lambos that have been advertised for sale for ages at £75 -125k are now either keepers or heartbreak material for the owners.
Not a doommonger...i still have the t-shirts from the last 2 times the arse fell out of the world and my then 'exotica' halved in value overnight and here i am again with a McLaren!
Morale if the story is...it didn't put me off then and it won't out me off now...life is too short so if you get the opportunity to grab a dream, do it.
In both previous times i took advantage and traded up to better versions that previously were beyond my reach...prob do exactly the same this time.
If a 12c spider or 650s spider hits 40-50k I just might as I’m sure the warranty costs will not be in mclarens favour for a lot of people! Hence I’m quite happy watching for the next 3-6-12 month
But as i said before, a lot of people say they will buy one if it goes to 'x' price, but then never do.
650spider said:
To be fair if a 650 spider falls to £40k in the next 3-6-12 mths, that would mean the aforementioned Ferrari 360s and Gallardos would have a price starting with a 2 or even a 1....so you could have your pic of the bunch.
But as i said before, a lot of people say they will buy one if it goes to 'x' price, but then never do.
Tbh I’m expecting a 12c to hit around 40k and 650s 50k with the spider variants a little bit more and Gallardos around the 50k area, I’ll be completely honest I’m not in a position to atm! Although after selling my gti on ph I do have 17k as a deposit just sitting there doing nothing, but will have to see what the future holds, But as i said before, a lot of people say they will buy one if it goes to 'x' price, but then never do.
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