Collecting Cars auction results

[will_]

C4ME said:

bish_345 said:

None of the UK sites is a patch on Bring a Trailer in the US at present. Bring a Trailer is completely transparent and maintains an online archive of every auction (whether the car sold or not) containing the entirety of the bidding and the comments on the car. The real difference between Bring a Trailer and eg CC is the "comment" section. The "comment" section in CC seem to be little more than a recital of placed bids. In the case of Bring a Trailer, reading the comments is like reading a PH marque specific forum thread interspersed with occasional bids. The auction site attracts a very large audience ( 125,000 views and 800+ comments on a Miura last month). The comments invariably include very pertinent and/or helpfully geeky observations from knowledgeable people. Admittedly you have to wade through quite a few simplistic cheerleading comments (but that's just the less bottled up US character showing its appreciation for the excitement of an auction). It is the benefit of a car going under this very public microscope of a large critical audience, rather than any "due diligence" by the auction company, that would persuade me to buy on Bring a Trailer as opposed to CC. Plus, the BaT fee is capped at $5,000 rather than the c.$7,700 of CC. So the chap who bought the very nice Miura for $990k only paid a $5k buyer's premium. Compare that to Bonhams/Sotheby's et al......

I had not looked at BaT for a good few years with it being US based and have just spent an hour browsing it. You are right it is a level above anything else out there and they should really bring it over here. The comments and transparancy make it so much better.

Although what is to stop an unscrupulous bidder "commenting" adversely about a particular car (or even hinting at something) in order to try to bag a bargain? There is a danger in allowing unfettered comments to be made public.

[Bobo W]

Rob_F said:

SFTWend said:

They only have a fraction of the overheads compared to a traditional auction house so to expect some due diligence in exchange for the 6% buyers fee is not unreasonable.

I think this is a fair point. I was under the impression, certainly at the outset, that CC had a value proposition over and above a generic auction site. The fact it does not, and that one can't really rely on the description anymore than you could on eBay, puts me off anyway. Whether it puts others off or the market as a whole I have no idea.

I obviously don't buy enough cars but would you expect any vendor be they auction house / dealer to do the level of checks you're after? Everyone charges a fee after all. I'm not convinced by the lack of transparency, there's quite a lot of questions being asked in the cars I'm watching, but obviously you need to register beforehand which means in general you don't then need to do any chat-room style monitoring

Looking at the advertisements on CC invariably when they say FSH they list it, which isn't something you see very often, so it's not too difficult to pick up the phone yourself and check if you want?

I would have thought the value proposition of online auctions platforms like CC and The Market is the 0% commission on either the buy / sell point, unlike a traditional you can not only see the car but test drive it should you wish and given the issues of monies not being paid by certain other traditional auction houses, the monetary transaction is direct between buyer and seller. The biggest downside for me is the short window meaning it's difficult to arrange a pre-purchase inspection and it would useful to have a guide on pricing.

[Luke.]

500 Miles said:

I was lucky enough this week to win the auction of the red F355 - the car does look in great condition and I’m looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.

I managed to get the polar silver 993 Turbo last month and have been really impressed with it - the car is even better in the flesh than it was in the photos.

Really impressed by Collecting Cars so far.

Well, CINE shares ain't paying for that, that's for sure. Looks stunning.

[Matty3]

500 Miles said:

I was lucky enough this week to win the auction of the red F355 - the car does look in great condition and I’m looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.

I managed to get the polar silver 993 Turbo last month and have been really impressed with it - the car is even better in the flesh than it was in the photos.

Really impressed by Collecting Cars so far.

Nice one - please post up when you have collected your 355. I've bid on a couple of CC cars to date but have not been successful - always good to hear folks experiences.

[lukeharding]

C4ME said:

I am sure these online auctions will improve as competition hots up between them. I have been looking at one today that I have not seen before and really like it www.themarket.co.uk Takes many of the principles of CC but does a couple of things in a better way in my opinion.

Also the new Car & Classic one includes an escrow service which I really like (but overall I don't think C&C do other bits as well).

Edited by C4ME on Monday 27th July 22:24

The Market has been going longer, and have more of the 'firsts' out of the two, despite what CC puts out (in the form of paid articles). The Market are good and easy to deal with from both a buying and selling perspective, and the listings are well written (plus the hundreds of photos help, and you can add comments, like BaT, though it doesn't have that community so far). I've used a lot of the traditional auctions, but not used CC so far. Got put off by certain staff member's social media attitude a while ago.

[jamies30]

lukeharding said:

The Market are good and easy to deal with from both a buying and selling perspective, and the listings are well written

I don’t know much about them, except that they described the SZ they sold earlier this year as ‘near concours’, when it looked to be a bit of a project. Makes them difficult to trust, for me.

[Rob_F]

Bobo W said:

Rob_F said:

SFTWend said:

They only have a fraction of the overheads compared to a traditional auction house so to expect some due diligence in exchange for the 6% buyers fee is not unreasonable.

I think this is a fair point. I was under the impression, certainly at the outset, that CC had a value proposition over and above a generic auction site. The fact it does not, and that one can't really rely on the description anymore than you could on eBay, puts me off anyway. Whether it puts others off or the market as a whole I have no idea.

I obviously don't buy enough cars but would you expect any vendor be they auction house / dealer to do the level of checks you're after? Everyone charges a fee after all. I'm not convinced by the lack of transparency, there's quite a lot of questions being asked in the cars I'm watching, but obviously you need to register beforehand which means in general you don't then need to do any chat-room style monitoring

Looking at the advertisements on CC invariably when they say FSH they list it, which isn't something you see very often, so it's not too difficult to pick up the phone yourself and check if you want?

I would have thought the value proposition of online auctions platforms like CC and The Market is the 0% commission on either the buy / sell point, unlike a traditional you can not only see the car but test drive it should you wish and given the issues of monies not being paid by certain other traditional auction houses, the monetary transaction is direct between buyer and seller. The biggest downside for me is the short window meaning it's difficult to arrange a pre-purchase inspection and it would useful to have a guide on pricing.

All totally fair points. I hadn't actually realised how much typical audition houses charge to sell cars so in many ways this is a cheaper version of a typical auction rather than something which offers additional security. And I can get that, it makes sense.

As per another poster's comment though the prices are close enough to some dealers that I'd probably just look at well regarded dealers than chance my arm here. Might make more sense if you're buying either a lot of cars or have a higher risk tolerance, though.

[belfry]

jamies30 said:

I don’t know much about them, except that they described the SZ they sold earlier this year as ‘near concours’, when it looked to be a bit of a project. Makes them difficult to trust, for me.

I have bought 2 cars from The Market (DB9 Volante and a Merc SL). Both times they were accurate, honest and a pleasure to deal with.

[S1ufo]

I've sold two cars on CC in the last few weeks (355 Spider and 1954 Beetle) - I've been more than happy with both deals, and I've had two very happy buyers too.

Having changed cars so many times over the years, both these sales we undoubtably the smoothest sales I've ever made - I couldn't recommend the site enough.

[Cheib]

will_ said:

Another fairly strong set of results from Silverstone Auctions over the weekend, given the circumstances.

Some lots did well but overall it seemed like a bot of a struggle when I watched a bit of it. Quite a few cars were no reserve so the sell through rate looks good.


2k km Testarossa sold for £70k with an estimate of £100k to £120k. Don’t know anything about them and car could be a dog but seeemed cheap !

Early flat floor Series 1 E- Tyrpe sold for £100k with an estimate of £130k to £150k. Again could be a bad car !

[anonymous-user]

Cheib said:

2k km Testarossa sold for £70k with an estimate of £100k to £120k. Don’t know anything about them and car could be a dog but seeemed cheap !

I think that is a bit of a correction. There are plenty of Testarossas out there wanting new owners and many have inflated price tags. Unlike a lot of Ferraris, I think youd really have to want one of these if that makes sense. There are plenty of other models that are better IMO.

[ettore]

Cheib said:

will_ said:

Another fairly strong set of results from Silverstone Auctions over the weekend, given the circumstances.

Some lots did well but overall it seemed like a bot of a struggle when I watched a bit of it. Quite a few cars were no reserve so the sell through rate looks good.


2k km Testarossa sold for £70k with an estimate of £100k to £120k. Don’t know anything about them and car could be a dog but seeemed cheap !

Early flat floor Series 1 E- Tyrpe sold for £100k with an estimate of £130k to £150k. Again could be a bad car !

You pick two of perhaps about 5 soft prices - look at the rest!

[bish_345]

C4ME said:

If they are making up crap they get called out for it by the buyer or by other contributors to the thread. The advantage of a large comunity on BaT as they seem to have lots of comments and contributers on each car. Gets robust on occasion but overall it seems more open and authentic with cars subjected to better scrutiny.

Edited by C4ME on Monday 3rd August 19:15

Correct. In addition, there is a simple procedure whereby any comment can be "flagged as non-constructive". This prompts a review of the comment by the BaT staff. So to that extent the comments are moderated.

BaT's stated philosophy on allowing comments is: "Each auction has a comment thread where the BaT community discusses the vehicle and asks the seller questions. Sellers are encouraged to be active participants in the comments section - answering questions and engaging with the community increases bidder confidence".
I think they are right.

[bish_345]

ettore said:

Cheib said:

will_ said:

Another fairly strong set of results from Silverstone Auctions over the weekend, given the circumstances.

Some lots did well but overall it seemed like a bot of a struggle when I watched a bit of it. Quite a few cars were no reserve so the sell through rate looks good.


2k km Testarossa sold for £70k with an estimate of £100k to £120k. Don’t know anything about them and car could be a dog but seeemed cheap !

Early flat floor Series 1 E- Tyrpe sold for £100k with an estimate of £130k to £150k. Again could be a bad car !

You pick two of perhaps about 5 soft prices - look at the rest!

Looks like the sell-through rate was just under 80%.
It seemed to me that the majority of sold cars hammered for slightly under low reserve, with only the 15% premium (12.5 plus VAT) taking the total "sold" price into the range of the estimate. Much the same as has been the case in most auctions for the last year or two - i.e. the majority of cars are not being bid beyond low estimate.
Then again, someone paid 158k for a 1972 Bentley Corniche convertible....

[will_]

bish_345 said:

ettore said:

Cheib said:

will_ said:

Another fairly strong set of results from Silverstone Auctions over the weekend, given the circumstances.

Some lots did well but overall it seemed like a bot of a struggle when I watched a bit of it. Quite a few cars were no reserve so the sell through rate looks good.


2k km Testarossa sold for £70k with an estimate of £100k to £120k. Don’t know anything about them and car could be a dog but seeemed cheap !

Early flat floor Series 1 E- Tyrpe sold for £100k with an estimate of £130k to £150k. Again could be a bad car !

You pick two of perhaps about 5 soft prices - look at the rest!

Looks like the sell-through rate was just under 80%.
It seemed to me that the majority of sold cars hammered for slightly under low reserve, with only the 15% premium (12.5 plus VAT) taking the total "sold" price into the range of the estimate. Much the same as has been the case in most auctions for the last year or two - i.e. the majority of cars are not being bid beyond low estimate.
Then again, someone paid 158k for a 1972 Bentley Corniche convertible....

Indeed - I think both the auction house and the vendors were being reasonably sensible on pricing, as there has definitely been some softening of the market. But it was far from a bloodbath - someone paid £130k for an Imprezza!

[lukeharding]

jamies30 said:

I don’t know much about them, except that they described the SZ they sold earlier this year as ‘near concours’, when it looked to be a bit of a project. Makes them difficult to trust, for me.

I can't remember it to be honest. I've always found them to be accurate though, but a lot of it does rely on the vendor's description of a car (as with all auction houses). It is also a point that with any auction, you should always use your own judgement and inspect the cars yourself. You're the only person you can trust when it comes to large sums of money - and that goes for any and all auctions or forms of sale.

I'm sure we could all go to any of the main auctioneers and find fault in a listing - it does happen, even if only because of the amount of vehicles that go through.

[Cheib]

ettore said:

Cheib said:

will_ said:

Another fairly strong set of results from Silverstone Auctions over the weekend, given the circumstances.

Some lots did well but overall it seemed like a bot of a struggle when I watched a bit of it. Quite a few cars were no reserve so the sell through rate looks good.


2k km Testarossa sold for £70k with an estimate of £100k to £120k. Don’t know anything about them and car could be a dog but seeemed cheap !

Early flat floor Series 1 E- Tyrpe sold for £100k with an estimate of £130k to £150k. Again could be a bad car !

You pick two of perhaps about 5 soft prices - look at the rest!

I’ll agree to differ...there were a lot more than 5 cars which had poor results. Here’s two more examples....look at the two 993 Turbo S’s...collecting cars recently had one a 24k mile car bid to £270k which didn’t sell. One 29k mile car sold for £235k plus comm and a 34k mile car sold for £212k plus comm. Those were weak results whichever way you look at it.

I’d say the sell through rate was because of realistic (or perhaps motivated) sellers as a lot of the cars were no reserve rather than strong bids.

[bish_345]

Cheib said:

ettore said:

Cheib said:

will_ said:

Another fairly strong set of results from Silverstone Auctions over the weekend, given the circumstances.

Some lots did well but overall it seemed like a bot of a struggle when I watched a bit of it. Quite a few cars were no reserve so the sell through rate looks good.


2k km Testarossa sold for £70k with an estimate of £100k to £120k. Don’t know anything about them and car could be a dog but seeemed cheap !

Early flat floor Series 1 E- Tyrpe sold for £100k with an estimate of £130k to £150k. Again could be a bad car !

You pick two of perhaps about 5 soft prices - look at the rest!

I’ll agree to differ...there were a lot more than 5 cars which had poor results. Here’s two more examples....look at the two 993 Turbo S’s...collecting cars recently had one a 24k mile car bid to £270k which didn’t sell. One 29k mile car sold for £235k plus comm and a 34k mile car sold for £212k plus comm. Those were weak results whichever way you look at it.

I’d say the sell through rate was because of realistic (or perhaps motivated) sellers as a lot of the cars were no reserve rather than strong bids.

The auction had a fairly positive write up in Simon Kidston's K500 letter today. 73% of cars sold. As I suggested, the majority of sold reserve cars did not beat low estimate (57%) but that's at least as good as most auctions in the last year or two where that percentage is often in the 60s or 70s. Equally, the percentage of sold cars which met or exceeded the high estimate was 19%. That is also a good number compared to most recent auctions . As for the "no reserve" point, don't be misled by the fact that the first 30 cars on Saturday were all no reserve. There were only 8 other no reserve cars in the two day auction so the total percentage of no reserve cars was only 16%. Or, looked at another way, 84% of the cars were reserve cars.

[ferrisbueller]

Cheib said:

ettore said:

Cheib said:

will_ said:

Another fairly strong set of results from Silverstone Auctions over the weekend, given the circumstances.

Some lots did well but overall it seemed like a bot of a struggle when I watched a bit of it. Quite a few cars were no reserve so the sell through rate looks good.


2k km Testarossa sold for £70k with an estimate of £100k to £120k. Don’t know anything about them and car could be a dog but seeemed cheap !

Early flat floor Series 1 E- Tyrpe sold for £100k with an estimate of £130k to £150k. Again could be a bad car !

You pick two of perhaps about 5 soft prices - look at the rest!

I’ll agree to differ...there were a lot more than 5 cars which had poor results. Here’s two more examples....look at the two 993 Turbo S’s...collecting cars recently had one a 24k mile car bid to £270k which didn’t sell. One 29k mile car sold for £235k plus comm and a 34k mile car sold for £212k plus comm. Those were weak results whichever way you look at it.

I’d say the sell through rate was because of realistic (or perhaps motivated) sellers as a lot of the cars were no reserve rather than strong bids.

Add the 15% comm, plus the additional 1% + VAT for distance bid and the numbers start converging.

[caminator11]

I feel like someone got a great deal on that lovely looking 488 Spyder today