Collecting Cars auction results

[anonymous-user]

9Elfer said:

Drclarke said:

Overnight, Have some posts questioning the collecting cars business ethics been deleted?

Yes seems probably 6-8 posts are gone.

Would think that means something key/of consumer value is being raised here.

No conspiracy chaps, my posts were deleted as I was advertising the sale of my car.

[9Elfer]

21ATS said:

The issue here is the status of the sale of a motor vehicle can only be one of two - Private or Trade. There is no third "goldilocks" option where all the professionals get paid and none of them are required to take any legal responsibility.

Edited by 21ATS on Friday 23 October 09:05

The managed option is trying to pretend to be a dealer sale without protecting the consumer to the consumer rights act but giving them an escape door and pretending to be a private sale when something ajar happens.

Is Donald trump a shareholder in CC?

[drcarrera]

Isn't it simply based on the ownership of the car being sold?
Trade - trader owns the car
Private - private owner owns the car
Managed - Trader selling on behalf of private owner (aka SOR)

So shouldn't the consumer rights be the same as a SOR sale from a dealer?

[21ATS]

drcarrera said:

Isn't it simply based on the ownership of the car being sold?
Trade - trader owns the car
Private - private owner owns the car
Managed - Trader selling on behalf of private owner (aka SOR)

So shouldn't the consumer rights be the same as a SOR sale from a dealer?

IMO yes, CC claim it's a private sale and not subject to any consumer rights whatsoever.

I disagree and I'm reasonably sure the law would too should it be tested.

Still this would put the managing trader on the hook, not CC.

[andymc]

No difference from Manheim and BCA is it?

[Trevor555]

andymc said:

No difference from Manheim and BCA is it?

Their indemnity fee guarantees you title to the car, or your money back.

[9Elfer]

drcarrera said:

Isn't it simply based on the ownership of the car being sold?
Trade - trader owns the car
Private - private owner owns the car
Managed - Trader selling on behalf of private owner (aka SOR)

So shouldn't the consumer rights be the same as a SOR sale from a dealer?

I agree with this logic but from the CC site you can tell they don’t think managed is the same as Trade as they don’t explicitly state you are protected by the consumer rights.

[Bobo W]

9Elfer said:

drcarrera said:

Isn't it simply based on the ownership of the car being sold?
Trade - trader owns the car
Private - private owner owns the car
Managed - Trader selling on behalf of private owner (aka SOR)

So shouldn't the consumer rights be the same as a SOR sale from a dealer?

I agree with this logic but from the CC site you can tell they don’t think managed is the same as Trade as they don’t explicitly state you are protected by the consumer rights.

CC is an auction platform - they are not an auction house or trader they merely facilitate the process between two private individuals - think eBay if it makes it easier - the rights therefore are essentially the same as a private sale - for the lawyers amongst us it would be interesting to see their take on online auctions but I imagine even the final price would be treated as an offer and the contract only made when the seller makes contact and gives payment details

[Ferruccio]

Bobo W said:

CC is an auction platform - they are not an auction house or trader they merely facilitate the process between two private individuals - think eBay if it makes it easier - the rights therefore are essentially the same as a private sale - for the lawyers amongst us it would be interesting to see their take on online auctions but I imagine even the final price would be treated as an offer and the contract only made when the seller makes contact and gives payment details

I’d be rather surprised if a judge, being asked to opine on the point, wouldn’t hold that a trade vendor selling a vehicle, was a trade vendor selling a vehicle.

[Bobo W]

Ferruccio said:

Bobo W said:

CC is an auction platform - they are not an auction house or trader they merely facilitate the process between two private individuals - think eBay if it makes it easier - the rights therefore are essentially the same as a private sale - for the lawyers amongst us it would be interesting to see their take on online auctions but I imagine even the final price would be treated as an offer and the contract only made when the seller makes contact and gives payment details

I’d be rather surprised if a judge, being asked to opine on the point, wouldn’t hold that a trade vendor selling a vehicle, was a trade vendor selling a vehicle.

I'm not sure I follow? CC is just a means of getting buyer & seller together, they are no more a dealer than I am irrespective of who the backers of this venture are. So if I buy / sell to another private individual through CC it's a private sale, but if I buy from a trader through CC then it's a trade sale and all the rights that subsequently come with it. It all seems quite simple to me, but maybe I'm just a simpleton?

[GT4RS]

Bobo W said:

Ferruccio said:

Bobo W said:

CC is an auction platform - they are not an auction house or trader they merely facilitate the process between two private individuals - think eBay if it makes it easier - the rights therefore are essentially the same as a private sale - for the lawyers amongst us it would be interesting to see their take on online auctions but I imagine even the final price would be treated as an offer and the contract only made when the seller makes contact and gives payment details

I’d be rather surprised if a judge, being asked to opine on the point, wouldn’t hold that a trade vendor selling a vehicle, was a trade vendor selling a vehicle.

I'm not sure I follow? CC is just a means of getting buyer & seller together, they are no more a dealer than I am irrespective of who the backers of this venture are. So if I buy / sell to another private individual through CC it's a private sale, but if I buy from a trader through CC then it's a trade sale and all the rights that subsequently come with it. It all seems quite simple to me, but maybe I'm just a simpleton?

What you are saying appears correct, but to make it clear for all of us asking these questions it would be great if it could be confirmed.

Private to private = private sale
Trade to private = trade sale
Managed sale looks to be a privately owned vehicle being sold by motor trade on behalf of its owner = SOR, which would make it a trade sale as the motor trade companies aren’t offering their services for free.

I’m sure this post is being monitored by the companies mentioned, so a simple reply would help clear up the possible confusion being discussed.

[Ferruccio]

Bobo W said:

Ferruccio said:

Bobo W said:

CC is an auction platform - they are not an auction house or trader they merely facilitate the process between two private individuals - think eBay if it makes it easier - the rights therefore are essentially the same as a private sale - for the lawyers amongst us it would be interesting to see their take on online auctions but I imagine even the final price would be treated as an offer and the contract only made when the seller makes contact and gives payment details

I’d be rather surprised if a judge, being asked to opine on the point, wouldn’t hold that a trade vendor selling a vehicle, was a trade vendor selling a vehicle.

I'm not sure I follow? CC is just a means of getting buyer & seller together, they are no more a dealer than I am irrespective of who the backers of this venture are. So if I buy / sell to another private individual through CC it's a private sale, but if I buy from a trader through CC then it's a trade sale and all the rights that subsequently come with it. It all seems quite simple to me, but maybe I'm just a simpleton?

All I’m saying is that a trade seller can’t turn themselves into a private seller by using CC, which some people seem to be implying?

[21ATS]

Bobo W said:

I'm not sure I follow? CC is just a means of getting buyer & seller together, they are no more a dealer than I am irrespective of who the backers of this venture are. So if I buy / sell to another private individual through CC it's a private sale, but if I buy from a trader through CC then it's a trade sale and all the rights that subsequently come with it. It all seems quite simple to me, but maybe I'm just a simpleton?

You're getting slightly confused.

CC can not be considered a trade seller - they are nothing more than an advertising platform.

It's the "Managed" sale part that is in question here, we're using the 612 sale purely as an example as it fit the criteria we're discussing.

The 612 is being advertised on CC for sale as "Managed". The company managing the sale is DK Engineering, the well known and respected Ferrari Motor Trader/Dealer. DK are being paid by the 612 owner to manage the sale (for whatever reason).

CC are claiming this does not constitute a trade sale - it is private. Their stance is they (CC) are simply introducing two private parties and that DK engineering the motor trader is simply also facillitating the sale between two private parties, despite being paid to assist in the sale of the vehicle. Therefore it's a private sale.

I see DK on the hook as a motor trader making a trade sale (not CC - important differenece).

I believe Consumer Contract regulations (combined with the distance selling regulations within it) would confirm this.

IMO a managed sale is a trade sale and fits under the umbrella of Consumer Contract Regulations - the managing agent being liable should it be clear they are a motor trader.

[Drclarke]

So you don’t get any comeback for the amount of money you pay the auction site if the car is misdescribed or the bloody engine falls out or ends up as stolen or with ownership issues??

Thanks but I’d rather deal with a dealer who I can yell at to fix any issues for the amount I am paying. This whole collecting cars thing sounds like gumtree with fees.

[9Elfer]

Drclarke said:

So you don’t get any comeback for the amount of money you pay the auction site if the car is misdescribed or the bloody engine falls out or ends up as stolen or with ownership issues??

Thanks but I’d rather deal with a dealer who I can yell at to fix any issues for the amount I am paying. This whole collecting cars thing sounds like gumtree with fees.

The Porsche 2.7RS is going to be interesting too. It’s IC (who have been selling the car for over 1.5 years) who is selling on the platform. IC and CC are both owned by Ed Lovett. It’s been flagged as ‘managed’ but how on earth that it’s not a trade sale is beyond me. IC by putting it through an auction means they aren’t selling it anymore? Beyond me.

[Ferruccio]

9Elfer said:

The Porsche 2.7RS is going to be interesting too. It’s IC (who have been selling the car for over 1.5 years) who is selling on the platform. IC and CC are both owned by Ed Lovett. It’s been flagged as ‘managed’ but how on earth that it’s not a trade sale is beyond me. IC by putting it through an auction means they aren’t selling it anymore? Beyond me.

That’s my point.
My view would be that most judges would just look through that and deem it to be a trade sale.
All litigation is uncertain, but I know which side of the argument I’d rather be on.

[9Elfer]

Ferruccio said:

That’s my point.
My view would be that most judges would just look through that and deem it to be a trade sale.
All litigation is uncertain, but I know which side of the argument I’d rather be on.

To me it demonstrates that the business is trying to wiggle out of its obligations as a dealer/trade.

As 21ATS put it - they want to get paid like a dealer sale but want to carry none of the protection that the law protects the consumer with. The action of creating a ‘manage’ category is a very ugly decision.

[21ATS]

9Elfer said:

To me it demonstrates that the business is trying to wiggle out of its obligations as a dealer/trade.

As 21ATS put it - they want to get paid like a dealer sale but want to carry none of the protection that the law protects the consumer with. The action of creating a ‘manage’ category is a very ugly decision.

This is the crux of the matter. The creation of this third category is designed to be misleading. Any sale on this platform can only be one of two status, either trade or private and that's it.

Describing it in any other manner is intentionally misleading.

I have a feeling IC operates in the same manner as CC, acting as a broker introducing two private parties. Happy to proved otherwise though.

[kevinon]

If it is just an ebay for cars, (facilitating buyer and seller), how come they don't have a version of the ebay protections for the buyer? If your cheap ebay purchase isn't as described, ebay have remedies.
https://pages.ebay.co.uk/ebay-money-back-guarantee...

But if you buy a car off CC and pay 6% fee, you are worse off?

I just don't get it.

[HIS LM]

I have used CC to sell 2 vehicles and I was very happy the whole process from start to end.

If you don't like it don't use it nobody is forcing your hand just stop whingeing !!