Discussion
jammy-git said:
Quite a few early cars now getting up towards 100k miles. I'd imagine this is when servicing and maintenance begins to get a bit more expensive.
I've been trying to guesstimate how low values are going to go. For several years the bottom of the market seemed to be in the £30k range, now in the last 12-18 months it's dipped into the £20k range.
I figure the cost of servicing/maintaining the older, more high mileage cars is going to play a significant factor in where the bottom of the market goes in the next few years.
It's funny, Astons seem to, at most, dip into the teens before nearly always going back up. Masers go down to single figures and can stay there for a decent while before slowly starting to climb once they hit classic status. No rhyme or reason to why one car or marque has better long term residuals over another.
I know a lot of people say the V8/V10 manual is a future classic, and I definitely agree. But I can't imagine there is a big market out there of people willing to drop £3k on a clutch change, or pay for an engine out job to fix the air con, or spend low four figures to replace brakes. That's before you consider the cost of replacing suspension components on the high milers.\
I suspect the cars that are currently £20kers will drop into the teens within the next 1-2 years. I suspect the bottom of the market will be low teens. Maybe even one or two tatty examples getting into four digits.
We are still a few years away from £20k R8s aren't we?I've been trying to guesstimate how low values are going to go. For several years the bottom of the market seemed to be in the £30k range, now in the last 12-18 months it's dipped into the £20k range.
I figure the cost of servicing/maintaining the older, more high mileage cars is going to play a significant factor in where the bottom of the market goes in the next few years.
It's funny, Astons seem to, at most, dip into the teens before nearly always going back up. Masers go down to single figures and can stay there for a decent while before slowly starting to climb once they hit classic status. No rhyme or reason to why one car or marque has better long term residuals over another.
I know a lot of people say the V8/V10 manual is a future classic, and I definitely agree. But I can't imagine there is a big market out there of people willing to drop £3k on a clutch change, or pay for an engine out job to fix the air con, or spend low four figures to replace brakes. That's before you consider the cost of replacing suspension components on the high milers.\
I suspect the cars that are currently £20kers will drop into the teens within the next 1-2 years. I suspect the bottom of the market will be low teens. Maybe even one or two tatty examples getting into four digits.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
jammy-git said:
Quite a few early cars now getting up towards 100k miles. I'd imagine this is when servicing and maintenance begins to get a bit more expensive.
I've been trying to guesstimate how low values are going to go. For several years the bottom of the market seemed to be in the £30k range, now in the last 12-18 months it's dipped into the £20k range.
I figure the cost of servicing/maintaining the older, more high mileage cars is going to play a significant factor in where the bottom of the market goes in the next few years.
It's funny, Astons seem to, at most, dip into the teens before nearly always going back up. Masers go down to single figures and can stay there for a decent while before slowly starting to climb once they hit classic status. No rhyme or reason to why one car or marque has better long term residuals over another.
I know a lot of people say the V8/V10 manual is a future classic, and I definitely agree. But I can't imagine there is a big market out there of people willing to drop £3k on a clutch change, or pay for an engine out job to fix the air con, or spend low four figures to replace brakes. That's before you consider the cost of replacing suspension components on the high milers.\
I suspect the cars that are currently £20kers will drop into the teens within the next 1-2 years. I suspect the bottom of the market will be low teens. Maybe even one or two tatty examples getting into four digits.
We are still a few years away from £20k R8s aren't we?I've been trying to guesstimate how low values are going to go. For several years the bottom of the market seemed to be in the £30k range, now in the last 12-18 months it's dipped into the £20k range.
I figure the cost of servicing/maintaining the older, more high mileage cars is going to play a significant factor in where the bottom of the market goes in the next few years.
It's funny, Astons seem to, at most, dip into the teens before nearly always going back up. Masers go down to single figures and can stay there for a decent while before slowly starting to climb once they hit classic status. No rhyme or reason to why one car or marque has better long term residuals over another.
I know a lot of people say the V8/V10 manual is a future classic, and I definitely agree. But I can't imagine there is a big market out there of people willing to drop £3k on a clutch change, or pay for an engine out job to fix the air con, or spend low four figures to replace brakes. That's before you consider the cost of replacing suspension components on the high milers.\
I suspect the cars that are currently £20kers will drop into the teens within the next 1-2 years. I suspect the bottom of the market will be low teens. Maybe even one or two tatty examples getting into four digits.
I purchased my 2010 V10 in 2017 at 24K miles, so clearly not at the bottom end of the market, but had a main dealer PPi done anyway. Within the first year of ownership, I spend over £4K in essential repairs.
jammy-git said:
Quite a few early cars now getting up towards 100k miles. I'd imagine this is when servicing and maintenance begins to get a bit more expensive.
I've been trying to guesstimate how low values are going to go. For several years the bottom of the market seemed to be in the £30k range, now in the last 12-18 months it's dipped into the £20k range.
I figure the cost of servicing/maintaining the older, more high mileage cars is going to play a significant factor in where the bottom of the market goes in the next few years.
It's funny, Astons seem to, at most, dip into the teens before nearly always going back up. Masers go down to single figures and can stay there for a decent while before slowly starting to climb once they hit classic status. No rhyme or reason to why one car or marque has better long term residuals over another.
I know a lot of people say the V8/V10 manual is a future classic, and I definitely agree. But I can't imagine there is a big market out there of people willing to drop £3k on a clutch change, or pay for an engine out job to fix the air con, or spend low four figures to replace brakes. That's before you consider the cost of replacing suspension components on the high milers.\
I suspect the cars that are currently £20kers will drop into the teens within the next 1-2 years. I suspect the bottom of the market will be low teens. Maybe even one or two tatty examples getting into four digits.
Lowest V8 values have been at £30k for the last 18-24 months - some are slightly lower (£29,995 etc.) but all are very high mileage or insurance rights offs.I've been trying to guesstimate how low values are going to go. For several years the bottom of the market seemed to be in the £30k range, now in the last 12-18 months it's dipped into the £20k range.
I figure the cost of servicing/maintaining the older, more high mileage cars is going to play a significant factor in where the bottom of the market goes in the next few years.
It's funny, Astons seem to, at most, dip into the teens before nearly always going back up. Masers go down to single figures and can stay there for a decent while before slowly starting to climb once they hit classic status. No rhyme or reason to why one car or marque has better long term residuals over another.
I know a lot of people say the V8/V10 manual is a future classic, and I definitely agree. But I can't imagine there is a big market out there of people willing to drop £3k on a clutch change, or pay for an engine out job to fix the air con, or spend low four figures to replace brakes. That's before you consider the cost of replacing suspension components on the high milers.\
I suspect the cars that are currently £20kers will drop into the teens within the next 1-2 years. I suspect the bottom of the market will be low teens. Maybe even one or two tatty examples getting into four digits.
As for the issues you mention, they are rarer than you think. A well known R8 tech has never seen an AC compressor fail on a v8 needing the engine to be removed (and he's seen hundreds of R8's in his time) yet it seems to brought up as a common failure when it clearly isn't - the issue is often sensor related. £3k on a supercar clutch isn't unreasonable IMHO same as £2k for front and rear discs/pads. Mag rides are common failures, 10k miles in my experience but there are cheaper alternatives.
I don't see a good, solid R8 being available for teens any time soon - think you'll be waiting a long time. Four digits will be for scrap only so now is a good time to buy but you get what you paid for!
I've been doing a lot of reading of forums and PH over the past few weeks. I've seen quite a few posts from 2-3 years ago where some were thinking the earliest R8s would be hitting £50-60k by 2020 because it's a future classic, the last of the proper NA manuals.
You can get a DB9 for low 20s now, or a 20 year old DB7 for low teens.
The NSX, which I think is probably best car to compare the R8 with in terms of residual values since it's a mass market manufacturer dipping it's toes into the supercar market before withdrawing a few years later (although there are four times the amount of R8s sold). Those values dipped down to the teens for a couple of years before shooting up recently.
Given the economy we're about to head into, I do think we could well see another sharp dip in values (not just R8s) which will result in the bottom falling further. We're also now getting into the range where people can perhaps afford the car but not the running costs. So I think in a year or so we'll start to see some cars in need of TLC which will make the bottom of the market appear even lower.
You can get a DB9 for low 20s now, or a 20 year old DB7 for low teens.
The NSX, which I think is probably best car to compare the R8 with in terms of residual values since it's a mass market manufacturer dipping it's toes into the supercar market before withdrawing a few years later (although there are four times the amount of R8s sold). Those values dipped down to the teens for a couple of years before shooting up recently.
Given the economy we're about to head into, I do think we could well see another sharp dip in values (not just R8s) which will result in the bottom falling further. We're also now getting into the range where people can perhaps afford the car but not the running costs. So I think in a year or so we'll start to see some cars in need of TLC which will make the bottom of the market appear even lower.
jammy-git said:
I've been doing a lot of reading of forums and PH over the past few weeks. I've seen quite a few posts from 2-3 years ago where some were thinking the earliest R8s would be hitting £50-60k by 2020 because it's a future classic, the last of the proper NA manuals.
You can get a DB9 for low 20s now, or a 20 year old DB7 for low teens.
The NSX, which I think is probably best car to compare the R8 with in terms of residual values since it's a mass market manufacturer dipping it's toes into the supercar market before withdrawing a few years later (although there are four times the amount of R8s sold). Those values dipped down to the teens for a couple of years before shooting up recently.
Given the economy we're about to head into, I do think we could well see another sharp dip in values (not just R8s) which will result in the bottom falling further. We're also now getting into the range where people can perhaps afford the car but not the running costs. So I think in a year or so we'll start to see some cars in need of TLC which will make the bottom of the market appear even lower.
You haven't answered the question about the £20k R8s you are seeing. Where are they?You can get a DB9 for low 20s now, or a 20 year old DB7 for low teens.
The NSX, which I think is probably best car to compare the R8 with in terms of residual values since it's a mass market manufacturer dipping it's toes into the supercar market before withdrawing a few years later (although there are four times the amount of R8s sold). Those values dipped down to the teens for a couple of years before shooting up recently.
Given the economy we're about to head into, I do think we could well see another sharp dip in values (not just R8s) which will result in the bottom falling further. We're also now getting into the range where people can perhaps afford the car but not the running costs. So I think in a year or so we'll start to see some cars in need of TLC which will make the bottom of the market appear even lower.
Your entire prediction is based on a current situation which I don't think exists.
Ah, sorry, missed your post.
You're right, I haven't seen any £20k R8s, but there have been quite a few in the 25-30k range.
I think it would be wrong to think that, because values stayed in the 30s range for several years, that it will take a long time for them to go into the low 20s. It seems there was a sudden dip in the last 12-18 months which saw the bottom end of the market go through the £30k barrier, probably due to the economic slow down caused by Brexit.
I think it would be slightly naive to think that the impending recession won't have a similar impact and see the bottom end of the market drop further. I guess the low mileage, well cared for examples will do better at holding their value, as such cars often do.
Maybe we'll see a quick bounce back, since many people are predicting a V-shaped recession. Maybe values won't drop as much as I think, if all these company directors with grants and government backed loans in their pockets look to invest in cars and see an R8 as good potential...
You're right, I haven't seen any £20k R8s, but there have been quite a few in the 25-30k range.
I think it would be wrong to think that, because values stayed in the 30s range for several years, that it will take a long time for them to go into the low 20s. It seems there was a sudden dip in the last 12-18 months which saw the bottom end of the market go through the £30k barrier, probably due to the economic slow down caused by Brexit.
I think it would be slightly naive to think that the impending recession won't have a similar impact and see the bottom end of the market drop further. I guess the low mileage, well cared for examples will do better at holding their value, as such cars often do.
Maybe we'll see a quick bounce back, since many people are predicting a V-shaped recession. Maybe values won't drop as much as I think, if all these company directors with grants and government backed loans in their pockets look to invest in cars and see an R8 as good potential...
jammy-git said:
Ah, sorry, missed your post.
You're right, I haven't seen any £20k R8s, but there have been quite a few in the 25-30k range.
I think it would be wrong to think that, because values stayed in the 30s range for several years, that it will take a long time for them to go into the low 20s. It seems there was a sudden dip in the last 12-18 months which saw the bottom end of the market go through the £30k barrier, probably due to the economic slow down caused by Brexit.
I think it would be slightly naive to think that the impending recession won't have a similar impact and see the bottom end of the market drop further. I guess the low mileage, well cared for examples will do better at holding their value, as such cars often do.
Maybe we'll see a quick bounce back, since many people are predicting a V-shaped recession. Maybe values won't drop as much as I think, if all these company directors with grants and government backed loans in their pockets look to invest in cars and see an R8 as good potential...
How many R8's have been produced ?You're right, I haven't seen any £20k R8s, but there have been quite a few in the 25-30k range.
I think it would be wrong to think that, because values stayed in the 30s range for several years, that it will take a long time for them to go into the low 20s. It seems there was a sudden dip in the last 12-18 months which saw the bottom end of the market go through the £30k barrier, probably due to the economic slow down caused by Brexit.
I think it would be slightly naive to think that the impending recession won't have a similar impact and see the bottom end of the market drop further. I guess the low mileage, well cared for examples will do better at holding their value, as such cars often do.
Maybe we'll see a quick bounce back, since many people are predicting a V-shaped recession. Maybe values won't drop as much as I think, if all these company directors with grants and government backed loans in their pockets look to invest in cars and see an R8 as good potential...
That is worldwide, around 50% were Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8#Production,_...
I couldn't find UK only sales figures.
I couldn't find UK only sales figures.
I’m just going to list what my 2008 v8 has needed in the first 18 months of ownership. It presently needs the oil cooler and clutch pipes doing which is £1500 once lockdown is over, they are weeping. Common fault. Once that is done the car is tip top.
Upgrades:
Carbon blades £1500
Stereo £2000
Retrofit cruise £400
Retrofit heated seat £400
Exhaust £2500
Maintenance:
4 tyres £1000
Maff, filters, carbon clean, brake fluid £1100
Battery £140
Service £600
Fix air con, brake light, strut, aux belt, brake switch £1200
Repair exhaust valve, lambda probe £750
Replace bad relays £75
Replace bonnet (70% goodwill from Audi) £900
Service £600
Fix cooling fan, 2 new struts, hand brake pads, rear fog lamp assembly, wiper blades £2400
None of this is that unusual on a 12 year old car. The struts are a bargain compared to the mag ride ones. I’ve always bought older cars as I prefer something better and the cost of repairs is still lower than depreciation on a newer car. Once they settle down and you address everything they are fine and I often keep them many years. Every car I’ve had has been like this. I can’t cheer anyone on buying an older R8 thinking it can be run on A3 money as I don’t believe that to be realistic even if some lucky ones or buyers of very low mileage cars have managed it.
Upgrades:
Carbon blades £1500
Stereo £2000
Retrofit cruise £400
Retrofit heated seat £400
Exhaust £2500
Maintenance:
4 tyres £1000
Maff, filters, carbon clean, brake fluid £1100
Battery £140
Service £600
Fix air con, brake light, strut, aux belt, brake switch £1200
Repair exhaust valve, lambda probe £750
Replace bad relays £75
Replace bonnet (70% goodwill from Audi) £900
Service £600
Fix cooling fan, 2 new struts, hand brake pads, rear fog lamp assembly, wiper blades £2400
None of this is that unusual on a 12 year old car. The struts are a bargain compared to the mag ride ones. I’ve always bought older cars as I prefer something better and the cost of repairs is still lower than depreciation on a newer car. Once they settle down and you address everything they are fine and I often keep them many years. Every car I’ve had has been like this. I can’t cheer anyone on buying an older R8 thinking it can be run on A3 money as I don’t believe that to be realistic even if some lucky ones or buyers of very low mileage cars have managed it.
jakesmith said:
I’m just going to list what my 2008 v8 has needed in the first 18 months of ownership. It presently needs the oil cooler and clutch pipes doing which is £1500 once lockdown is over, they are weeping. Common fault. Once that is done the car is tip top.
Upgrades:
Carbon blades £1500
Stereo £2000
Retrofit cruise £400
Retrofit heated seat £400
Exhaust £2500
Maintenance:
4 tyres £1000
Maff, filters, carbon clean, brake fluid £1100
Battery £140
Service £600
Fix air con, brake light, strut, aux belt, brake switch £1200
Repair exhaust valve, lambda probe £750
Replace bad relays £75
Replace bonnet (70% goodwill from Audi) £900
Service £600
Fix cooling fan, 2 new struts, hand brake pads, rear fog lamp assembly, wiper blades £2400
None of this is that unusual on a 12 year old car. The struts are a bargain compared to the mag ride ones. I’ve always bought older cars as I prefer something better and the cost of repairs is still lower than depreciation on a newer car. Once they settle down and you address everything they are fine and I often keep them many years. Every car I’ve had has been like this. I can’t cheer anyone on buying an older R8 thinking it can be run on A3 money as I don’t believe that to be realistic even if some lucky ones or buyers of very low mileage cars have managed it.
If you buy well you will get the carbon bits free :-)Upgrades:
Carbon blades £1500
Stereo £2000
Retrofit cruise £400
Retrofit heated seat £400
Exhaust £2500
Maintenance:
4 tyres £1000
Maff, filters, carbon clean, brake fluid £1100
Battery £140
Service £600
Fix air con, brake light, strut, aux belt, brake switch £1200
Repair exhaust valve, lambda probe £750
Replace bad relays £75
Replace bonnet (70% goodwill from Audi) £900
Service £600
Fix cooling fan, 2 new struts, hand brake pads, rear fog lamp assembly, wiper blades £2400
None of this is that unusual on a 12 year old car. The struts are a bargain compared to the mag ride ones. I’ve always bought older cars as I prefer something better and the cost of repairs is still lower than depreciation on a newer car. Once they settle down and you address everything they are fine and I often keep them many years. Every car I’ve had has been like this. I can’t cheer anyone on buying an older R8 thinking it can be run on A3 money as I don’t believe that to be realistic even if some lucky ones or buyers of very low mileage cars have managed it.
Mine needed a £768 service and nothing else really in my time. Saying that the insurance was £500+, tracker £215 and it was getting ready for pads at circa 400 quid. Thorough inspection deffo on a high miler.
200Plus Club said:
jakesmith said:
I’m just going to list what my 2008 v8 has needed in the first 18 months of ownership. It presently needs the oil cooler and clutch pipes doing which is £1500 once lockdown is over, they are weeping. Common fault. Once that is done the car is tip top.
Upgrades:
Carbon blades £1500
Stereo £2000
Retrofit cruise £400
Retrofit heated seat £400
Exhaust £2500
Maintenance:
4 tyres £1000
Maff, filters, carbon clean, brake fluid £1100
Battery £140
Service £600
Fix air con, brake light, strut, aux belt, brake switch £1200
Repair exhaust valve, lambda probe £750
Replace bad relays £75
Replace bonnet (70% goodwill from Audi) £900
Service £600
Fix cooling fan, 2 new struts, hand brake pads, rear fog lamp assembly, wiper blades £2400
None of this is that unusual on a 12 year old car. The struts are a bargain compared to the mag ride ones. I’ve always bought older cars as I prefer something better and the cost of repairs is still lower than depreciation on a newer car. Once they settle down and you address everything they are fine and I often keep them many years. Every car I’ve had has been like this. I can’t cheer anyone on buying an older R8 thinking it can be run on A3 money as I don’t believe that to be realistic even if some lucky ones or buyers of very low mileage cars have managed it.
If you buy well you will get the carbon bits free :-)Upgrades:
Carbon blades £1500
Stereo £2000
Retrofit cruise £400
Retrofit heated seat £400
Exhaust £2500
Maintenance:
4 tyres £1000
Maff, filters, carbon clean, brake fluid £1100
Battery £140
Service £600
Fix air con, brake light, strut, aux belt, brake switch £1200
Repair exhaust valve, lambda probe £750
Replace bad relays £75
Replace bonnet (70% goodwill from Audi) £900
Service £600
Fix cooling fan, 2 new struts, hand brake pads, rear fog lamp assembly, wiper blades £2400
None of this is that unusual on a 12 year old car. The struts are a bargain compared to the mag ride ones. I’ve always bought older cars as I prefer something better and the cost of repairs is still lower than depreciation on a newer car. Once they settle down and you address everything they are fine and I often keep them many years. Every car I’ve had has been like this. I can’t cheer anyone on buying an older R8 thinking it can be run on A3 money as I don’t believe that to be realistic even if some lucky ones or buyers of very low mileage cars have managed it.
Mine needed a £768 service and nothing else really in my time. Saying that the insurance was £500+, tracker £215 and it was getting ready for pads at circa 400 quid. Thorough inspection deffo on a high miler.
Keep well Chris
200Plus Club said:
:-)
The bills looming on some cars will easily top 5-10k maybe more especially if you let Audi price you the parts and labour.
I viewed a 60k mile car that had literally one service in 40k miles and that was a 150 quid oil change at a back street garage.
That's ridiculous. Surely they'd lose more in the value of the car than a few services would have cost them!?The bills looming on some cars will easily top 5-10k maybe more especially if you let Audi price you the parts and labour.
I viewed a 60k mile car that had literally one service in 40k miles and that was a 150 quid oil change at a back street garage.
k. I bought a 2016 S-Line A5 as a runabout, one had never been serviced an that was for sale at a main dealer. Ridiculous jammy-git said:
200Plus Club said:
:-)
The bills looming on some cars will easily top 5-10k maybe more especially if you let Audi price you the parts and labour.
I viewed a 60k mile car that had literally one service in 40k miles and that was a 150 quid oil change at a back street garage.
That's ridiculous. Surely they'd lose more in the value of the car than a few services would have cost them!?The bills looming on some cars will easily top 5-10k maybe more especially if you let Audi price you the parts and labour.
I viewed a 60k mile car that had literally one service in 40k miles and that was a 150 quid oil change at a back street garage.
200Plus Club said:
jammy-git said:
200Plus Club said:
:-)
The bills looming on some cars will easily top 5-10k maybe more especially if you let Audi price you the parts and labour.
I viewed a 60k mile car that had literally one service in 40k miles and that was a 150 quid oil change at a back street garage.
That's ridiculous. Surely they'd lose more in the value of the car than a few services would have cost them!?The bills looming on some cars will easily top 5-10k maybe more especially if you let Audi price you the parts and labour.
I viewed a 60k mile car that had literally one service in 40k miles and that was a 150 quid oil change at a back street garage.
200Plus Club said:
jammy-git said:
200Plus Club said:
:-)
The bills looming on some cars will easily top 5-10k maybe more especially if you let Audi price you the parts and labour.
I viewed a 60k mile car that had literally one service in 40k miles and that was a 150 quid oil change at a back street garage.
That's ridiculous. Surely they'd lose more in the value of the car than a few services would have cost them!?The bills looming on some cars will easily top 5-10k maybe more especially if you let Audi price you the parts and labour.
I viewed a 60k mile car that had literally one service in 40k miles and that was a 150 quid oil change at a back street garage.
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